Welcome, Guest

Author Topic: Russells A.M.M or German Black  (Read 4987 times)

Offline VolunteerK9

  • Super Bee
  • *****
  • Posts: 1647
  • Gender: Male
  • Gamecock fan in UT land.
Russells A.M.M or German Black
« on: July 29, 2011, 01:18:02 PM »
Has anyone bought any of these yet? I know that the AMM comes with an aggressive history but I think that the genetics would make a good addition to my yard. Specifically whats their build up like and anything management wise that needs to be considered. I already have a couple of feral hives that one needs to work carefully with lots of smoke that are a dark colored bee, so suiting up specifically for the AMM isnt a concern.

Offline AllenF

  • Galactic Bee
  • ******
  • Posts: 8192
  • Gender: Male
Re: Russells A.M.M or German Black
« Reply #1 on: July 29, 2011, 01:57:20 PM »
They cost quite a bit.   That is all I know.

Offline applebwoi

  • House Bee
  • **
  • Posts: 83
Re: Russells A.M.M or German Black
« Reply #2 on: July 30, 2011, 02:51:14 AM »
Not familiar with AAM.  What are they and if they are aggressive, what is in their genetic package that is appealing?

Offline VolunteerK9

  • Super Bee
  • *****
  • Posts: 1647
  • Gender: Male
  • Gamecock fan in UT land.
Re: Russells A.M.M or German Black
« Reply #3 on: July 30, 2011, 11:55:11 AM »
Not familiar with AAM.  What are they and if they are aggressive, what is in their genetic package that is appealing?

From wikipedia:

Their qualities are:

    significant winter hardiness
    low tendency to swarm
    some lines are very gentle
    defensive against invaders i.e. wasps
    careful, measured "maritime" brood cycle
    strong drive to collect pollen
    high longevity of the worker bees and queen
    excellent flight strength even in cold weather
    possibly hardiness against varroa [2]
 

Although from what I have heard and read the 'low propensity to swarm' is off the mark. Im looking more at the 'possible hardiness against varroa' claim.

Offline rbinhood

  • House Bee
  • **
  • Posts: 278
  • Gender: Male
Re: Russells A.M.M or German Black
« Reply #4 on: July 30, 2011, 04:44:57 PM »
Have some on order from Russell I look forward to getting them and see just how well they preform.  The aggressive part will be nothing new for me.....I have some mutt stinging machines now so a few more really will not make much difference.
Only God can make these two things.....Blood and Honey!

Offline AR Beekeeper

  • House Bee
  • **
  • Posts: 93
  • Gender: Male
Re: Russells A.M.M or German Black
« Reply #5 on: July 30, 2011, 07:14:57 PM »
I read that California wiped out the last colonies of what was considered the only remaining pure A.MM by introducing varroa mites on to the island where they were.  The bees were introduced to one of the channel islands in the 1850's and no others had been put there since.  The bees were killed to return the island to the natural state it had before man arrived.  The bees had no resistance to the mite and the bees were killed in about a year and a half.

Offline AllenF

  • Galactic Bee
  • ******
  • Posts: 8192
  • Gender: Male
Re: Russells A.M.M or German Black
« Reply #6 on: July 30, 2011, 10:06:55 PM »
I read that California wiped out the last colonies of what was considered the only remaining pure A.MM by introducing varroa mites on to the island where they were.  The bees were introduced to one of the channel islands in the 1850's and no others had been put there since.  The bees were killed to return the island to the natural state it had before man arrived.  The bees had no resistance to the mite and the bees were killed in about a year and a half.

Can you cite that for us.

Offline AR Beekeeper

  • House Bee
  • **
  • Posts: 93
  • Gender: Male
Re: Russells A.M.M or German Black
« Reply #7 on: July 31, 2011, 02:03:07 PM »
It was a short article in the back pages of a Bee Culture magazine, about 4 to 6 years ago.  I have given all my back issues away so I can't find the article again.  I have not tried to do a search for bees on the channel islands.

Offline specialkayme

  • Field Bee
  • ***
  • Posts: 935
  • Gender: Male
Re: Russells A.M.M or German Black
« Reply #8 on: July 31, 2011, 02:40:52 PM »
Talking to Russell, his AMM stock is supposed to be as natural as they can get it, while still selecting for a few traits. AMM has a tendency to swarm quite a bit, and can be somewhat aggressive, from what I've heard. Russell has bred them to be calmer, and swarm less, but there is only so much you can breed for when you are keeping the strain pure.

