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Author Topic: PETA and Porn  (Read 3591 times)
BjornBee
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« Reply #20 on: September 20, 2011, 04:37:08 PM »

kathy,
I'm not discussing whether prostitution should be legal or not.

I'm just acknowledging that prostitution is exploitative by the very nature of the business.

I equate politics as corrupt...by the very nature that it has ALWAYS operated.

To suggest that politics is not corrupt, or the prostitution is not exploitative, to me is the point I am making. I think they are.

To say the systems are bad, yet the people are unaffected, is questionable to me.

Sorry....to hold up one case of some women paying her way college, and make the statement that prostitution is not exploitative in nature, fails to acknowledge the many other women who continue to be exploited every day. And making it legal does not make exploitation go away.

By the very nature of you suggesting making it legal would make all my concerns go away, you also validate that things like exploitation is real. My point is that making it legal or government regulated probably will not change the number of exploited women and girls.
« Last Edit: September 20, 2011, 04:58:46 PM by BjornBee » Logged

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« Reply #21 on: September 20, 2011, 05:01:51 PM »

You know I find the discution funny seeing that we are all beekeepers and the first trade very well could have been for honey.

I still think that was a even trade honey for honey.

I admit there is exploitation but there is exploitation in most industries I don't think the prostitute needs any more protection than the day laborer or fruit picker or poor beekeeper that you getting screw by import honey. They are all getting screw just the prostitute is the only one that might enjoy it (that is crude but true). I feel for everyone that is miss treated by anyone when it comes to a job I could introduce you to my uncle the head of the local out of Granite City, IL or my granddad that had the same job he does now. Unionize the prostitutes wait didn't they do that in Nevada.

Wait a second darn us poor beekeepers at one time we could trade honey for _______ and now its just 1.50 a pound.

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iddee
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« Reply #22 on: September 20, 2011, 06:19:17 PM »

What's this place going to be like in Jan.?
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« Reply #23 on: September 20, 2011, 06:24:00 PM »

Quote
What's this place going to be like in Jan.?

 beemaster = Rules   evil

BB you are to absolute in trying to evaluate my positions. it's always interesting to hear other opinions, but just because you think a thing, it is not so.

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.....The greatest changes occur in their country without their cooperation. They are not even aware of precisely what has taken place. They suspect it; they have heard of the event by chance. More than that, they are unconcerned with the fortunes of their village, the safety of their streets, the fate of their church and its vestry. They think that such things have nothing to do with them, that they belong to a powerful stranger called “the government.” They enjoy these goods as tenants, without a sense of ownership, and never give a thought to how they might be improved.....

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wayne
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« Reply #24 on: September 20, 2011, 06:32:28 PM »

   <<<<  but just because you think a thing, it is not so. >>>>

  AND THIS IS TRUE FOR BOTH OF YOU.

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kathyp
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« Reply #25 on: September 20, 2011, 07:00:08 PM »

Quote
AND THIS IS TRUE FOR BOTH OF YOU.

fair enough.  i never want to be accused of being overly dogmatic....well, almost never.....  Wink
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.....The greatest changes occur in their country without their cooperation. They are not even aware of precisely what has taken place. They suspect it; they have heard of the event by chance. More than that, they are unconcerned with the fortunes of their village, the safety of their streets, the fate of their church and its vestry. They think that such things have nothing to do with them, that they belong to a powerful stranger called “the government.” They enjoy these goods as tenants, without a sense of ownership, and never give a thought to how they might be improved.....

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BjornBee
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« Reply #26 on: September 20, 2011, 08:51:58 PM »

I'm really tired of the toe tappers from the peanut gallery, always claiming some big argument everytime two strong willed folks having differing opinions. Holy crap! Did me and kathy start calling each other names? Did we start swearing at each other. Did we denigrate each other? No. We both explained our own feelings and positions.

As for the "just because you think a thing, it is not so"

Excuse me. If I think something is exploitative....then in my world, and what counts to me, it is exploiting. I said "I think they are" and such comments as "is questionable to me", in explaining my position. I never said you were wrong. I never said you were stupid. I said what I feel, and think.

Sorry if some feel the need to think that this equates to some nasty discussion with flame throwers everytime two people have opposing views.

Geesh...I though we were bunch of adults here. Having folks paint a picture much worse than it really is, is not good for the casual reader or the overall forum.

People make (or fabricate) way bigger issues, than the discussion ever could.

Maybe we should say "Just because you think it's a nasty argument, does not mean it really is".  grin And just because you think it is in your world, does not mean it needs to be passed on to everyone else.
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iddee
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« Reply #27 on: September 20, 2011, 09:06:00 PM »

WOW. If I'm the peanut gallery you are referring to, I can't wait to see the reaction I get when I try to stir the pot. It should be totally hilarious.

