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Author Topic: fall fumigillin treatment  (Read 2904 times)
rober
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« on: September 04, 2011, 02:22:50 PM »

how many treat with fumigillin in the fall? i added the correct dosage to gallon jugs of syrup. the weather delayed treatment for 24 hours & 1 gallon developed a bit of mold. is that normal?
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AliciaH
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« Reply #1 on: September 05, 2011, 09:57:23 PM »

I will be treating this fall.  I did not treat last fall and almost lost a colony to nosema in late February/March.  It was had to treat at that point because it was still too cold; they did not want to take syrup.  By the time they did take it, the colony size was 1/2.  And, I had some robbing so I figured the nosema was spreading and ended up treating everyone anyway.  My feeling is that the nosema issue is still out there, lurking, waiting for the great weather to pass...so, this fall I'm going to treat.

However, if I did have that situation again, I read here (sorry, I don't remember who suggested this) to put the syrup with fumagilin in a spray bottle and spray directly on the bees.  You'd have to watch your outside temps, but I thought that was a great idea! 

As for mold in your syrup...sounds like the mold developed pretty quick.  But if it's warm enough and the syrup is getting light, I could see it happening.  Also depends on what was in the container before you put the syrup in?
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bee-nuts
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« Reply #2 on: September 06, 2011, 12:28:38 AM »

I deal with a large commercial beek that runs over 2500 colonies and pollinate almonds in CA bee brothel.  They have yet to fall prey to CCD or any large die offs.  Fum-b is very important according to them and must be applied at double dose (twice as strong as recommended) or you might as well not treat at all with it.  I dont pretend to know everything but I will listen to a beek with a good tract record very seriously.
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Michael Bush
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« Reply #3 on: September 06, 2011, 01:59:58 AM »

>how many treat with fumigillin in the fall?

Not I.
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Michael Bush
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Ken
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« Reply #4 on: September 06, 2011, 06:45:03 AM »

Remember when treating with fumagillin that it treats nosema. Not all dysentary is nosema.There are other causes of dysentary.
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danno
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« Reply #5 on: September 06, 2011, 08:38:41 AM »

I deal with a large commercial beek that runs over 2500 colonies and pollinate almonds in CA bee brothel.  They have yet to fall prey to CCD or any large die offs.  Fum-b is very important according to them and must be applied at double dose (twice as strong as recommended) or you might as well not treat at all with it.  I dont pretend to know everything but I will listen to a beek with a good tract record very seriously.
The standard dose is 8 grams I believe in 2 gallons of 2 - 1 syrup.  Are you saying use 16 grams in 2 gallons or 8 grams in 1 gallon
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caticind
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« Reply #6 on: September 06, 2011, 10:34:42 AM »

I do not use it.  Routine treatment in the absence of symptoms sounds like a recipe for resistant nosema that will not respond to treatment when you really need it.
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The bees would be no help; they would tumble over each other like golden babies and thrum wordlessly on the subjects of queens and sex and pollen-gluey feet. -Palimpsest
danno
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« Reply #7 on: September 06, 2011, 01:22:44 PM »

I do not use it.  Routine treatment in the absence of symptoms sounds like a recipe for resistant nosema that will not respond to treatment when you really need it.
you also dont have 5 months of winter.   I have had years without treating with fumigillin and lost 50+%.   Years that I did treat have always had exceptable loses.  One year I even had 100% winter.
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bee-nuts
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« Reply #8 on: September 06, 2011, 01:43:40 PM »

Danno, i do not have the paper work with me but they say for fum-b to have an effect on nosema cerana you need to double the dose.  So if bottle makes 50 gallons then you only get 25 gallons and still feed same amount of syrup to each colony.  Yes you double the strength.  Very expensive, more than mite treatment but like you say, 50% loss over winter is not acceptable.  And for me its worth every penny.

