Need Bees Removed?
International
Beekeeping Forums
July 23, 2014, 08:53:50 AM *
Welcome, Guest. Please login or register.
Did you miss your activation email?

Login with username, password and session length
News: ATTENTION ALL NEW MEMBERS
PLEASE READ THIS OR YOUR ACCOUNT MAY BE DELETED - CLICK HERE
 
   Home   Help Search Calendar bee removal Login Register Chat  

Pages: [1]   Go Down
  Print  
Author Topic: Van De Graaff Generator  (Read 2579 times)
BlueBee
Galactic Bee
******
Offline Offline

Gender: Male
Posts: 4120

Location: Mid Michigan


« on: August 07, 2011, 12:39:17 AM »

I know this sounds crazy, but then again, look whose asking  grin

Has anybody ever hooked up a Van De Graaff generator up to a hive and monitored for a change in the mite drop count?  Van De Graaff generators are electro static generators that you’ll often see at science museums.  They are the metal sphere shaped things where the kids’ touch it and their hair stands on end.

What would happen to mites on a bee if a bee was exposed to an electro static build up?  If the mite picked up electrons and the bee was also covered with electrons, then you would have an electrostatic repulsion between the mites and the bees.  This would be the same “force” of repulsion that makes a kids hair stand on end.
Logged
specialkayme
Field Bee
***
Offline Offline

Gender: Male
Posts: 929

Location: Central NC - (somewhere either in Raleigh, Greensboro, or inbetween)


« Reply #1 on: August 07, 2011, 12:38:21 PM »

It's been a few years since my college physics class, so bear with me if my science isn't "up to par."

But if you are claiming that a Van De Graaff generator would repel the mites from the bees, wouldn't it also (at least to some degree) repel the bees from each other? or repel them from the comb? or repel the eggs from the cells?

An interesting thought. Not very practical, even if it did work (which I don't think it would), as each hive's price would go up in price 20 fold. But hey, if you've got a spare hive, and extra cash to front the electricity bill, it would be fun to try out.
Logged
BlueBee
Galactic Bee
******
Offline Offline

Gender: Male
Posts: 4120

Location: Mid Michigan


« Reply #2 on: August 07, 2011, 01:06:23 PM »

Objects of the same charge repel, objects with opposite charges attract.  So if the bees and mites all get a net negative charge, there should be repulsion between everything in the hive just as you suggest.  However the amount of repulsion force is not super strong in this case.  

Case in point, when a kid at the science museum places their hand on an electro static generator, the force is strong enough to stand their hair on end, but not pull the hair out of their head.  Thank goodness!

I would expect a similar thing might occur in a bee hive.  I would think there would be a force of repulsion between the bees and the comb and the mites.  However the bees are relatively large strong creatures whereas the mites are less so.  Maybe the forces of repulsion are strong enough to send the mites flying off the bees while the bees are still able to cling to the comb?

I’m speculating here again!  Like I said, I’m just wondering if any other beeks have tried such an experiment before?  As for the cost, if it did work(?), you might just need to buy one Van De Graaff generator that would be powered from your truck battery and attach it to each hive for a couple of minutes?  I would see no good reason to install a Generator in year hive.  (BTW..Van De Graaffs consume very little electricity..unless you're doing lightning experiments)

I do have a Van De Graff generator in the basement.  If none of ya’ll have tried this yet, I suppose I could dust it off and give it a try one of these days Smiley
Logged
BeeV
New Bee
*
Offline Offline

Gender: Male
Posts: 49

Location: Lafollette Tennessee


« Reply #3 on: August 07, 2011, 02:09:51 PM »


I do have a Van De Graff generator in the basement.