I'm not sure I am, tho, since I didn't really understand 3/4 of your rant.  I dunno
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"Listen to the mustn'ts, child. Listen to the don'ts. Listen to the shouldn'ts, the impossibles, the won'ts. Listen to the never haves, then listen close to me . . . Anything can happen, child. Anything can be"

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BjornBee
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« Reply #28 on: September 20, 2011, 09:21:10 PM »

WOW. If I'm the peanut gallery you are referring to, I can't wait to see the reaction I get when I try to stir the pot. It should be totally hilarious.

I'm not sure I am, tho, since I didn't really understand 3/4 of your rant.  I dunno

I don't have the power to put you in a peanut gallery. In my mind, yes I can. But for you to be placed in the peanut gallery, you must allow me to do so. If you thunk I'm talking to you, then your in the peanut gallery only based on your willingness to think you are there.  grin Did you get that?

See....this is part of the problem. People don't understand the posts, misinterpret what they are reading, base comments on what they don't understand, and sit back and throw rocks, or put fuel on the fire, claiming two folks are blasting each other. How can you even respond if you don't understand 3/4 of the post?

I'll try to keep the words smaller next time.  shocked
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iddee
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« Reply #29 on: September 20, 2011, 09:33:28 PM »

""I'll try to keep the words smaller next time.""

Thanks..

My little peanut brain won't pick up on them thar 35 cent words. Ya got to use the dime ones on me.  tongue grin

Las week ah cudden even spel cumputa espert. Now ah is one. How's that?? Ah can even mak mi own postes, widout mi wifs halp.
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"Listen to the mustn'ts, child. Listen to the don'ts. Listen to the shouldn'ts, the impossibles, the won'ts. Listen to the never haves, then listen close to me . . . Anything can happen, child. Anything can be"

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BjornBee
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« Reply #30 on: September 20, 2011, 09:50:19 PM »

Ok, that's enough iddee.

Now it's time to see how many folks get on here and claim we are flame throwing at each other. Heck, we might even get a few to send the moderators some threatening calls for them leaving to go elsewhere.  rolleyes

Next time, we can reverse the rolls. You start and I'll take the position you are nasty. If we throw in a few mentions of "M.B.", we can really make em go crazy!  grin

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iddee
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« Reply #31 on: September 20, 2011, 10:02:12 PM »

Till next time.

Nite, John Boy.

Nite, Elizabeth.

Nite, everybody.
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"Listen to the mustn'ts, child. Listen to the don'ts. Listen to the shouldn'ts, the impossibles, the won'ts. Listen to the never haves, then listen close to me . . . Anything can happen, child. Anything can be"

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kathyp
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« Reply #32 on: September 20, 2011, 10:42:46 PM »

nite daddy
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.....The greatest changes occur in their country without their cooperation. They are not even aware of precisely what has taken place. They suspect it; they have heard of the event by chance. More than that, they are unconcerned with the fortunes of their village, the safety of their streets, the fate of their church and its vestry. They think that such things have nothing to do with them, that they belong to a powerful stranger called “the government.” They enjoy these goods as tenants, without a sense of ownership, and never give a thought to how they might be improved.....

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« Reply #33 on: September 20, 2011, 11:03:49 PM »

BB I got a good laugh out of all of it sitting here in the peanut gallery.   grin Way off topic have to admit but some good reading.  Have to admit though a lot more of this debate you guys are having has more to do with the different up bringings.  Now I personally can see and reason with both of your arguments.  Kathy makes a good logical argument for it but on the other hand your more of a feller of morals.  Both to be equally respected and both right depending on which camp your in.  You guys were just lobbing mashmellows at one another.  Goodness knows we have had our fair share of people who can't discuss something and it degrades into your stupid and you have cooties.   rolleyes

As for the subject of prostitution I'm more in Kathy's camp here making it legal would help to push out the points your making as to why it's so bad.  Morally we are all taught it is wrong and that's exactly why I also respect your side of it and see where you come from too.  But when something is illegal you make it go black market.  If it's illegal and someone wrongs you on a business deal kinda makes it hard to take them into court.  So if one can't deal with it in the courts how should one go about dealing with it?  I know this example is a little extreme but I think it may be the best way to see how you deal with such things.  We only need to look at Mexico and the drug trade.  People are killed every day because there is no way to get damages but to kill or disfigure those you feel have wronged you.  While it isn't this extreme in prostitution it happens every day too.  We should be able to relate being the second oldest profession of beekeeping.  Hear of people every day breaking the law to keep bees in a town where they are not allowed. 