The kicker for AMM is their resilience. AMM has been introduced in nearly every corner of the planet, and has managed to survive. Granted, they don't always flourish, but they have survived in nearly every environment. You can't say that about the Italians, Russians, or Carni's.

I have also heard that AMM has the POTENTIAL to be more resistant to varroa. That doesn't mean that all of them are, but much like Russians, they show some signs of resistance. Again, or so I've heard.

If I can find the cash, I'd like to get an AMM from Russell for next year to try it out. That and a Moonbeam. I tried his Sunkists for the first time this year and I have nothing but good things to say about them. Truly an amazing strain, I can only imagine what he has done with his other stock.

Offline VolunteerK9

  • Super Bee
  • *****
  • Posts: 1647
  • Gender: Male
  • Gamecock fan in UT land.
Re: Russells A.M.M or German Black
« Reply #9 on: July 31, 2011, 07:35:01 PM »
I plan on buying one or two. Hope they work out well.

Offline bee-nuts

  • Queen Bee
  • ****
  • Posts: 1101
  • Gender: Male
    • Nectar Meadows Apiaries
Re: Russells A.M.M or German Black
« Reply #10 on: August 01, 2011, 01:37:37 AM »
You would probably want to keep this stock isolated but thats up to you.  They are big time robbers from what I hear so if you have small colonies in the yard during a dearth dont be surprised if they kill em off.  That is one of the traits that kept their genetic in the wild before mites.  I would love to try them myself but I dont want my new queens offspring getting, HOT, HOT, HOT, when they mate.
The moment a person forms a theory, his imagination sees in every object only the traits which favor that theory

Thomas Jefferson

Offline VolunteerK9

  • Super Bee
  • *****
  • Posts: 1647
  • Gender: Male
  • Gamecock fan in UT land.
Re: Russells A.M.M or German Black
« Reply #11 on: August 01, 2011, 12:36:01 PM »
Just ordered one. Whew! Shipping is a killer. For what I have in one queen, I could have bought a Spring package. Oh well, hopefully all will be good and I will have a hive full of black, pissy bees by next Spring busting at the seems just perfect for a split.

Offline rail

  • House Bee
  • **
  • Posts: 243
  • Gender: Male
Re: Russells A.M.M or German Black
« Reply #12 on: August 05, 2011, 04:55:09 PM »
VolunteerK9 & rbinhood, have you received your AMM queens?
Sirach

Offline rbinhood

  • House Bee
  • **
  • Posts: 278
  • Gender: Male
Re: Russells A.M.M or German Black
« Reply #13 on: August 05, 2011, 07:54:48 PM »
Received my three ladies Wednesday and they were in excellent condition including all the attendants, placed them in hives yesterday morning.
Only God can make these two things.....Blood and Honey!

Offline VolunteerK9

  • Super Bee
  • *****
  • Posts: 1647
  • Gender: Male
  • Gamecock fan in UT land.
Re: Russells A.M.M or German Black
« Reply #14 on: August 05, 2011, 11:23:30 PM »
VolunteerK9 & rbinhood, have you received your AMM queens?


Mine are set to ship on the 8th of this month.

Offline VolunteerK9

  • Super Bee
  • *****
  • Posts: 1647
  • Gender: Male
  • Gamecock fan in UT land.
Re: Russells A.M.M or German Black
« Reply #15 on: August 11, 2011, 03:23:37 PM »
Received my three ladies Wednesday and they were in excellent condition including all the attendants, placed them in hives yesterday morning.

How are yours doing? I just got my email stating that mine was on its way.

Offline rbinhood

  • House Bee
  • **
  • Posts: 278
  • Gender: Male
Re: Russells A.M.M or German Black
« Reply #16 on: August 11, 2011, 03:51:28 PM »
I checked the three hives yesterday and found plenty of eggs an a lot of small larva.  Hope they build up too go into winter nice strong hives.  So far I am very happy with the results.
Only God can make these two things.....Blood and Honey!

Offline VolunteerK9

  • Super Bee
  • *****
  • Posts: 1647
  • Gender: Male
  • Gamecock fan in UT land.
Re: Russells A.M.M or German Black
« Reply #17 on: August 11, 2011, 04:14:05 PM »
My plan is to use the AMM for nuc splits to help keep their temper under control. If my queen survives the winter, Im going to bust the AMM hive back down to a 5 frame nuc with original queen and use the remaining brood/pollen frames for other 5 frame nucs and queen them with my own queens. If they are as bad as they say they are, Im not sure I really want one of them up to full strength :) I just really want to add some of their traits to my gene pool-dont really care about keeping them pure.

