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Author Topic: PETA and Porn  (Read 3505 times)
Irwin
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« on: September 20, 2011, 07:30:52 AM »

http://www.reuters.com/article/2011/09/19/us-pornography-peta-idUSTRE78H1IR20110919
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« Reply #1 on: September 20, 2011, 07:51:22 AM »

I loved the part when PETA explains that the paid models and women are not be exploited, because "They are here voluntarily (being paid).

I bet that excuse has been tried many times trying to explain prostitution. Hey, I didn't force that young lady to be here. (I just dangled the hundred dollar bills, and these poor girls just were more than willing to take it!")

You dangle enough cash, and of course you can get the hungry and needy to do anything.

Through time, the same exploited reasoning of "Hey....I'm not keeping them here! They can leave anytime they want!" has been used on blacks, Indians, and a host of slave like labor.

Just because someone shows up and gets paid, does not dismiss the reality that PETA exploits women.

But remember, time and again, they have outright claimed that animals rights trump human life.

There are enough other animal rights groups and worthwhile efforts out there working for animals. (No kill shelters, adoption services, and animal rescue networks,) Why anyone would join, support, or associate with PETA is beyond me.
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« Reply #2 on: September 20, 2011, 09:55:56 AM »

excuse me, I need to vomit.
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kathyp
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« Reply #3 on: September 20, 2011, 11:44:03 AM »

i don't really consider prostitution, exploitation.  think about it.  prostitution throughout history has been a way for women to better themselves.  it has even been an honorable profession in some societies.  it has been a way for women to remove themselves from poverty and even "marry up".

now....the woman who is doing it and giving all her money to a pimp, or supporting a drug habit, is probably not in the same class as a Geisha.... 
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.....The greatest changes occur in their country without their cooperation. They are not even aware of precisely what has taken place. They suspect it; they have heard of the event by chance. More than that, they are unconcerned with the fortunes of their village, the safety of their streets, the fate of their church and its vestry. They think that such things have nothing to do with them, that they belong to a powerful stranger called “the government.” They enjoy these goods as tenants, without a sense of ownership, and never give a thought to how they might be improved.....

 Alexis de Tocqueville
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« Reply #4 on: September 20, 2011, 12:43:04 PM »

i don't really consider prostitution, exploitation.  think about it.  prostitution throughout history has been a way for women to better themselves.  it has even been an honorable profession in some societies.  it has been a way for women to remove themselves from poverty and even "marry up".

now....the woman who is doing it and giving all her money to a pimp, or supporting a drug habit, is probably not in the same class as a Geisha....  

Sorry Kathy, for the few that have benefitted from prostitution, far MORE have been injured, enslaved, and killed, due to prostitution. You defining the basic right of a women to sell her body as she fits, and to be able to benefit from such choices. And I agree if that was the depth of the matter.

However,
Prostitution is not about middle aged hags being able to feed themselves and their kids. Much of prostitution is about young girls, exploiting the less fortunate, and enslaving them in a system they can not break free. Teen runaways, contract workers brought here on false promises of a better life, and girls in for nothing more than making it to the next day, is a much larger picture.

Yes, we can bundle escort services into nice defined call girls who are providing a service, paying college tuition, and putting food on the table.

But for many, it's about a young girl being exploited due to circumstances beyond her control, making near pedophiles (johns) heroes to you, by the mere fact they have cash to "better" the life of the girl they are paying.

Prostitution, with few exceptions, IS exploitation on some level. Sorry you have to pull "Geisha" out as an example of the positives of prostitution.

I'm not against prostitution. If it was legal, most exploitation would be stopped. But as long as it is illegal, exploitation will continue. And to say that this activity under the circumstances it now operates, is not exploitative, is not correct to me.

Sorry....I will not be encouraging my girls to become prostitutes to get a leg up (no pun intended) on life.
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« Reply #5 on: September 20, 2011, 12:56:20 PM »

BTW kathy....Can you approve this slogan I would like to use and give proper credit to you?

