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Author Topic: It's a start. Let's hope the other 49 follow suit.  (Read 6154 times)
kathyp
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« Reply #20 on: September 21, 2011, 12:53:27 PM »

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That being said I don't like the law just by the simple fact that indivual rights should be respected more then this.


they are not forced to take the test.  they may choose to give up the welfare and not be drug tested.  how is it different from you having the choice not to work for a company that drug tests?  

Quote
Take away the tools to get out off welfare and you end up with lifers.  Do we want more lifers?
 

except the don't have the 20 dollar talk n toss from walmart, do they?  

http://blog.heritage.org/2010/01/18/government-welfare-cell-phones-for-the-poor/

and do you know that part of the tax you pay on your phone bills is to subsidize low income programs?  that's on top of whatever other taxes you pay for the same.  
we have been providing "the tools to get off welfare" for decades.  which of these tools have worked??
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.....The greatest changes occur in their country without their cooperation. They are not even aware of precisely what has taken place. They suspect it; they have heard of the event by chance. More than that, they are unconcerned with the fortunes of their village, the safety of their streets, the fate of their church and its vestry. They think that such things have nothing to do with them, that they belong to a powerful stranger called “the government.” They enjoy these goods as tenants, without a sense of ownership, and never give a thought to how they might be improved.....

 Alexis de Tocqueville
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« Reply #21 on: September 21, 2011, 12:55:26 PM »

good for him.  he may yet make a success of that state.  to bad for the neighboring states.  welfare folks are very mobile when they think their checks are threatened, or the free stuff is better somewhere else.....not so much to search for a job.....San Francisco learned that the hard way!
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.....The greatest changes occur in their country without their cooperation. They are not even aware of precisely what has taken place. They suspect it; they have heard of the event by chance. More than that, they are unconcerned with the fortunes of their village, the safety of their streets, the fate of their church and its vestry. They think that such things have nothing to do with them, that they belong to a powerful stranger called “the government.” They enjoy these goods as tenants, without a sense of ownership, and never give a thought to how they might be improved.....

 Alexis de Tocqueville
iddee
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« Reply #22 on: September 21, 2011, 02:14:11 PM »

"How do you get a job without a phone?"

By walking into the company office or job site and asking for one.

Of course, if you are too lazy to walk, you likely don't want a job anyway.
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« Reply #23 on: September 21, 2011, 02:43:03 PM »

I hear the new IPhone is set to go on sale Oct 4th.  I guess we know who will be first in line Smiley
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BlueBee
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« Reply #24 on: September 21, 2011, 02:47:50 PM »

There are welfare people living in San Francisco?  My college buddies who moved to Silicon Valley would sure like to know how you can live in San Francisco for free?  They couldn't even afford a fancy phone after pooling money just to pay for rent.
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danno
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« Reply #25 on: September 21, 2011, 02:56:31 PM »

Got this emailed to me today

I have never heard this said as plain or as well.  Class war at its best.
 
The folks who are getting the free stuff, don't like the folks who are paying for the free stuff,
 
because the folks who are paying for the free stuff can no longer afford to pay for both the free stuff and their own stuff,
 
And, the folks who are paying for the free stuff want the free stuff to stop, and the folks who are getting the free stuff
 
want even more free stuff on top of the free stuff they are already getting!    Now...  The people who are forcing the people
 
who pay for the free stuff have told the people who are RECEIVING the free stuff that the people who are PAYING for the
 
free stuff are being mean, prejudiced, and racist.   So... the people who are GETTING the free stuff have been convinced
 
that they need to hate the people who are paying for the free stuff by the people who are forcing some people to pay
 
for their free stuff and giving them the free stuff in the first place.   We have let the free stuff giving go on for so long
 
that there are now more people getting free stuff than paying for the free stuff.
 
 
Now understand this. All great democracies have committed financial suicide somewhere between 200 and 250 years
 
after being founded.  The reason?  The voters figured out they could vote themselves money from the treasury by
 
electing people who promised to give them money from the treasury in exchange for electing them.
 
The United States officially became a Republic in 1776, 235 years ago. The number of people now getting free stuff
 
outnumbers the people paying for the free stuff. We have one chance to change that in 2012. Failure to change that
 
spells the end of the United States as we know it.
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kathyp
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« Reply #26 on: September 21, 2011, 05:05:34 PM »

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There are welfare people living in San Francisco?

oh yes.  about all that's left in SF are the crazy libs and the crazy welfare people.  a few years ago, SF decided they would provide free apartments, checks, phones, etc. to all the homeless.  the thought was that if they had an address, and phone, and a little money, they'd be able to find jobs.  not only did this not work for the poor folks in SF, there was such a great migration of people into the city for the free stuff, that SF quietly ended the program.
which, i think, goes to prove that even the welfare class can be motivated under the right circumstances.....

what has happened in SF is a shame.  it used to be one of the best places to live.  now it's a mess.  the busing program has been one of the last straws for many families.  if they can get out, they get out.
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.....The greatest changes occur in their country without their cooperation. They are not even aware of precisely what has taken place. They suspect it; they have heard of the event by chance. More than that, they are unconcerned with the fortunes of their village, the safety of their streets, the fate of their church and its vestry. They think that such things have nothing to do with them, that they belong to a powerful stranger called “the government.” They enjoy these goods as tenants, without a sense of ownership, and never give a thought to how they might be improved.....

