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Author Topic: Do it your self formic acid pads  (Read 7303 times)
Finski
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« on: August 08, 2011, 12:48:14 AM »

.
Varroa treatment products for late summer are mostlu thymol or formic acid based.'

Mite away quickly is for example formic acid pad.

You may do easily formic acid pad from 65% formic acid. Big amounts you get cheaply from cattle forage chops. Formic acid is used in fresh hay forage making. 20 litre acid is here about 50 US dollars. That you may use rest of your life.


When you have reduced the hive  to the 2 box position for winter, take 30-40 ml 65% formic adic and
let it absorb in some soft material like kitchen paper or toalet paper.

- To treat one box hive, use formic acid 15-20 ml.


Then put that acip paper into a litre plastic bag and put it on the hive frames. Make a wound in the plastic pad that acid can evaporate from material to the hive air.

- use  rubber cloves when you handle the acid. It scalp your skin with no warning or feelings. It is fatal to bees too and that is why handle acid pads inside the plastic bag.


Treatment is repeated 3-6 times after 1-4 days.


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Finski
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« Reply #1 on: August 08, 2011, 12:50:10 AM »

.
There are plenty of advices in Canada how to make your own pads from formic acid.


http://www.honeybeeworld.com/formic/default.htm
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Finski
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« Reply #2 on: August 08, 2011, 12:58:47 AM »

.
How expencive?

If you bye a 20 litre canister 65% formic acid you get 1000  ( one thousand) 20 ml dose from that.

if price is 50,00 dollars /1000 dose =  5 cents per dose

I think that this is a bottom price to medication.

Then you bye small freezing plastic bags. You may use them again.
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bee-nuts
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« Reply #3 on: August 08, 2011, 03:22:52 AM »

Finski.  What is your percentage (%) of queen loss with formic treatments?  I hear up to 25-30%.  If it kills queens, than it must have hurt those that survived.
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Finski
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« Reply #4 on: August 08, 2011, 09:46:13 AM »

Finski.  What is your percentage (%) of queen loss with formic treatments?  I hear up to 25-30%.  If it kills queens, than it must have hurt those that survived.

Nonsence! It is zero if you are carefull.  If you "info" is rigth, formic acid would be worse enemy to bees than varroa.

You may read about carefull researches where tests have beed made about "queen losses" and "lowered brood making". European varroa group made tests 10 years. Then some hobbiest make his own formula and says that varroa group is wrong.


Thses tests are all in google with clear English languace. No information barrier.

Queen losses exist and brood losses exist, but they happen what ever you do.

I have heard that if you put fomic acid pad over the ftrames, and the queen is under the pad, it may get too strong dose of acid.

But everyone understand that if 20% queen die in autumn, it is a big catastrofe to the beekeeper.




.
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Finski
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« Reply #5 on: August 08, 2011, 10:04:19 AM »

.

ROBYN M. UNDERWOOD AND ROBERT W. CURRIE
Department of Entomology, University of Manitoba, Winnipeg, Manitoba, Canada, R3T 2N2
J. Econ. Entomol. 98(6): 1802Ð1809 (2005)
ABSTRACT The combination of the concentration of formic acid and the duration of fumigation
(CT product) during indoor treatments of honey bee, Apis mellifera L., colonies to control the varroa
mite, Varroa destructor Anderson & Trueman, determines the efÞcacy of the treatment. Because high
concentrations can cause queen mortality, we hypothesized that a high CT product given as a low
concentration over a long exposure time rather than as a high concentration over a short exposure
time would allow effective control of varroa mites without the detrimental effects on queens. The
objective of this study was to assess different combinations of formic acid concentration and exposure
time with similar CT products in controlling varroa mites while minimizing the effect on worker and
queen honey bees. Treated colonies were exposed to a low, medium, or high concentration of formic
acid until a mean CT product of 471 ppm*d in room air was realized. The treatments consisted of a
long-term low concentration of 19 ppm for 27 d, a medium-term medium concentration of 42 ppm for
10 d, a short-term high concentration of 53 ppm for 9 d, and an untreated control. Both short-term
high-concentration and medium-term medium-concentration fumigation with formic acid killed
varroa mites, with averages of 93 and 83% mortality, respectively, but both treatments also were
associated with an increase in mortality of worker bees, queen bees, or both. Long-term lowconcentration
fumigation had lower efÞcacy (60% varroa mite mortality), but it did not increase
worker or queen bee mortality. This trend differed slightly in colonies from two different beekeepers.
Varroa mite mean abundance was signiÞcantly decreased in all three acid treatments relative to the
control. Daily worker mortality was signiÞcantly increased by the short-term high concentration
treatment, which was reßected by a decrease in the size of the worker population, but not an increase
in colony mortality. Queen mortality was signiÞcantly greater under the medium-term medium
concentration and the short-term high concentration treatments than in controls.

