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Author Topic: WSP hive bodys?  (Read 2270 times)
prestonpaul
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« on: August 28, 2011, 05:47:21 AM »

What are people's thoughts on using 8 frame WSP hive body's as a standard size for both brood boxes and honey supers?
I have been reading Michael Bush's website and he advocates the use of a standard size across the board to allow the movement of frames between the brood box and honey super. The Size he recommends is the US medium which is 6 5/8" or 168mm. This falls in-between the WSP at 192mm and the Ideal at 144mm. To me as a noob it makes more sense to go slightly larger than slightly smaller but I have no other reason than that to back up my argument. I am on the verge of buying my wooden ware for my first hives and was planning on going with 8 frame full depth for brood and ideals for honey supers but after reading Michaels website and his thoughts on interchangeability have arrived back to a state if indecision grin
Comments thoughts and opinions welcomed.
Paul
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Johnny253
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« Reply #1 on: August 28, 2011, 07:45:46 AM »

I use 10 frame full depth supers for everything. I've heard about 95% of beekeepers use full depth frames. As you say, it makes sense to go larger. The only reason I can think of for going smaller is to make them easier to lift.
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prestonpaul
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« Reply #2 on: August 28, 2011, 06:04:54 PM »

Weight is my concern. Having never lifted a super full of honey or brood I have no idea what I am getting my self into. Whilst I understand 10 frame deeps are the norm for professionals in Australia, 8 frame boxes seem to have a fairly strong following among hobbyists ( which is what I am planning to be) and smaller supers for honey production seem tho be popular as well. Going off Michael Bush's website, a 10 frame deep full of Honey can weigh up to 35 or 40kg and an 8 frame deep 29 to 32kg. To me that seems like a fair bit of weight, particularly if you have to inspect or harvest 5 or 6 hives in one day. Then again, I have access to a tractor and carry all for carting stuff around and I am in my Early 40s and moderately fit (I am a tradesman)
The reason I am worrying about this is I don't want to make an investment in a particular body depth only to find it is too much for me to manage.
Paul.
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OzBuzz
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« Reply #3 on: August 28, 2011, 07:24:47 PM »

Hey Paul,

I use full depth 8 frame hives and you're right! full of honey they can weigh quite a bit! If you prepare for your lift, think about how you're going to do it, and are lifting it on to a wheelbarrow designed for supers it's not too bad... there are other ways too - just lift individual frames in to an empty super - if you don't have lots of hives that's pretty easy to do and certainly saves the back. I find it's much easier top find 8 frame deep gear than any other box sizes...
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Meadlover
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« Reply #4 on: August 28, 2011, 07:28:29 PM »

Paul,

the 2 things to consider are:
1. Weight
2. Standardised frames for brood and super

I run all 10 frame full depth supers. I am young, fit and healthy but if starting again would not go for full depth again - way too HEAVY!
Saying that I have some half depth supers - the beauty being I can stack 2 half depth supers on top of each other and put a full depth frame in them - very usefull when I want to raise a brood frame above the excluder to open up the brood etc. At least this way I can mix a match.

WSP would be fine for both brood and honey, as would I think Ideals, you'd just need to make sure you had 2 x ideal brood boxes to give them enough brood.

I would HIGHLY recommend going for the same sized brood and honey frames.

ML
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OzBuzz
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« Reply #5 on: August 28, 2011, 07:30:56 PM »

I echo what Meadlover has said - stick with the same size in whatever you choose...
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prestonpaul
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« Reply #6 on: August 28, 2011, 09:54:50 PM »

More food for thought.
I am definitely sold on having all one size gear, Michael makes good arguments for that.
The only concern I have with WSP gear is it doesn't seem to be as common and may be harder to come by. And if I by a Nuc from someone it will more than likely be full depth.
Other than that, I am fairly much sold on it.
Thanks for the feedback  Smiley
Paul.
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Meadlover
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« Reply #7 on: August 28, 2011, 11:59:16 PM »

Paul,

I would almost garauntee a Nuc would be Full Depth frames, but you can always modify yourself 1 nuc/box to suit.
I did the same for a mate - he will be running all 1 size frame - I think they are Ideal depth. He bought a nuc box, then I cut the bottom section off to make it an ideal depth nuc, but can add that bit of wood back to make it a full depth nuc if required.

