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Author Topic: It's a start. Let's hope the other 49 follow suit.  (Read 6131 times)
iddee
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« Reply #40 on: September 23, 2011, 07:15:42 PM »

If we go broke, maybe we can elect someone who will cut the garbage spending rather than the needed spending and get the lazy ones back to work. You'd be surprised how many "so called disabled" men would find a way to work if they were hungry and cold.
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"Listen to the mustn'ts, child. Listen to the don'ts. Listen to the shouldn'ts, the impossibles, the won'ts. Listen to the never haves, then listen close to me . . . Anything can happen, child. Anything can be"

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« Reply #41 on: September 23, 2011, 07:21:08 PM »

Hee Hee Iddee,
Can you imagine the outcry if they had a public works program for recipients of government money? We could get a lot of cleanup done on roadways and parks and other public properties. grin
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iddee
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« Reply #42 on: September 23, 2011, 07:37:52 PM »

WPA worked, didn't it? Cheesy
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"Listen to the mustn'ts, child. Listen to the don'ts. Listen to the shouldn'ts, the impossibles, the won'ts. Listen to the never haves, then listen close to me . . . Anything can happen, child. Anything can be"

*Shel Silverstein*
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« Reply #43 on: September 23, 2011, 07:48:02 PM »

I'm still here Wink

I "whizz" in your pond if your pond is about to go broke and threaten the entire world economy because some teabaggers hate your president and decided to block his every move.
I do "whizz" in my own pond quite a lot since we  have "Mini-Bush" elected right now in our country.

How dare you say I'm evil when you have republicans cheering executions ? How hypocrite of you.
What about O'Reilly and Glenn Beck making daily incendiary comments on public TV ?
I got almost banned for my tongue-in-cheek comment.

Drug testing welfare people == another populist move to cure symptoms and not the underlying cause.
Offer them courses, make them go to interviews/job offers and cut their checks after 4-5 years.

On a side note, birth control such as prayers and absenteeism, however popular they may be, DO NOT WORK. This is another factor that adds people on welfare.

Neither democrats and especially not republicans believe in small businesses anymore. Corporations, through their donations and lobbying create and influence laws. Your politicians simply follow.

You have billionaires in your own country publicly stating that they pay less taxes then the average american.
Teabaggers who are raging over taxing millionaires is the cherry on the sundae. They would rather cut funds for education rather than tax the ultra rich.  huh

About drug usage, your whole "war on drugs" is a monumental failure, unless you look at it from the perspective of weapon dealers and military industry. In that case it is a amazing success since you were able to shift massive amount of tax payer money into their pockets.

Perhaps this is why you will stick to "drugs are bad, evil, demons temping you" theories but why don't you look at this issue from another angle ? i.e. being a disease (health) ?

Seems to me like you will be whipping the uneducated and the poor *again*.  whip

I'm perfectly aware what teabagging means.  cheesy

Ban me if you must, I'll swarm in other forums. bee

edit:
typos...
« Last Edit: September 23, 2011, 08:14:53 PM by mushmushi » Logged
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« Reply #44 on: September 23, 2011, 08:20:28 PM »

Hannity and Beck are not on this forum doing that stuff.You were.Abstinence(refraining from sex) is 100 percent effective against pregnancy.
The socialist experiments in  this country is exactly why we are broke.
We have spent more on the war on poverty than any nation in the world. In doing so it has created a multi generational dependency class in this country.
 I think a lot of the welfare recipients are well educated. Educated to live off the teats of the working swine.
For those that truly need a hand up,give it to them. But far too many have seen it become a handout.And far too many of us see people who are completely capable of being productive members of society living off the the backs of others.The socialist Utopia does not exist. Except for those living off of others.
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kathyp
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« Reply #45 on: September 23, 2011, 08:43:19 PM »

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I got almost banned for my tongue-in-cheek comment.

no one would ban you for your opinion.  you might want to remember that tongue and cheek does not alway translate in writing and since you choose to continue using words like "teabagger", your choice of words is still unacceptable to me.

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because some teabaggers hate your president and decided to block his every move.


if you are going to write about American politics, you should pay more attention.  for the first 2 years of this presidency, he had the majority in both houses of congress.  the republicans did not have enough votes even to slow down his agenda.  what he did in those first 2 years is all his and his liberal congress.

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How dare you say I'm evil when you have republicans cheering executions ? How hypocrite of you.

i think the word you wanted was hypocritical.  who said you were evil?    what makes you think it was republicans cheering that execution, or the one that took place the same night in TX?  what do you have against executions of criminals for capitol crimes?  what business is it of yours anyway?