I really want to get a scope next year if I can afford it.  I would be better to understand if you are infected than treat un-infected yards.  You could also do some great trials with infected colonies and see how well fum-b works.  If you have a heavily infected yard, treat half and leave other half untreated.  When treated winter, and infected are dead outs, you would know with almost certainty that your treatment is worth it.

I would love to be treatment free like MB but I am not willing to lose everything at this point.  When I can afford to run a couple yards in separate locations and live with die offs till the bee or mites evolve to co-exist, and bees become resistant to nosema ect I will.  I sure the heck am not going to throw everything up in the air now and have three sick colonies left in spring and start over with more southern queens with no proven wintering ability.  First I want to improve my stocks wintering ability ect., then I might start playing craps.
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danno
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« Reply #9 on: September 06, 2011, 02:01:57 PM »

A few years back I was told by Dr Larry ( cant mention any names) that lives in Michigan about 1 1/2 hours south of me that if I wanted to get my bee's through michigan winters to treat.  I have tried it both ways treating and not treating.  I have 4 yards and have tried treating 1/2.  The reasults just keep coming back the same.  I have a friend that lives 45 minutes to the south of me.  He doesn't treat for anything and never has.  He keeps about 100 colonies and last year had 12 make it through winter. Yes I said 12.  He and a partner make 2 or 3 trips south each year and bring back 1000's of 3#er for sale.  They mark up the packages to cover expences and get replacment bee's. 
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bee-nuts
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« Reply #10 on: September 06, 2011, 03:55:45 PM »

Was a very bad winter last season.  I lost half my colonies.  However some should have been shook out that had high mite loads but I gave them a chance, and a few died from over feeding, and two were terrorized by skunks right before winter.  I think if these issues were solved, I would have lost 25% tops.  USDA rep said I was one of the lucky one only losing half in my area.
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The moment a person forms a theory, his imagination sees in every object only the traits which favor that theory

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rober
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« Reply #11 on: September 06, 2011, 07:07:33 PM »

i know that not all threads get read so here's some background. i have 3 hives that i started from nucs this spring. they are all strong, full of bees, full of honey, pollen, & brood. i only got honey from 1 but part of that was my fault for not getting supers on in time. i did a mite count & counts were low. i'm only seeing a few hive beetles. i recently bought 2 hives from a beek who does not have enough forage. they are queen right & full of bees but they were starving.
i started feeding them & they were taking 1 1/2 gallons of syrup ( each hive) per day. that was 2 weeks ago. i lucked out & found a food processing plant that sells their spilled sugar for .09 per pound ( $4.00 per 5 gallon bucket )
the new hives are now as full & as heavy as my original hives. i gave all the hives a feeder with fumigillin 2 days ago. it also suddenly cooled off here. none of the hives have finished the feeders yet. i'm assuming it's due to the weather cooling but it's odd that they slowed their feeding when i put the fummigillin to them. the way i read the dosage is that you should not double the dose in the syrup but rather give them 2 doses (feeders) at the normal dosage.
 the good news is that my mentor came by today & we went thru all the hives. everything is looking good. plenty of bees, pollen,brood & stored honey. i'll check again in early october but as soon as they finish the fumigillin i can quit feeding for now. with plenty of stores & low mite counts i'm more hopeful that they will all survive the winter. i hope i did not just jinx myself by stating this publicly....
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caticind
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« Reply #12 on: September 07, 2011, 09:22:31 AM »

I do not use it.  Routine treatment in the absence of symptoms sounds like a recipe for resistant nosema that will not respond to treatment when you really need it.
you also dont have 5 months of winter.   I have had years without treating with fumigillin and lost 50+%.   Years that I did treat have always had exceptable loses.  One year I even had 100% winter.

Nope, I don't have long cold winters.  And neither does the OP.
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The bees would be no help; they would tumble over each other like golden babies and thrum wordlessly on the subjects of queens and sex and pollen-gluey feet. -Palimpsest
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