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Author Topic: Another stupid proverb  (Read 2773 times)
Finski
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« on: September 04, 2011, 12:14:20 AM »

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First stupid saying is that bees heath the cluster, not the hive. That is nonsence. When you sit in the car, your body heats the interior of the car even if you do not want. 4 persons in the car and you notice it better.

Another stupid sentence is "cold does not kill bees but moisture does"

the colder the winter the more dead hives.

The more cold in winter, the more dry weather.

Moisture inside the hive and cold weather outside are totally different things and you need to handle these things with different tricks.

You need not over react on these things. Bees stand some amount condensation inside the hive, but continuous moist air make them sick.

Bees stand very well short frost periods like -30C, but if that frost continues couple of months, parts of clusters will die, and finally the whole hive.

A small cluster must make more work to keep itself warm than a big hive.
Then its gut will be filled and the poo exploses inside the hive. Or a bee try to fly out to make poo and die on that course.
« Last Edit: September 04, 2011, 11:02:43 AM by Finski » Logged

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iddee
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« Reply #1 on: September 04, 2011, 12:28:26 AM »

Good post. I'm glad to know I'm not the only one that thinks that way.
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BlueBee
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« Reply #2 on: September 04, 2011, 12:36:43 AM »

Bluebee thinks like you guys too  grin
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CapnChkn
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« Reply #3 on: September 04, 2011, 12:52:24 AM »

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T Beek
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« Reply #4 on: September 04, 2011, 12:08:59 PM »

Comparing humans with bees is stupid (not my first choice of words, just following OP) rolleyes.  

Four people sitting all night in a car in subfreezing temps could very likely be dead by morning.  Same four people in an unheated house would suffer the same fate, just might take a bit longer.  

While humans generate 'some' heat its not enough to keep us alive in freezing temps. Even with 50 people in an unheated house, with out 'artificial' heat they would be stiff by Spring, no question, and much unlike bees.  

Man I love this topic Wink

Seems like someone(s) freezes to death every year up here, doesn't take long at minus 25 (F).

thomas
« Last Edit: September 04, 2011, 04:22:24 PM by T Beek » Logged

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hankdog1
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« Reply #5 on: September 04, 2011, 02:51:19 PM »

Comparing humans with bees is stupid (not my first choice of words, just following OP) rolleyes

Four people sitting all night in a car in subfreezing temps could very likely be dead by morning.  Same four people in an unheated house would suffer the same fate, just might take a bit longer. 

While humans generate 'some' heat its not enough to keep us alive in freezing temps. Even with 50 people in an unheated house, with out 'artifical' heat would be stiff by Spring, no question, and much unlike bees. 

Man I love this topic Wink

Seems like someone(s) freezes to death every year up here, doesn't take long at minus 25 (F).

thomas

Don't know if I would throw around personal assaults on people.  That stuff has landed more then one person on the ban list.  Finski is an experienced beekeeper that has been keeping bees alive in a climate in which most of us would give up.  Now that being said disagreeing is one thing but he does have a right to his opinion just as you do. 

For what it's worth makes sense to me what he is trying to convey even if maybe it wasn't done in a way you deem the best example.
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T Beek
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« Reply #6 on: September 04, 2011, 03:43:51 PM »

My climate is only slightly less harsh than Finski's (we're expecting temps in the low 30's tonite), who as we all know has many years of beekeeping experience, he tells us all the time. 

My own beekeeping history began over 30 years ago.  It is unfortunate however that experience doesn't always equate good teachers.  My bees have tolerated very cold temps pretty well for me but they will surely die when/if they get cold AND wet.  That reality shouldn't even be a debate. 

As far as throwing around personal assaults (opinions?), it was Finski who labled this post in a derogatory, confrontational and unnecessary manner (he does it all the time, its generally humorous), and that only lessens his credibility as an experienced beekeeper from my perspective (just my opinion Wink).

All I did was call him on it (he's rarely responded though huh) which is my way.  Sorry for the crossfire, I thought my aim was right on.

thomas
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Finski
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« Reply #7 on: September 04, 2011, 04:25:07 PM »

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Hi Beek. How it is possible to be cold and wet at same time?

-20C and water rain?
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derekm
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« Reply #8 on: September 04, 2011, 04:35:28 PM »

Comparing humans with bees is stupid (not my first choice of words, just following OP) rolleyes.  

Four people sitting all night in a car in subfreezing temps could very likely be dead by morning.  Same four people in an unheated house would suffer the same fate, just might take a bit longer.  

While humans generate 'some' heat its not enough to keep us alive in freezing temps. Even with 50 people in an unheated house, with out 'artificial' heat they would be stiff by Spring, no question, and much unlike bees.  

Man I love this topic Wink

Seems like someone(s) freezes to death every year up here, doesn't take long at minus 25 (F).

thomas



no its quite easy to survive in low temperatures,     you just need insulation and food. Four people in the right house wouldn't die,
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If they increased energy bill for your home by a factor of 4.5 would you consider that cruel? If so why are you doing that to your bees?
Finski
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« Reply #9 on: September 04, 2011, 04:41:56 PM »

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I live on 60 latitude. Could you look where that line goes in North America.