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Offer them courses, make them go to interviews/job offers and cut their checks after 4-5 years
.

do you think we have not done this?  there are a few who will take advantage of these programs, but they are not the drug users and the lazy.  why work when the gov't will hand you a check with no strings attached?  the whole idea of the welfare state was to try and treat the symptoms.  support single women with children, give people a chance to get educated, give them a "hand up".  it has not worked.  time for a new plan.  and....if those poor people are not doing drugs, what do they have to worry about?  if they are, giving them money is only adding to the problem.  we are helping them by not paying them to sit around and do drugs.

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You have billionaires in your own country publicly stating that they pay less taxes then the average American.

yes, this was said. however, when the reality of his tax situation was examined this was found not to be true.  at least not in the way he stated it.  + his company owes billions in back taxes so if he's so worried about what others pay, he might start by paying his own.

you do have a legitimate point about our economic problems effecting others.  because the entire world is tied together in trade and commerce, what happens to one, does impact another.  you may blame the liberal policies that forced banks to loan to those who should not have qualified, for the mortgage mess.  you may blame the liberal policies of other countries for the problems they are facing.  if Europe goes in the dumper, do you not think it will cause trouble for you and us?


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On a side note, birth control such as prayers and absenteeism, however popular they may be, DO NOT WORK. This is another factor that adds people on welfare.

birth control is available and very often free.  if not free, it is certainly covered under the Medicaid program, which covers welfare and low income people.  there is no excuse for not using it....but i guess if you are getting more money for having more babies, that would be a disincentive to using birth control.

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I'm perfectly aware what teabagging means

 then i will ask you not to use it again.  i believe the use of it is a violation of forum rules, but i'll let the mods figure that out.

i don't mind discussing our policies with those from other places.  it is educational for me and i hope, for them.  a good discussion requires that we be civil even when we disagree.  it also requires that both parties have some idea what they are talking about.  you are badly misinformed about much of what goes on here.  if it's willful, there is no reason to carry on talking.  if it's not, then some study of different points of view would further the conversation.
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.....The greatest changes occur in their country without their cooperation. They are not even aware of precisely what has taken place. They suspect it; they have heard of the event by chance. More than that, they are unconcerned with the fortunes of their village, the safety of their streets, the fate of their church and its vestry. They think that such things have nothing to do with them, that they belong to a powerful stranger called “the government.” They enjoy these goods as tenants, without a sense of ownership, and never give a thought to how they might be improved.....

 Alexis de Tocqueville
kathyp
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« Reply #46 on: September 23, 2011, 08:51:52 PM »

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Canada is likely to be around providing their citizens with health care long after we go belly up and bankrupt.  What’s better, a “social welfare state” or a bankrupt state?

if Europe is an example, the social welfare state if followed by the bankrupt state.

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.....The greatest changes occur in their country without their cooperation. They are not even aware of precisely what has taken place. They suspect it; they have heard of the event by chance. More than that, they are unconcerned with the fortunes of their village, the safety of their streets, the fate of their church and its vestry. They think that such things have nothing to do with them, that they belong to a powerful stranger called “the government.” They enjoy these goods as tenants, without a sense of ownership, and never give a thought to how they might be improved.....

 Alexis de Tocqueville
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« Reply #47 on: September 23, 2011, 08:55:27 PM »


if Europe is an example, the social welfare state if followed by the bankrupt state.


Exactly
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Old Blue
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« Reply #48 on: September 23, 2011, 11:40:52 PM »

Uh Oh ! !

Somebody’s been watching too much Lib O Crat TV up in the great white north !

I wonder why the American Criminal Liberties Union can’t be bothered to look into the tax payers civil rights being violated by forcibly being taxed to support that criminal behavior?   

I am shocked to see a professional payed liar – oops, I mean politician, with the testicular fortitude to attempt some thing so admirably commendable.

What are you Floridians putting in the water down there?  We need a transcontinental pipeline for a direct transfusion straight to Sacramento!  Or maybe we could just borrow your Governor for a few decades.

Old Blue
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kathyp
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« Reply #49 on: September 23, 2011, 11:45:11 PM »

how's moonbeam working out for you  evil
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.....The greatest changes occur in their country without their cooperation. They are not even aware of precisely what has taken place. They suspect it; they have heard of the event by chance. More than that, they are unconcerned with the fortunes of their village, the safety of their streets, the fate of their church and its vestry. They think that such things have nothing to do with them, that they belong to a powerful stranger called “the government.” They enjoy these goods as tenants, without a sense of ownership, and never give a thought to how they might be improved.....

 Alexis de Tocqueville
Old Blue
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« Reply #50 on: September 24, 2011, 02:20:23 AM »

Lets just say that he's been gone a while but hes picked up right where he left off.  In fact it's as if he didn't skip a beat.