Doesn't everyone?  evil
 
Logged

If at first you don't succeed, skydiving is probably not for you.
AllenF
Galactic Bee
******
Offline Offline

Gender: Male
Posts: 8104

Location: Hiram, Georgia


« Reply #4 on: August 07, 2011, 05:32:03 PM »

Mine's in the attic.
Logged
Michael Bush
Universal Bee
*******
Offline Offline

Gender: Male
Posts: 13563


Location: Nehawka, NE


WWW
« Reply #5 on: August 08, 2011, 12:48:14 AM »

Bees already do this.  It's how they collect pollen.  The get charged and the pollen sticks to them.
Logged

Michael Bush
My website:  bushfarms.com/bees.htm
My book:  ThePracticalBeekeeper.com
-------------------
"Everything works if you let it."--Rick Nielsen
John Pfaff
House Bee
**
Offline Offline

Gender: Male
Posts: 78

Location: Vicksburg, MS


WWW
« Reply #6 on: August 08, 2011, 10:50:49 AM »

I wanna see this...especially at night....
Logged

BlueBee
Galactic Bee
******
Offline Offline

Gender: Male
Posts: 4120

Location: Mid Michigan


« Reply #7 on: August 08, 2011, 06:25:01 PM »

Way to go Allen! 

I knew I couldn’t be the only cool beek out there with a Van De Graaff generator.

Get that baby out of your attic and let’s go see if we can fry some mites and SHB!

Logged
JWChesnut
House Bee
**
Offline Offline

Posts: 228

Location: Coastal Central California


« Reply #8 on: August 20, 2011, 07:23:31 PM »

Attraction of Varroa jacobsoni, parasite of Apis mellifera by electrical charges
M.E. Colin1, D. Richard2, V. Fourcassie2 and L.P. Belzunces1

1Institut National de la Recherche Agronomique, Centre National d'Etudes Vétérinaires et Alimentaires, Centre de Recherches Agronomiques d'Avignon, Station de Zoologie-Apidologie, 84143 Montfavet Cedex, France

2Laboratoire de Neurobiologie de l'Insecte, Université Paul Sabatier, 118 Route de Narbonne, 31062 Toulouse Cedex, France
Received 23 May 1991;
revised 9 September 1991.
Available online 30 September 2003.

Abstract

Precise measurement of the electrical charges carried by honey bee workers allows one to investigate the role of this abiotic factor in bee contamination by the ectoparasitic mite Varroa jacobsoni. A metallic cylinder charged with four different intensities (chosen in the range measured on living bees) of either positive or negative sign was used as a lure. The mite's movements in the vicinity of the cylinder was videotaped and subsequently digitized. Spatial and temporal dimensions of the paths were computed by a specially designed analysis programme. The frequency and nature of the contacts with the lure were also noted.

A two-way ANOVA indicated no significant differences in the characteristics of the paths between charges of different intensities. However, the charge sign was found to influence the following characteristics: immobility, velocity, turning angle standard deviation and sinuosity. In addition, the frequency with which the mite contacted and climbed on the cylinder was higher in the case of negative charge. We suggest that the mites are not merely passively attracted towards the lure by the action of electrical forces. Rather, the detection of charges triggers a change in the movements of the animal which increases the probability to contact its host.

Keywords: Electrical charges; host finding; trajectometry; Varroa jacobsoni; Apis mellifera
Logged
BlueBee
Galactic Bee
******
Offline Offline

Gender: Male
Posts: 4120

Location: Mid Michigan


« Reply #9 on: August 20, 2011, 11:07:49 PM »

You see, I’m not crazy after all   Smiley

Thanks JWChesnut.
Logged
bernsad
House Bee
**
Offline Offline

Posts: 462

Location: NE. Melbourne, Australia


« Reply #10 on: September 12, 2011, 10:26:33 PM »

So, have you tried the experiment? How did it work?
Logged
BlueBee
Galactic Bee
******
Offline Offline

Gender: Male
Posts: 4120

Location: Mid Michigan


« Reply #11 on: September 13, 2011, 06:54:25 PM »

Unfortunately I don’t have mites this summer Sad  Seems like the mites haven’t had a good year here in Michigan.  Michigan State University researchers were paying a premium and willing to drive half way across the state if anybody had a really infested hive to sell this summer.