Prostitution - A great way for women to get ahead.

or

Prostitution - A great way to get a leg up.

or

Prostitution - A way for women to better themselves!

I don't want to miss anything here. So make it clear which you prefer.

I will personally pay for a bumper sticker for you.  As long as you agree to place it on your car or truck.  grin

Let me know which slogan you want.

And I thought today was going to be slow.  Smiley
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« Reply #6 on: September 20, 2011, 01:01:15 PM »

Everyone have the right to an opinion, and in my opinion I think this should not degenerate into an argument.
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kathyp
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« Reply #7 on: September 20, 2011, 01:04:35 PM »

there is the potential for exploitation in all things.  in factories in this country, workers are protected by labor laws.  in china, workers are not and in fact, many work in conditions that we would consider slavery.  does that make factory work bad?  no.  it makes those who enslave others for factory work bad.  

in many places prostitution is slavery and even children are used.  that does not make prostitution inherently bad, but those who exploit women, children, and even men/boys, are.  

prostitution exists in all states.  i would rather see it done as in Nevada, than in the back alleys of other cities.....or even the upscale services that risk both the girl and the customer becoming a criminal for practicing an ancient profession.

that's my libertarian bent showing, i guess.

and no, i wouldn't encourage my daughter to choose that profession, but i know a doc who put herself though med school that way.  she had no debt when she was done and is now married with children.
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.....The greatest changes occur in their country without their cooperation. They are not even aware of precisely what has taken place. They suspect it; they have heard of the event by chance. More than that, they are unconcerned with the fortunes of their village, the safety of their streets, the fate of their church and its vestry. They think that such things have nothing to do with them, that they belong to a powerful stranger called “the government.” They enjoy these goods as tenants, without a sense of ownership, and never give a thought to how they might be improved.....

 Alexis de Tocqueville
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« Reply #8 on: September 20, 2011, 01:06:03 PM »

take the word 'great' out and it's your choice.   evil  i would not put the bumper sticker on my truck because at my age....it would just be sad....
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.....The greatest changes occur in their country without their cooperation. They are not even aware of precisely what has taken place. They suspect it; they have heard of the event by chance. More than that, they are unconcerned with the fortunes of their village, the safety of their streets, the fate of their church and its vestry. They think that such things have nothing to do with them, that they belong to a powerful stranger called “the government.” They enjoy these goods as tenants, without a sense of ownership, and never give a thought to how they might be improved.....

 Alexis de Tocqueville
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« Reply #9 on: September 20, 2011, 01:37:29 PM »

Prostitution is not the problem which has to be dealt with separately. It is only one of the symptoms of our sick society.
A great American seaman Henry George exposed the root of the problems and proposed THE solution.
His book of 1891 Progress and Poverty is available on-line.
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« Reply #10 on: September 20, 2011, 02:04:24 PM »

ok, but only if property owners are the only ones allowed to vote. 

i have not read the book, but from skimming the various synopsis, the problem seems that he didn't take into account that the free market does correct itself if it is not interfered with.  the left has fits about boom and bust, but it is a natural occurrence in a free market.  the problem in the cycle is that the government wants to "fix" things and thus disrupts the cycle.  also remember when this was written.  you did not have the majority established middle class (land owning) that we have now.  that did not occur until post ww2.

housing is a good example.  if the govt had stayed out of it, the housing market would have bottomed out already.  those who had been priced out of the market would have a great selection of homes to choose from.  those who lost, could begin to recover.  those who own property would have some sense of what it was worth...

because the government chose to "help", we have families who wish to purchase homes still waiting for the bottom, banks that don't know the value of what they are holding, empty homes becoming drug houses, people living in foreclosures and paying nothing, and a still unstable market.
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.....The greatest changes occur in their country without their cooperation. They are not even aware of precisely what has taken place. They suspect it; they have heard of the event by chance. More than that, they are unconcerned with the fortunes of their village, the safety of their streets, the fate of their church and its vestry. They think that such things have nothing to do with them, that they belong to a powerful stranger called “the government.” They enjoy these goods as tenants, without a sense of ownership, and never give a thought to how they might be improved.....