Employment prospects in our state are among the worst in the nation.  We have I believe either the worst or close to it, business climate in the country.  When I attended school here in the 60s & 70s we had the top schools in the nation - #1.  Now our schools are ranked 49th.  When i graduated from high school my graduating class was I believe 1100 kids with almost all graduating.  My daughter just graduated from the same high school with her class of 500 something, only 273 of them graduated. 

She was accepted to UCSB (Santa Barbara) and was only eligible for student loans for 1/6th of what she needed to attend.  Dad and Mom can not finance the other 22K per year.  We have spent 20+ years paying down the morgage on our tiny modest home and we have no pensions but have to pay for everyone elses.  She has started to talk to us again.  Her friends whose parents are divorced or have a different kind of surname are all going off to college.  She is getting the poiny end of the screw in my opinion.

20 years ago the company I work for was owned by a pharmacuetical company.  They took us off of pensions because they couldn't afford it.  This was americas most admired company for 5 or 6 years running - absolute top notch pharma company, and they couldn't afford it.  All of our state workers and teachers have pensions that our state cannot afford and we have been driven to a state of debt that is breaking the state, literally.  We are currently in an identical situation as Greece.  Our Governors have been predictablly holding all of the best loved parts of california hostage to try to get more taxes out of us to help close the defecit.  We don't have it.

It is the Falcon Crest Aristocracy that has driven us into insolvency.  The last election sealed our fate.  I would never have believed it if I hadn't seen it first hand, but the majority residing in Los Angeles and San Francisco voted all of the same folks right back in office.  Our fate is apparently sealed.  Watch it crumble. rolleyes

In short, Moonbeam is doing what Moonbeam does.  No surprises.

Sorry for the rant.  Aren't you glad you asked. grin

Old Blue
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buzzbee
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« Reply #51 on: September 24, 2011, 07:37:19 AM »

Old Blue,
if only you would give a little more,and quit being so selfish,you could find that utopia that is promised to all!!
Remember what Reagan said should be your most feared words which too often people fail to realize:
"I"m from the government and I 'm here to help."
Another perfect example:
"Government is like a baby. An alimentary canal with a big appetite at one end and no sense of responsibility at the other."
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yockey5
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« Reply #52 on: September 24, 2011, 08:19:54 AM »

mushmushi, it was I that said you are evil. Go back to your original post, read it. The lights may then come on.
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kathyp
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« Reply #53 on: September 24, 2011, 10:54:21 AM »

yup, it's a shame whats happened to CA.  used to have the best roads too.  no more.

now that the feds control student loans, i think a lot of kids are going to end up where your daughter is.  there are ways around it though.  she can start at a community college, take classes part time and work, or consider an ROTC program....although these days i'm not sure i'd recommend the military to anyone.

my youngest went though the college disappointment thing.  in grade school  he decided he wanted to go the the Naval Academy.  he went all though school with that goal in mind.  made the final cut, had the physical and everything...then got turned down.  he was pretty bummed out, but he ended up going to oregon state and their NROTC program.  in the end, i think it was better for him.  never told him at the time, but i really hate academy grads  evil

she'll be fine....which is more than i can say for your state.  kind of glad i don't live there anymore.  bad as oregon is, CA has it beat.
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.....The greatest changes occur in their country without their cooperation. They are not even aware of precisely what has taken place. They suspect it; they have heard of the event by chance. More than that, they are unconcerned with the fortunes of their village, the safety of their streets, the fate of their church and its vestry. They think that such things have nothing to do with them, that they belong to a powerful stranger called “the government.” They enjoy these goods as tenants, without a sense of ownership, and never give a thought to how they might be improved.....

 Alexis de Tocqueville
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« Reply #54 on: September 24, 2011, 11:41:54 AM »

Sorry to hear your plight OldBlue, it sounds like California has become like the “old” GM.  That is sad.  It does irk me that public workers still see tax payer funded pensions as their right when the rest of us got booted from the pension wagon a LONG time ago.  These things are what are really exploding the state budgets.

I wonder if Moonbeam will try to enact some of the policies he promoted while running for President.  I always liked his flat tax idea.

FYI…. First day attendance at the Detroit public schools was reported to be only 55%!  Don’t know what the graduation rate is, but it isn’t good! 
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Poppi
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« Reply #55 on: September 24, 2011, 05:07:07 PM »

Hmmmmmmm!!!!    missing one point here...    The Federal Government NEVER had the authority to put in place these welfare programs...  but they did!   The Fed continues to ignore the constitution.  Both sides of the aisle are equally guilty...   
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beemaster
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« Reply #56 on: September 24, 2011, 06:07:25 PM »

Mushi said: America's Drug Policy's are a complete failure... By his own way of thinking, since a majority of marijuana comes from Canada, we should shoot all Canadian Drug Traffickers (to wound them of course - then we put them on Welfare rather than extradition) for "four or five years" What then Mushi?? JUST toss them out in the cold. You heart less thing.