 Alexis de Tocqueville
Irwin
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howdy all


« Reply #27 on: September 21, 2011, 11:12:54 PM »

bet the courts will block it.  no good deed goes unlitigated.....
[/quote So true.
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« Reply #28 on: September 22, 2011, 01:11:04 AM »

The voters figured out they could vote themselves money from the treasury by
 
electing people who promised to give them money from the treasury in exchange for electing them.
 

I've never poked my head up in a political thread, but here goes.

I read this comment a few months ago and it was weeks before I was struck by an alternate interpretation.  I think I am more afraid of the corporations who have the legal right to free speech.  These entities have resources to pay for the professional lobbyists, the contributions, the seemingly endless stream of political advertising, etc.  And of course, the beneficiary of this bounty is someone aligned with the interests of the patron and expected to further the interests of the patron.

The "of course" part is true at any scale:  I vote for the individuals who I feel represent my views and I expect that they will not turn about following election.  But I also feel my voice may of necessity be lost in the roar of the source of the real money that is now required to make a serious run at any significant elected office.

I don't know that "those people" do have the clout to vote themselves money from the treasury.

And a quick dip back to the OP, I think mandatory (random) drug testing is a fine idea.  It's a condition of my CDL and I understood that when I applied for my job.  We can't afford to test everybody every month.  And as with my job, "reasonable suspicion" by a competent observer should be grounds for additional testing.
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kathyp
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« Reply #29 on: September 22, 2011, 12:09:22 PM »

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I've never poked my head up in a political thread, but here goes.

poke away.  you have an interest in how things go.

 
Quote
I think I am more afraid of the corporations who have the legal right to free speech.  These entities have resources to pay for the professional lobbyists, the contributions, the seemingly endless stream of political advertising, etc.  And of course, the beneficiary of this bounty is someone aligned with the interests of the patron and expected to further the interests of the patron.

yes, but...that's not necessarily a bad thing.  corporations and others hire lobbyist to advocate for them. they are usually arguing against something the the government wants to do to them, either in taxes or regulations.  that in itself is not a bad thing.  in fact, if the feds were not poking their noses into things they should not, you might argue that there would be less need for lobbyists.   if a company is successful in avoiding regulations and taxes, that's good for the company...which is good for the share-holder, worker, and the other services attached (trucking, for instance).
the problem comes when the government and business/industry get into bed with each other.  this is generally known as "crony capitalism".  in this case, the government shows a preference for one company over another, or punishes one company over another, thus picking winners and losers. GE, GM,  Solyndra, are good examples.  again, if the feds were not in a position of regulating, loaning, etc. this would not be an issue. 

Quote
I don't know that "those people" do have the clout to vote themselves money from the treasury.

they do in this way:  they will vote for those who will give them "stuff".  those people who wish to stay in office will continue to promise "stuff".  as the number of people not paying taxes but getting stuff increases, those paying for the stuff through taxes have less and less power. 
if the government tries to change the programs as they have done in Greece, France, Germany, etc.  the people riot. 

those politician in charge of passing out goodies have a vested interest in making sure the dependent class grows.  it is their power base.  to control their base and keep it on their side, they must constantly pit the dependent against the evil rich who want to take goodies away,and pitch grandma off the cliff.
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.....The greatest changes occur in their country without their cooperation. They are not even aware of precisely what has taken place. They suspect it; they have heard of the event by chance. More than that, they are unconcerned with the fortunes of their village, the safety of their streets, the fate of their church and its vestry. They think that such things have nothing to do with them, that they belong to a powerful stranger called “the government.” They enjoy these goods as tenants, without a sense of ownership, and never give a thought to how they might be improved.....

 Alexis de Tocqueville
yockey5
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« Reply #30 on: September 22, 2011, 12:20:17 PM »

"Quote
I don't know that "those people" do have the clout to vote themselves money from the treasury.

they do in this way:  they will vote for those who will give them "stuff".  those people who wish to stay in office will continue to promise "stuff".  as the number of people not paying taxes but getting stuff increases, those paying for the stuff through taxes have less and less power.
if the government tries to change the programs as they have done in Greece, France, Germany, etc.  the people riot.

those politician in charge of passing out goodies have a vested interest in making sure the dependent class grows.  it is their power base.  to control their base and keep it on their side, they must constantly pit the dependent against the evil rich who want to take goodies away,and pitch grandma off the cliff."