Queen Bee and Colony Mortality. The proportion
of queens killed during fumigation differed between
treatment rooms (P  0.001) with zero of 20 queens
dying in the control room, zero of 21 dying in the
long-term low-concentration treatment, Þve of 21
queens dying in the medium-term medium-concentration
treatment, and seven of 21 queens dying in the
short-term high-concentration treatment (Fig. 4). SigniÞcantly
more queens were killed in the short-term
high concentration (P  0.01) and medium-term medium
concentration (P  0.05) than in the control.
Two queens were killed in the control room; one
before the start of fumigation and another several
weeks after fumigation ceased.
Treatment room did not signiÞcantly affect colony
survival as estimated on 17 April, 9 d after the colonies
were moved outdoors (P   0.05). However, there was
a signiÞcant effect of treatment room on the queen
state of surviving colonies (P0.01; Fig. 4). Queenless
colonies were successfully requeened in the spring
after treatment.
Varroa Mite Mean
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caticind
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« Reply #6 on: August 08, 2011, 01:35:28 PM »

Finski.  What is your percentage (%) of queen loss with formic treatments?  I hear up to 25-30%.  If it kills queens, than it must have hurt those that survived.

According to the article excerpt below, the kill rate for queens with medium or high concentrations of formic acid was in excess of 20% (one-third for high concentration).  Low concentration over a long period of time (1 month continuous exposure) had no lethal effects on queens or workers, but achieved only 60% mite mortality.

60% over one month would be an acceptable kill rate for mites provided the hive was not already suffering from a major infestation.  This is a preventative regimen rather than a short-course treatment. 
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The bees would be no help; they would tumble over each other like golden babies and thrum wordlessly on the subjects of queens and sex and pollen-gluey feet. -Palimpsest
Finski
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« Reply #7 on: August 08, 2011, 04:27:03 PM »

Finski.  What is your percentage (%) of queen loss with formic treatments?  I hear up to 25-30%.  If it kills queens, than it must have hurt those that survived.

According to the article excerpt below, the kill rate for queens with medium or high concentrations of formic acid was in excess of 20% (one-third for high concentration).  Low concentration over a long period of time (1 month continuous exposure) had no lethal effects on queens or workers, but achieved only 60% mite mortality.

60% over one month would be an acceptable kill rate for mites provided the hive was not already suffering from a major infestation.  This is a preventative regimen rather than a short-course treatment. 


it depends what you want to see in the article.

You must understand too, that professional beekeepers cannot use the method if it kills hives as much as varroa.

No you are buying commercial products which is actually formic acid and some stuff where acid has been absorbed.

If you are able to debate about dead rate of formic acid methods, you are on wrong way .


 I teached 6 years ago oxalic acid trickling in this forum, and I cannot see a sign of learning.

If you are not willing to learn. No one can help you. But for god sake stop sugar saking and vegetable oild spraying.

.
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Finski
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« Reply #8 on: August 08, 2011, 05:53:29 PM »

.
It seems that Canadiand have made much work to apply formic acid usage.
High weather temperature during cure makes the method dangerous to queens. In lower temperatures no losses were found.

 

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caticind
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« Reply #9 on: August 08, 2011, 06:26:23 PM »

It seems that Canadiand have made much work to apply formic acid usage.
High weather temperature during cure makes the method dangerous to queens. In lower temperatures no losses were found.

That is good to know.  What is the required temperature range for safe usage?
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The bees would be no help; they would tumble over each other like golden babies and thrum wordlessly on the subjects of queens and sex and pollen-gluey feet. -Palimpsest
Finski
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« Reply #10 on: August 08, 2011, 11:45:17 PM »

.
when our guys just gove the dose advice, only temperature was minimum because in August we do not have any more too high values. That was new to me.

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cam
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« Reply #11 on: August 09, 2011, 09:11:08 AM »

A great site if you're going to use formic acid:
http://www.mitegone.com/
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circle7 honey and pollination
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« Reply #12 on: August 09, 2011, 10:45:26 AM »


 I teached 6 years ago oxalic acid trickling in this forum, and I cannot see a sign of learning.