As for PETA what do you guys have against People for the Eithical Treatment of Airplanes?   evil
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BjornBee
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« Reply #34 on: September 21, 2011, 06:49:25 AM »

Hankdog,
Good post.

But.....

I never said whether it should or should not be legal.

I'm pointing out that it is exploitative in nature. And this counters it being "great" for women.

As libertarians, many feel that ALL drugs should be legal also. But does that mean we should ignore the consequences and downside to what "crack" has to offer? Just because it is legal, or one may feel that it should be each individuals right to do what they want, does not dismiss or change the fact that crack is harmful. Whether prostitution is legal or not, it has it's negative side. I just can't simply dismiss prostitution or the negative impacts to women, based on rationale of whether it's legal or not. Just as rationalizing or ignoring the downside of crack, whether sold at the convenience store and taxed, would be any better. Libertarians feel both prostitution and drugs should be legal. And that is fine, But lets not sugar coat the pitfalls of both and suggest that both are good for you. The freedoms of libertarian thought, means folks can make the decisions for themselves. it does not change what may or may not be harmful.

Libertarians.....where suggesting cracked up prostitutes are the career choice of women!

Sorry....I don't think so. I may feel that a women can make that choice. But I don't need to say it would be good for you. That does not mean I'm against either. But that does not I need to glamorize or suggest it good for you either. Prostitution is not something I would promote or suggest for those less fortunate, that this is the way to get ahead in life.

Why everyone keeps thinking that making prostitution legal would make the underside go away, is equivalent to thinking that making drugs legal would make crack nonaddictive. It does not work that way.
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hankdog1
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« Reply #35 on: September 21, 2011, 07:45:20 AM »

BjornBee your exactly right in the matter.  To be honest with you though for some women I think it boils down to the idea that through porn on the internet and such it is looking more and more glamerous.  The point I was trying to make is that by making the profession illegal we bring more violance and even slavery into it.  The real things we are trying to prevent.  Prohibition gives a very good example of this more violance, crime, and rot gut.  More people probably died over bad booze in those years then from the crime and violance.  We repealed it while we still have problems with people being alcohoalics people aren't dieing because they stopped by a speak easy and had a glass of bathtub gin. 

Solving such a problem comes down to what makes you feel so strongly on the subject.  We need to teach our kids morals at home, at school, and any chance we get.  The downside to most of this is the people that really get hurt by such things aren't the women that choose this profession but the mother, fathers, sons, and daugthers of these women.  It would be really nice to live in a utopia where everyone was held to a high moral standard and people worked hard to live up to it.  But I feel that no matter how hard we work towards the objective there will always be some that fall through the cracks.  Pimps are always going to be around along with the girls they pimp out. 

Of course there are other forms of prostitution that are very legal.  A cousin of mine married a gal who's mom and dad own an adoption agency.  There are women that they work with that stay knocked up.  Seems odd that if a woman got pregnant by accident that she would learn from her mistakes.  They do learn one thing that staying knocked up is like wellfare the adoption parents pay for the medical bills a place to live and other bills.  Basically it's a free ride for them for 9 months out of the year.  Now when you look at it in my personal opinion that woman is just as wrong and for many other reasons even more wrong then prositutes.

Bjorn gotta say enjoying this post.  Have to give you props you make a very well articulated argument.  Makes me think we should have been lawyers instead of beekeepers.  We need more disscussions like this on here instead of the ones where it seems like once they have no more points to make it seems people revert back to grade school.  BTW just in case that's where this ends up I'm gonna say it before ya get the chance.  I'm rubber your glue whatever you say bounces off me and sticks on you.  lol  Hope ya have a good day.   grin
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Irwin
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« Reply #36 on: September 21, 2011, 11:59:28 PM »

What's this place going to be like in Jan.?
It's started you better get ready.
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« Reply #37 on: September 22, 2011, 06:19:27 PM »

Nah Irwin this is a discussion it's when people run out of stuff to write and revert to your stupid or your momma wears combat boots that ya gotta watch out buddy.  lol
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« Reply #38 on: September 22, 2011, 06:33:27 PM »

Quote
your momma wears combat boots


watch that now...some mamas did wear combat boots....
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.....The greatest changes occur in their country without their cooperation. They are not even aware of precisely what has taken place. They suspect it; they have heard of the event by chance. More than that, they are unconcerned with the fortunes of their village, the safety of their streets, the fate of their church and its vestry. They think that such things have nothing to do with them, that they belong to a powerful stranger called “the government.” They enjoy these goods as tenants, without a sense of ownership, and never give a thought to how they might be improved.....

 Alexis de Tocqueville
Irwin
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« Reply #39 on: September 22, 2011, 11:26:37 PM »

LMAO cheer
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