I'm not quite sure on the process we will use to take his nuc from a full depth nuc to ideal depth nuc. My idea was to:
Get some of my full depth frames and get a nuc going.
Add an ideal depth brood box under the full depth frames, let them draw it out and let the queen lay eggs there to get brood into the ideal frames.
Shake all the bees (or just the queen if I can find her) into the bottom ideal box, add a queen excluder, then the full depth frames on top.
Let the brood hatch and then they'll back fill it with honey.

I wouldn't worry too much about what happens when you might buy a nuc, as it will be the exception to the rule.
I would focus on what your normal practices will be, then modify what you need to suit.

ML
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Michael Bush
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« Reply #8 on: August 29, 2011, 04:38:17 AM »

It took me a while to find the sizes, but the ones I found are identical to US ones except for the name:
AU              US
Full Depth = Deep
Manely = Medium
Ideal = Shallow
Half Depth = extra shallow

I found it worth while to cut down all my ten frame equipment to eight and all my deeps to mediums (your "Manley").  Not only can I handle them easily without hurting my back, but I can manage a hive "by the box" instead of "by the frame".  I can split a yard of 20 hives in less than a hour.  If they have more than four eight frame medium boxes full of bees, I put two bottoms down and "deal" the boxes like cards... one for you and one for you, add two empty boxes and put the covers on.  I find mediums winter better than deeps and eight frame winters better than ten frames.
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Michael Bush
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prestonpaul
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« Reply #9 on: August 29, 2011, 07:58:10 AM »

That's interesting. I haven't been able to find much info on Manley supers, none of the local suppliers seem to stock  an equivelent to the US medium (or Manley) which is why I was asking about WSP supers (192mm or aprox. 7.5").
I am off to one of the suppliers tomorrow to have a chat about things and see what they say.
Paul.
By the way, thanks for chiming in here Michael. I've enjoyed reading your website and found it very informative.
« Last Edit: August 29, 2011, 08:31:43 AM by prestonpaul » Logged
yantabulla
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« Reply #10 on: August 30, 2011, 05:55:13 AM »

PP

I use 8fr full depth boxes.  The thought of lifting 10 fr supers even with brood only, just makes me feel tired.  I agree with previous posters that you need to decide on a standard & stick with it.  Most hobbyists don't have the advantage of lifting equipment to ease the burden of lifting.  You could easily injure yourself trying to lift a 10 fr super.  The other option of lifting single frames for extraction takes time. Shallow supers such as WSP are a good compromise. 

Good Luck
Yanta
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yantabulla
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« Reply #11 on: August 30, 2011, 06:08:09 AM »

PP

This may help you

http://www.bobsbeekeeping.com.au/minibb/index.php?action=vthread&forum=2&topic=9142

The WSP depth is an Aussie standard.

Anything that makes the lifting easier is good.

The bees will sort out the issues inside

Good luck
Yanta
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prestonpaul
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« Reply #12 on: August 30, 2011, 09:08:41 AM »

Problem solved for now.
I went to Redpaths who suggested full size 8 frame supers so that's what I have.
Only 4 for the time being, to be used between 2 hives.
I guess time will tell if I made the right decision.
Thanks everyone for their input.
Paul.
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Mardak
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« Reply #13 on: August 31, 2011, 04:52:29 AM »

If you start with ten framers think about your old muscles in ten or twenty years. Lot of kilograms to lift or shift if the frames are full of brood or nectar. Likewise whatever you choose, if you stick with the same width you can interchange wood ware and implements. Excluders, escape trays, screen boards and so on. Its a real headache taking the wrong equipment when on visits to your boxes if you have multiple widths.
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