As for my bee yard, I was changing around my brood configurations this summer and that resulted in some brood breaks which may have stymied the varroa.  Maybe next year I’ll be lucky and have more varroa to play with Smiley Sad

I'll have to defer this experiment to our friends down under for now Smiley
Logged
Sparky
Field Bee
***
Offline Offline

Gender: Male
Posts: 804


Location: Hagerstown MD


« Reply #12 on: September 13, 2011, 08:38:12 PM »

Sounds like a bunch of girls that will have many bad hair days. grin
Logged
bernsad
House Bee
**
Offline Offline

Posts: 462

Location: NE. Melbourne, Australia


« Reply #13 on: September 17, 2011, 07:55:18 PM »

Unfortunately I don’t have mites this summer Sad  
I would have thought that was a good thing!

I'll have to defer this experiment to our friends down under for now Smiley
Unfortunately, by your reasoning, we don't have Varroa in Australia (yet), so we have nothing to experiment with either.
Logged
nietssemaj
House Bee
**
Offline Offline

Gender: Male
Posts: 234

Location: Tallahassee, FL


« Reply #14 on: September 17, 2011, 08:22:28 PM »

BlueBee...

Whats the grating in front of your hive entrance for? (total newbie here).
Logged
BlueBee
Galactic Bee
******
Offline Offline

Gender: Male
Posts: 4120

Location: Mid Michigan


« Reply #15 on: September 17, 2011, 09:09:42 PM »

Bernsad, my unhappy emoticon about a lack of mites was a joke!  I’m happy not to have to deal with them this year, but unhappy I don’t get to experiment with the Van De Graaff generator. 

Yep, I forgot that varroa hadn’t made it to Australia yet.  Lucky you.
Logged
BlueBee
Galactic Bee
******
Offline Offline

Gender: Male
Posts: 4120

Location: Mid Michigan


« Reply #16 on: September 17, 2011, 09:15:19 PM »

The funny looking screen in front of my hive is my attempt at keeping the skunks away from this hive.  Half my hives have bottom entrances and half have top entrances.  The skunks have pestered all my hives with bottom entrances and the raised screen is to try to discourage the skunks from messing with my bottom entrance hives.  It is NOT electrified.  The skunks don’t bother my top entrance ones.

You’ll notice in the photo some mud under the entrance and the holes in the dirt.  This was the work of a skunk before I put the screen in place.

The screens have helped with my skunk problem for now.  Not sure how well they’ll work in the winter when the skunks are more hard up for food.
Logged
S.M.N.Bee
House Bee
**
Offline Offline

Gender: Male
Posts: 131

Location: Montgomery M.N.


« Reply #17 on: September 17, 2011, 10:27:49 PM »


BlueBee

Possably I'm off base here but if I remember correctly wax is a very good insulator. How would the charge be transferred to the bees?

Good luck with your experiment.

John
Logged
BlueBee
Galactic Bee
******
Offline Offline

Gender: Male
Posts: 4120

Location: Mid Michigan


« Reply #18 on: September 18, 2011, 12:27:51 AM »

SMNBee, you are correct.  Everything in a bee hive is a pretty good electrical insulator.  I did say in the OP this was kind of a crazy idea.

I really don’t know how well (or poorly) static charges might distribute over a bee hive.  Static charges move on the skin of an object rather than through the material.  This is one of those times when you probably have to plug in the generator to see what really happens.

Human skin is a pretty good insulator too, yet we know static charges move from out socks to our fingers pretty well in the winter time.  Clouds are also pretty good at generating their fair share of static electricity even though they’re not conductors. 

Honestly I don’t know what might happen when you hook one of these up to a bee hive.  That’s half the fun grin, to see what we can learn.  If you observe something interesting, then you modify the experiment a bit and try again.
Logged
Pages: [1]   Go Up
  Print  
 
Jump to:  

Beemaster's Beekeeping Ring
Previous | Home | Join | Random | Next
Powered by MySQL Powered by PHP Powered by SMF 1.1.19 | SMF © 2013, Simple Machines | Sitemap Valid XHTML 1.0! Valid CSS!
Page created in 0.303 seconds with 22 queries.

Google visited last this page July 09, 2014, 09:57:40 PM