Glad youre not a school teacher

 lau

I would dare say that many beeks on here didnt even own a bee 6 years ago, much less be concerened with sugar shakes or mite levels. I know I wasnt.

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sawdstmakr
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« Reply #13 on: August 09, 2011, 11:35:53 AM »

I just bought 10 treatment of Mite Away from Better Bee, (and per another thread found out how much the shipping costs were, don't let them tell you they don't know how much it costs to ship). I went to use it and read the directions. It strictly states to be used between temperatures between 40 and 92 degrees F. With a warning of high bee kill above 92 degrees. We have temperatures hitting close to 99 every day during most of the day. It will be a while before I can use it.
Jim
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"If you don't read the newspaper you are uninformed.  If you do read the newspaper you are misinformed."--Mark Twain
caticind
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« Reply #14 on: August 09, 2011, 03:15:43 PM »

I just bought 10 treatment of Mite Away from Better Bee, (and per another thread found out how much the shipping costs were, don't let them tell you they don't know how much it costs to ship). I went to use it and read the directions. It strictly states to be used between temperatures between 40 and 92 degrees F. With a warning of high bee kill above 92 degrees. We have temperatures hitting close to 99 every day during most of the day. It will be a while before I can use it.
Jim

Wow...here or anywhere south of me it could be mid October before temps drop that low.  By that point the damage from mites is already done to the bees that will overwinter.  Or if the temps spike, as they often do, then there goes the queen!
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The bees would be no help; they would tumble over each other like golden babies and thrum wordlessly on the subjects of queens and sex and pollen-gluey feet. -Palimpsest
Poppi
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« Reply #15 on: August 10, 2011, 08:44:07 PM »

caticind...   good point!  I'm in central S. Carolina and we can have days over 92 as late as Nov even into Dec...  not normal but the temps would have to be monitored closely.  Doesn't the formic acid pads have to remain in the hive for 3 weeks?
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bee-nuts
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« Reply #16 on: August 11, 2011, 02:03:45 AM »

flash treatments take 24 hours
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Finski
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« Reply #17 on: August 11, 2011, 02:12:57 AM »

caticind...   good point!  I'm in central S. Carolina and we can have days over 92 as late as Nov even into Dec...  not normal but the temps would have to be monitored closely.  Doesn't the formic acid pads have to remain in the hive for 3 weeks?

none cure kill mites under brood cappings. The whole cure takes so 3 weeks brood cycle.

24 hours cure kills only those mites which are free.

Pads reliese fume 4-6 days. It depends where acid have been sucked.
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rdy-b
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« Reply #18 on: September 28, 2011, 10:55:55 PM »

.
Varroa treatment products for late summer are mostly thymol or formic acid based.'

Mite away quickly is for example formic acid pad.

You may do easily formic acid pad from 65% formic acid. Big amounts you get cheaply from cattle forage chops. Formic acid is used in fresh hay forage making. 20 litre acid is here about 50 US dollars. That you may use rest of your life.


When you have reduced the hive  to the 2 box position for winter, take 30-40 ml 65% formic acid and
let it absorb in some soft material like kitchen paper or toalet paper.

- To treat one box hive, use formic acid 15-20 ml.


Then put that acid paper into a litre plastic bag and put it on the hive frames. Make a wound in the plastic pad that acid can evaporate from material to the hive air.

- use  rubber cloves when you handle the acid. It scalp your skin with no warning or feelings. It is fatal to bees too and that is why handle acid pads inside the plastic bag.


Treatment is repeated 3-6 times after 1-4 days.




finski you are on the right track --but your dosage is wrong for the slow release method-- here is a good reference if you are going to use ether the slow release method or the more common flash with a dri loc 50 meat pad
http://www.medivetpharmaceuticals.ca//Guidelines/pmra%20final%20english%20label%20june%203.pdf
 cool  RDY-B
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boca
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« Reply #19 on: September 29, 2011, 02:01:56 AM »

The document says 250 ml over 21-30 days independently of other conditions (size of hive, temperature etc.). One dose fit all.
Finski's dose is similar but allows a freedom to take into account these differences.

Ideally the dosage should be expressed in mg/l in the air of the hive (concentration). Beeks have no instruments to monitor and regulate that. The amount of liquid in a bag is only a very vague approximation of the ideal dosage.

Finski's point is that whatever advantage or disadvantage formic acid has, it is the same with home made pads or commercial products. The difference is only the price.
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