We have prisoners in this country, convicted and jailed at below majority age, they'll live into their 80's, balanced diets, free medical care, daily exercise and we pay every penny of the bill - that's better than Welfare to many cause housing is included - sweet deal by some people's lowered expectations of what life can be.

Meanwhile, those who have lost their jobs due to this economy are limited (although it be pretty generous a period today) to Unemployment benefits. Those benefits are not a free meal, it is a great cost to the employer, who in turn has reduced wages for employees - it isn't a hand out, it is a BRIDGE to hopefully finding work and returning to a stable workforce. This concept does not apply to the Welfare minded, 4 generations who know nothing else but how to scam us out of money that could go elsewhere.

The part of our population that needs this more than any are the truly handicapped who by the short draw of the straw will never be able to do anything that is capable of earning them a living. Although many people with extreme challenging handicaps are out there earning their way, it is a testament to their spirit. They are the ones who wish no hand-outs, and they are the Anti-Welfare state. So much more could go to making their lives more bearable, but we are too busy dumping funds into the generational trash can of our society.



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fish_stix
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« Reply #57 on: September 26, 2011, 10:53:38 AM »

kathyp;  Wink being a Naval Academy graduate I should take offense to your above post, but I don't. Just remember, when the shooting starts, Naval and Military Academy grads are the first to volunteer to go so that you can continue to exercise your right to hate academy grads. BTW, I went to the academy after 2 1/2 years enlisted service, your son may have been able to do the same! There are 180 Secretary of the Navy appointments for Navy and Marine Corps enlisted folks each year. All the services have the same deal for their service academies.  evil
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kathyp
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« Reply #58 on: September 26, 2011, 11:44:16 AM »

fish-stix, you know you are not the kind a academy grad i'm talking about.  grin  those kids who go from high school to Annapolis enter the fleet full of theory and pride, but no useful skills.  it take a good chief knocking some sense into them before they are worth anything.  usually takes about 2 years.

my youngest wanted to do something different.  he wanted to be commissioned a line officer right off the bat.  all others were some form of mustang and none were line.  they were either CWO, LDO, or MSC.  NROTC got him where he wanted to be and i think he was better for it.  some real world experience and a commission.
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.....The greatest changes occur in their country without their cooperation. They are not even aware of precisely what has taken place. They suspect it; they have heard of the event by chance. More than that, they are unconcerned with the fortunes of their village, the safety of their streets, the fate of their church and its vestry. They think that such things have nothing to do with them, that they belong to a powerful stranger called “the government.” They enjoy these goods as tenants, without a sense of ownership, and never give a thought to how they might be improved.....

 Alexis de Tocqueville
Scadsobees
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« Reply #59 on: September 26, 2011, 12:21:50 PM »

Wow, what uneducated drivel!

I'm still here Wink
How dare you say I'm evil when you have republicans cheering executions ? How hypocrite of you.
Cheering? If there were cheering, it would be the executions of people who have cruelly and inhumanely executed somebody else for little or no reason.  I wish we could send those monsters to Quebec and have them stay, but they'd be back.

Quote
What about O'Reilly and Glenn Beck making daily incendiary comments on public TV ?
I got almost banned for my tongue-in-cheek comment.
Haven't seen them make any incendiary comments on beemaster.com.  There are others who do though. rolleyes
Quote
On a side note, birth control such as prayers and absenteeism, however popular they may be, DO NOT WORK. This is another factor that adds people on welfare.
Last time I abstained from intercourse with my wife, she did not get pregnant.  Nobody else has either, on my account.  It DOES work.  Not sure what absenteeism means, though.

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You have billionaires in your own country publicly stating that they pay less taxes then the average american.
If you'd do any research, you'd find out that they state that they pay a lower RATE, not LESS TAXES than an average american.  I'd be more than happy to earn as much as they pay in taxes.

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About drug usage, your whole "war on drugs" is a monumental failure, unless you look at it from the perspective of weapon dealers and military industry. In that case it is a amazing success since you were able to shift massive amount of tax payer money into their pockets.
Actually, it is a like trying to keep cockroaches out of your house when your neighbor next door breeds them.  I guess if we stop worrying about cockroaches and open the doors, you could say we wouldn't have a cockroach problem.

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Perhaps this is why you will stick to "drugs are bad, evil, demons temping you" theories but why don't you look at this issue from another angle ? i.e. being a disease (health) ?
Because if it is a disease, we can't fix it, because it is a disease that people want.

Quote
Seems to me like you will be whipping the uneducated and the poor *again*.  whip
Only the uneducated who don't want to be educated, and poor who just want to complain about it instead of getting their butts moving and change it.
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Rick
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