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Author Topic: SBB question  (Read 2409 times)
caticind
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Location: Carrboro, North Carolina

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« Reply #20 on: August 22, 2011, 11:33:32 AM »

I use hardware cloth attached directly to the bottom of my long hives for screens.  They sit on an stand that can hold a sticky board or board to close the screen if necessary, but I otherwise I leave them open year-round.  The main reason is IPM  - when the bees groom varroa off,  many of them drop straight through the screen and fall two feet to the ground, where the ants are waiting to eat them.  This has the effect of constantly removing phoretic mites from the hives and reducing the highest point of mite load on adult bees.

Ventilation is a secondary concern, but that's because I live in a warm-winter climate.  If you regularly have high winds or blowing snow during the winter, you'll want to reduce or completely close the SBB during the winter.  You don't have to close it off entirely, just reduce the degree to which wind can blow directly into the hive.  If the air is still inside, the bees will keep the cluster temperature high enough.  Even in a closed hive, just a couple of inches from the cluster the temperature is the same as outside. 
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The bees would be no help; they would tumble over each other like golden babies and thrum wordlessly on the subjects of queens and sex and pollen-gluey feet. -Palimpsest
CapnChkn
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« Reply #21 on: August 24, 2011, 01:22:20 AM »

Quote
Even in a closed hive, just a couple of inches from the cluster the temperature is the same as outside.

I second that!  Caticind, that statement may get you in trouble.  I said something to that effect last year, and it spawned an eight page thread.  We as humans have a tendency to anthropomophise.  The cluster is more like a winter coat than a log cabin.
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"Thinking is like sin, them that doesn't is scairt of it, and them that does gets to liking it so much they can't quit!"  -Josh Billings.
derekm
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« Reply #22 on: August 24, 2011, 02:54:50 AM »

Quote
Even in a closed hive, just a couple of inches from the cluster the temperature is the same as outside.

I second that!  Caticind, that statement may get you in trouble.  I said something to that effect last year, and it spawned an eight page thread.  We as humans have a tendency to anthropomophise.  The cluster is more like a winter coat than a log cabin.
Bees ha e a variety of tactics for dealing with a wide set of conditions what astonishs me is that we insist on giving them such a poor environment that they have to use their cold survival tactics to such a degree that 30% failure is considered a sucess
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If they increased energy bill for your home by a factor of 4.5 would you consider that cruel? If so why are you doing that to your bees?
BlueBee
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« Reply #23 on: August 24, 2011, 03:07:26 AM »

I second that!  Caticind, that statement may get you in trouble.  I said something to that effect last year, and it spawned an eight page thread.  

CapnChkn, are you one that instigated that infamous bee hive temp thread!  evil Smiley evil

Last winter I did put some electric heaters under my screened bottom boards as well.  They are usefull for that purpose too since heat rises.
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indypartridge
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« Reply #24 on: August 24, 2011, 06:40:27 AM »

I live in Pennsylvania.  Winters can get down to zero or below, but rarely.  I read that some people use their SBB's all winter long.  I do understand the concept of ventilating the hive in winter to prevent condensation, but wouldn't a fully open SBB expose the cluster to a little too much cold air and freeze them out?
I leave my SBBs open all winter and we usually have a few "deep freeze" periods of sub-zero temperatures. The last two winters have had some especially long cold spells, and the bees did fine.

Quote from: BlueBee
I would be concerned about wind blowing in through an open bottom and pulling out what little heat the bees are making.
Which is why windbreaks are needed. The point is for the hive to be ventilated, not drafty. You want to have a "dead air" space below the hive.
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CapnChkn
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« Reply #25 on: August 24, 2011, 12:18:09 PM »

Hello BlueBee!  I actually thought the thread was dead, but I see references popping up...

Quote
CapnChkn, are you one that instigated that infamous bee hive temp thread!   evil Smiley evil

Whatever I did, it was not intentional.  2 months earlier I commented in a thread that, "Heat didn't rise, hot AIR rises."  I followed up with, "This is useful for ventilation, but does nothing to keep bees warm.  Bees warm the cluster, not the space around it.  Being in an enclosed space does more to keep drafts and enemies out rather than act as insulation."  Being new to the forum, and re-learning all the stuff I thought I knew about bees, I didn't know Finski's temperament.

In the posts after that he seemed to verify what I had said.  "last winter I had a small 3-frame nuc in firewood shelter. Temp was outside -20C  - -30C. When I looked into the nuc. The cluster occupied the half of the space and the rest of space was full of snow which had born from respiration.
The distance between snow and the cluster was 2 inch. I put into the nuc 3W heater to save my nuc.
Actually the snow acts as insulator like snow in eskimo's iglu."


Well, the highest temperature the snow house gets inside is 50℉ (10℃) so they can't be "heating" it very well if there's snow 2 inches from the bees.  Thus my metaphor, "The cluster is like a winter coat."  You can lay in the snow, sleep in it, or whatever as long as your body core is warm.

I replied I didn't quite understand what his argument was about for the above reasons.  He then double posted, lambasting Americans and British beeks.  I let it go, my Mother has had a computer for 25 years, and I still have to explain how to save a file because she tunes out the "technical stuff..."

In a later post, the now infamous pie fight, I state, "It's not possible for the bees to heat the interior of the hive body by default, that would be impractical.  It is practical to heat the cluster and assume it will create an environment within the cavity that would be more survivable."

This set Finski off, and he seemed to think I didn't know what the temperature was where I was living.  For the next 4 pages he put me, Americans, and anyone who disagreed with him, in a grouchy expletive.  I wasn't going to be haunted by anyone!  Two months and this guy still has a chip on his shoulder.  That was my part in it.

Bottom line is Finski doesn't answer my posts and I don't bother with his.  It seems to be our fault for not speaking Finnish or Swedish.  He says one thing, then the opposite.  He basically ignored what I said, replied to posts I made to other people, and bulled through dissing me all the way.
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"Thinking is like sin, them that doesn't is scairt of it, and them that does gets to liking it so much they can't quit!"  -Josh Billings.
caticind
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« Reply #26 on: August 24, 2011, 04:48:51 PM »

Take it easy CapnChkn...  I agree with your reasoning but there's no reason to relive the argument in this thread.  Let's stick with providing advice to the OP on the uses of screened bottoms.
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The bees would be no help; they would tumble over each other like golden babies and thrum wordlessly on the subjects of queens and sex and pollen-gluey feet. -Palimpsest
derekm
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« Reply #27 on: August 24, 2011, 05:48:28 PM »

.. Also you need some kind of upper ventilation in order to create airflow. A box with one end open does not allow the rising heat to escape.

This is factually incorrect. You can even create air flow in a sealed box. all you need is a temperature difference.
You can get good ventilation with a box open at the bottom, a heat source warmer than the surface of box (bees).
This is how it works:
Warm air rises from the bees reaches the roof. The air is cooled there  and then descends near the sides of the box as its cools. if there is an open grill at the bottom  this air will continue to descend and mix with air near the grill and either exit the hive or recirculate up though the bees again.



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If they increased energy bill for your home by a factor of 4.5 would you consider that cruel? If so why are you doing that to your bees?
CapnChkn
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Location: Huntsville AL


« Reply #28 on: August 26, 2011, 12:10:13 AM »

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"Thinking is like sin, them that doesn't is scairt of it, and them that does gets to liking it so much they can't quit!"  -Josh Billings.
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