 Alexis de Tocqueville
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« Reply #11 on: September 20, 2011, 02:38:46 PM »

because the government chose to "help", we have families who wish to purchase homes still waiting for the bottom, banks that don't know the value of what they are holding, empty homes becoming drug houses, people living in foreclosures and paying nothing, and a still unstable market.

Well said Kathyp.....if the government kept it's nose out of everyones personal business we would be much better off,  it is bloated and much too intrusive.
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« Reply #12 on: September 20, 2011, 02:58:44 PM »

i have not read the book, but from skimming the various synopsis, the problem seems that he didn't take into account ...
As Leo Tolstoy said: "The chief weapon against the teaching of Henry George was that which is always used against irrefutable and self-evident truths. This method, which is still being applied in relation to George, was that of hushing up .... People do not argue with the teaching of George, they simply do not know it."
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« Reply #13 on: September 20, 2011, 02:59:34 PM »

PETA has succeeded in their REAL goal; getting attention.

No, I don't approve either, but that is the way the modern media works.
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« Reply #14 on: September 20, 2011, 03:19:29 PM »

Well kathy, I consider myself a libertarian also. Do I want government out of my life as much as possible...sure. But to take it to the point that being a libertarian equates to thinking prostitution is good for women.....I don't think so.

It's kind of like politicians. Are politicians just for the sake of being a politician, automatically corrupt, evil , or exploitative? Some would say no. Others, givens the historical value of what politics is, and always has been, IS corrupt by the very nature of politics. It is hard to separate politics, politicians, and the nature as how they do business. Handing out money to the needy, the less fortunate, and those willing to get on their knees for it, is one group exploiting another. That is the nature of politics.

And it closely resembles to me, the very nature that if men on one side have handfuls of money, and offer it to those who many times need it, there is a degree of exploitation.

I would say that politicians because of the nature of the business of politics, is exploitative and corrupt. And I would say that for a population that 30-50% live below the poverty level, that a system of prostitution, who on side side (those with money) can buy services from those who need money, this is exploitation on some level.

Funny you mention the doctor. It is a shame she had no other means to pay for college. Perhaps she could of just slept with the college professor for tuition and grades. I'm sure you feel with your libertarian views that a college professor in positions of power, demanding every freshmen sleep with him to get a good grade, is alright also. After all, they are both adults.

I see exploitation whether it be money, influence, or anything else, held over another person of need, as wrong.

I would rather have women give away sex for free. And not do so out of need. Whether it be from a john offering money, or a professor doling out grades. Power and money over peoples lives, is not good. It is exploitation.

You somehow equate prostitution with sex and a persons right. Like saying that elected officials are just guys doing their job. I see prostitution as a system of exploitation, just as politics is corrupt exploitative also. Hard to separate out the good and bad.
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« Reply #15 on: September 20, 2011, 03:48:05 PM »

Okay I will say I have just scanned your comments so don't kill me for this.

I LLLLLOOOOOOOOVVVVVEEEEEEE IT!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

lol
lol

This is just what the world needs (God help us) this is what we need. lol

All I can judge this on is its going to be just like the peta games and I do play them. I mean who cant love a game where you rescue Pamela Anderson for me the Bloody McDonalds corp.

With that said the game plays like this
play for a minute then shows you pictures of chickens being killed.
I am sick and twisted I dont have a problem one with playing the game. Makes me want chicken nuggets.

Okay the porn  grin 15 year old doing what they do looking at porn every 3rd pic is of fluffy having the hell beat out her. How long do yall think it will take before the 15 year old has to beat the hell out of fluffy to get off. lol

So screw the women they don't scare me its the dude getting his fun looking a ta ta s and watching animals get gutted at the same time.  Now that SOB has problems can we say cereal killer in training.
Anyone that has ever been abused can tell you how easy it is to screw up someone with sexual stimulation and subversive messages linked. They might want to help the puppies but I will bet they create guys that do things that are just horrible to puppies.