Wisconsin is situated on 47 latitude.   same climate?

 
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T Beek
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« Reply #10 on: September 04, 2011, 04:53:33 PM »

One way would be to add bees, bee-heat and/or respiration to cold temps inside a sealed box with no way for it to exit.  

For the record, our winters in North Wisconsin can be very wet AND very cold, even at the same time (Finland its not, although our winter is just a bit shorter, meaning first killing frost to last).  Have you never spent any time outside when its snowing?  As gathered from  much experience  Wink without some sort of protection  or even with some, most of us would be wet AND cold pretty fast, from the outside AND the inside.  Try it sometime (I can't wait).

Are you trying to bait me Finski (or prove my point for me)?  What is the 'real' point of your question?  Are we going to learn something from all this?   All right, now where did he go?

I was under the impression that you've been doing this awhile, am I mistaken Wink?  

Honestly, I stopped calling people and their beliefs 'stupid' if I happened to disagree w/ them back in grade school, (Politicians being the ONLY exception) but I hope I'm never beyond calling someone out for doing so.

thomas
« Last Edit: September 04, 2011, 05:52:23 PM by T Beek » Logged

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T Beek
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« Reply #11 on: September 04, 2011, 05:05:14 PM »

derekm;  have you ever felt 30 below zero (F)?.  People die from cold every year, in houses, in cars etc...Your assertion is lacking reality.

thomas
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derekm
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« Reply #12 on: September 04, 2011, 05:12:52 PM »

derekm;  have you ever felt 30 below zero (F)?.  People die from cold every year, in houses, in cars etc...Your assertion is lacking reality.

thomas

Yes, I have many times. As an experienced  winter mountaineer and skiier trained in winter survival, I know  how to stay warm and dry. In extreme conditions most people die from ignorance. If there is snow that you can dig into or pile around you (insulation) and you have food you can survive.
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If they increased energy bill for your home by a factor of 4.5 would you consider that cruel? If so why are you doing that to your bees?
T Beek
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« Reply #13 on: September 04, 2011, 05:36:12 PM »

This opinion (full of 'ifs') is based on personal experience then, so that's 1 (or a handful) in 6 billion I guess.  I propose that even with the best conditions and preparedness many actually do die (ignorant or not) when confronted with extreme weather.   I don't know why its a debate (except to just debate).  With the experience you have I'd think you'd know that.  Blame it on ignorance if that feels better grin

thomas
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derekm
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« Reply #14 on: September 04, 2011, 06:04:18 PM »

This opinion is based on personal experience then, so that's 1 (or a handful) in 6 billion I guess.  I propose that even with the best conditions and preparedness many actually do die (ignorant or not) when confronted with extreme weather.   I don't know why its a debate (except to just debate).  With the experience you have I'd think you'd know that.  Blame it on ignorance if that feels better grin

thomas
People are killing bees by not applying the  basic physics that they could use to save themselves one day.  The same physical laws apply to bees, humans, hives and houses. Not knowing them is ignorance, refusing to apply them either stupidity or cruelty.
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If they increased energy bill for your home by a factor of 4.5 would you consider that cruel? If so why are you doing that to your bees?
T Beek
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« Reply #15 on: September 04, 2011, 06:20:14 PM »

People kill bees because that's what people do.  We're very good at killing and justifying it. 

Jeesh, please don't get me started on this subject.

thomas
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Jim 134
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« Reply #16 on: September 04, 2011, 08:11:03 PM »


   Ware I live we get lots of condensation the outside temperature  goes above and below freezeing a lot Just my $0.02

    BEE HAPPY Jim 134 Smiley


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FRAMEshift
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« Reply #17 on: September 04, 2011, 08:50:08 PM »

.
Hi Beek. How it is possible to be cold and wet at same time?

Don't you get the "cow's breath" out of Russia?  I had a Finnish friend who told me about that.
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Finski
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« Reply #18 on: September 04, 2011, 10:26:40 PM »

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Have I ever been in snow rain

At the age of 64 I say never....
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Finski
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« Reply #19 on: September 04, 2011, 10:48:55 PM »

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Hi Beek

an adult generates 60 W heat.
30 persons generates 1800 w. You cannot heat the house with that power but
you may close room doors  and restrict the heat escaping.

You may bye a sleeping bag and you may sleep in temperature -40C.


I have never heard about Russian cow breath.  I am sitting now on soffa and it is 30 miles from here to Russian border. What I feel here is great forest fires. Last summer they burned area which is half of Finland. This year fires have been worse, but somehow the smoke has not come here.

Last summer the mayor of Moscow was kicked off. When fires were very bad, the mayor went to his datsha to nurse bees and Putin felt that he should go to look fires what is going out there.

Near Moscow 28 military air planes were toasted on debot yard. To citizens it was told to leave Moscow for smoke. 

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