This is what I believe is killing America.
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D Semple
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« Reply #31 on: September 22, 2011, 02:51:10 PM »


I'm simply pointing out your tunnel vision created by generation of bible group inbreeding.

Want to fix USA's problem ?  Start by hanging a republican every day.



Where did you go Mush, you were on a roll and had them on the ropes?
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b reeves
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« Reply #32 on: September 22, 2011, 08:29:36 PM »

mush
you certainly have a lot of hate inside you
back when they first came out with CDL's I worked with a guy that was a user and he was very upset about the drug testing rules, a year later he was glad he quit he thought he could be a better dad,
mush, when you hold high standards, and make people responsible for their actions you will be surprised
Bob
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Scadsobees
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« Reply #33 on: September 22, 2011, 10:00:48 PM »

No, you guys!  You see, it is you guys that have so much inbred hatred that he's (she's??) trying to eliminate from this world!! grin
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Rick
kathyp
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« Reply #34 on: September 22, 2011, 11:37:08 PM »

what is more hateful than the slavery of economic dependency?  especially when it is encourage to further anothers political career. these people can't really believe that these leftists care about them?
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.....The greatest changes occur in their country without their cooperation. They are not even aware of precisely what has taken place. They suspect it; they have heard of the event by chance. More than that, they are unconcerned with the fortunes of their village, the safety of their streets, the fate of their church and its vestry. They think that such things have nothing to do with them, that they belong to a powerful stranger called “the government.” They enjoy these goods as tenants, without a sense of ownership, and never give a thought to how they might be improved.....

 Alexis de Tocqueville
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« Reply #35 on: September 23, 2011, 02:53:41 PM »

You have to remember Mushi is from Canada and they are very subject to Cabin Fever... They only have 2 Seasons - Winter and August 3rd.

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« Reply #36 on: September 23, 2011, 03:12:45 PM »

1. Joined U.S.M.C. at 17 yrs. of age.
2. Seriously wounded at age 21.
3. No longer fit for active duty.
4. Could not pass any job physical due to lung scaring, poor hearing, shrapnel, etc.
5. Took whatever jobs for most of my life.
6. College educated at age 60 (no longer able to perform hard physical labor).
7. Still not on welfare. Go figure...
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kathyp
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« Reply #37 on: September 23, 2011, 04:20:35 PM »

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You have to remember Mushi is from Canada and they are very subject to Cabin Fever

fair enough, and i enjoy talking to people from other countries.  i understand that they have a different point of view.  i understand that most of them come from social welfare states and think it's a peachy way to live. 

maybe he comes here and whizzes on our pond because he's afraid to say the same in his own country.  with their new "hate speech" laws, he might not be comfortable talking about hanging the folks from Canada with whom he disagrees?
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.....The greatest changes occur in their country without their cooperation. They are not even aware of precisely what has taken place. They suspect it; they have heard of the event by chance. More than that, they are unconcerned with the fortunes of their village, the safety of their streets, the fate of their church and its vestry. They think that such things have nothing to do with them, that they belong to a powerful stranger called “the government.” They enjoy these goods as tenants, without a sense of ownership, and never give a thought to how they might be improved.....

 Alexis de Tocqueville
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« Reply #38 on: September 23, 2011, 05:29:47 PM »

Canada is likely to be around providing their citizens with health care long after we go belly up and bankrupt.  What’s better, a “social welfare state” or a bankrupt state?

We also have to keep in mind the impression people outside the US get when they see the quality of politicians the political parties give up to pick from.  The Republican Party has gone so far right of Reagan that they truly look like coo coos to many of us.   They do come across as anti everything.  The media of coarse loves the extremes, so they just feed the lunacy.  Discussion of responsible solutions never have a chance in this environment.
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« Reply #39 on: September 23, 2011, 06:57:10 PM »

I don't know if Constitutionalists qualify as coo  coo's.A lot of people think that bringing the government in line with the Constitution is whacko.
If I remember correctly Canada had to close their doors on health care facilities in December some years back because of lack of funding. And I also remember one of their prime ministers coming to the US for heart surgery because he wanted better treatment.
http://sweetness-light.com/archive/cn-prime-minister-my-heart-my-choice
Many of the social welfare states have come to their knees just because of these practices. Look at all the rioting on the streets in France when they talked of ramping the work week back up to 40 hours because they could no longer sustain the population on the 35 hour week. England is restudying it's Socialist health care systems. A lot of social welfare states are just as broke as we are.
 And the last two years have placed the US in twice the debt it had been by the socialist attitudes of spending unheard of amounts of money via stimulus payments that so far have produced very little.
We need more people like John Pfaff.Not more welfare.
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