I have wondered for years if that place is run by some dude in the background that really hates animals.
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« Reply #16 on: September 20, 2011, 04:00:33 PM »

you need to watch those assumptions.

i don't believe just because someone chooses to enter politics it follows that they are corrupt.  they certainly can be.  it is our job as their employers to make sure they are not, and to get rid of them when they are.  if we don't do that, we are as guilty of the corruption.

the woman or man who sleeps their way to a better grade is dishonest.  so is the professor.  never mind the implied threat that if she doesn't put out, the grade will be withheld.  now...if an adult student sleeps with a professor and there are no expectations, that's another thing.

as for the doc, i'm sure she could have take out a loan.  she chose not to do that.  i don't have a problem with her choice even though it wouldn't be mine.


 
Quote
who on side side (those with money) can buy services from those who need money, this is exploitation on some level.
why?  how is it any different than any other service we pay for?  the kid down the road wants to earn money for a game.  i want my lawn mowed and it's 90 degrees.  i offer him money to do a dirty job and he agrees that it's worth his time and sweat to do it.

 
Quote
And it closely resembles to me, the very nature that if men on one side have handfuls of money, and offer it to those who many times need it, there is a degree of exploitation.

 do you consider being employed = with being exploited?
i am not suggesting that women go out and choose prostitution as their career, but a regulated and legal system takes the concerns that you have out of the equation, and allows women who want to make that choice, a way to do it legally....and more safely.  and lets face it, it's a choice with an expiration date.  probably don't see a lot of  women staying in the business all the way to SSI.
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.....The greatest changes occur in their country without their cooperation. They are not even aware of precisely what has taken place. They suspect it; they have heard of the event by chance. More than that, they are unconcerned with the fortunes of their village, the safety of their streets, the fate of their church and its vestry. They think that such things have nothing to do with them, that they belong to a powerful stranger called “the government.” They enjoy these goods as tenants, without a sense of ownership, and never give a thought to how they might be improved.....

 Alexis de Tocqueville
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« Reply #17 on: September 20, 2011, 04:04:31 PM »

we did get OT a little, didn't we  smiley

PETA is messed up.  i have had run ins with them in the past.  it's like the repository for every warped personality and sexually repressed misfit on earth.  you can't even have a logical conversation with them.  it's no surprise that they would choose to do  a site like this.  they all seem to be morally bankrupt..... along the lines of Hitler.
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.....The greatest changes occur in their country without their cooperation. They are not even aware of precisely what has taken place. They suspect it; they have heard of the event by chance. More than that, they are unconcerned with the fortunes of their village, the safety of their streets, the fate of their church and its vestry. They think that such things have nothing to do with them, that they belong to a powerful stranger called “the government.” They enjoy these goods as tenants, without a sense of ownership, and never give a thought to how they might be improved.....

 Alexis de Tocqueville
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« Reply #18 on: September 20, 2011, 04:19:44 PM »

I mean think about it.

I bet the site will be free or very cheap.

So 12 year old say boy or girl get on there yeah kids never see porn online ha ha.

This is their first real site of true hardcore porn girl doing you feel in the blank then pic of dead puppy you know how twisted you could make that 12 year old and dont think they will quit looking because of the dead puppy. Remember sex is the best thing a 12 year old has to look forward too its better than Santa and if when I was young and didnt know better I had to look at dead puppies to look at pretty girls doing well. I would have killed the puppies myself if I thought she would do it to me.
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« Reply #19 on: September 20, 2011, 04:23:42 PM »

I know what I am saying is extreme but it is the truth.

People really need to never give peta another dime for this one.

Its just flat wrong.



Oh and KathyP

One thing I need to say us fat guys need love too sometimes green is the only way you can get that lol.
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