Offline Vance G

  • Queen Bee
  • ****
  • Posts: 1155
Re: Russells A.M.M or German Black
« Reply #18 on: August 12, 2011, 12:39:19 AM »
You may find the hybrid offspring to be much hotter than the AMM Dr. Russell has selected for less aggression!  But it's all fun.

Offline VolunteerK9

  • Super Bee
  • *****
  • Posts: 1647
  • Gender: Male
  • Gamecock fan in UT land.
Re: Russells A.M.M or German Black
« Reply #19 on: August 18, 2011, 10:27:14 AM »
Just installed my queen yesterday after finally getting her due to USPS mishaps. She looked great and had the company of several attendant bees. Man are they ill or what? I got stung 42 times just looking at the queen cage. Just kidding..Will see how exciting of a hive this turns out to be next Spring and kudos to Russells' customer service.

Offline specialkayme

  • Field Bee
  • ***
  • Posts: 935
  • Gender: Male
Re: Russells A.M.M or German Black
« Reply #20 on: August 18, 2011, 11:15:39 AM »
and kudos to Russells' customer service.

I second that!

Offline rail

  • House Bee
  • **
  • Posts: 243
  • Gender: Male
Re: Russells A.M.M or German Black
« Reply #21 on: August 29, 2011, 08:32:18 PM »
How are the AMM's doing???
Sirach

Offline VolunteerK9

  • Super Bee
  • *****
  • Posts: 1647
  • Gender: Male
  • Gamecock fan in UT land.
Re: Russells A.M.M or German Black
« Reply #22 on: August 30, 2011, 09:42:05 AM »
I havent checked in on them since I pulled the queen cage. Barring supercedure, I hope all is well. I rarely go back into a hive that Ive requeened for a couple of weeks to let things settle down a bit.

Offline rbinhood

  • House Bee
  • **
  • Posts: 278
  • Gender: Male
Re: Russells A.M.M or German Black
« Reply #23 on: August 31, 2011, 03:14:05 PM »
Will be going to outyard tomorrow to take a look-see, have had to many other things to do as of late to check on them but tomorrow I am going to make time.
Only God can make these two things.....Blood and Honey!

Offline VolunteerK9

  • Super Bee
  • *****
  • Posts: 1647
  • Gender: Male
  • Gamecock fan in UT land.
Re: Russells A.M.M or German Black
« Reply #24 on: September 01, 2011, 09:36:26 AM »
Looks like mine was superceded. Queen cells everywhere. Such are the joys of trying to requeen during a dearth.

Offline specialkayme

  • Field Bee
  • ***
  • Posts: 935
  • Gender: Male
Re: Russells A.M.M or German Black
« Reply #25 on: September 01, 2011, 10:02:44 AM »
Are you sure she was superceded?

It's much more common to have e-cells produced while you are introducing the new queen, and then having them hatched means the queen is not accepted.

Offline rbinhood

  • House Bee
  • **
  • Posts: 278
  • Gender: Male
Re: Russells A.M.M or German Black
« Reply #26 on: September 01, 2011, 12:54:20 PM »
OK!  It is 91 degrees here in Central Al and just came back from checking the girls out.  They are going like gangbusters one hive has 7 full frames of eggs, larva, and brood...and full of little black bees and the other two have almost the same.  They were quite docile and did not seem to be bothered by my proding and moving of the frames as I did a few manipulations of frames stores of pollen and nectar are about normal for the size of the hives and the time of year.

I think they will be going into winter on a fairly good footing and with a little help they will be able to overwinter quite nicely.  I look forward to springtime and see just how well they build up.  One thing I have noticed they look almost like the few hives of German's that I already have but the AMM's disposition seems far more gentle than the German's.  I could get used too having some gentle stock since all of my other hives are the spawn of the devil....."stinging machines."
Only God can make these two things.....Blood and Honey!

Offline VolunteerK9

  • Super Bee
  • *****
  • Posts: 1647
  • Gender: Male
  • Gamecock fan in UT land.
Re: Russells A.M.M or German Black
« Reply #27 on: September 01, 2011, 03:44:44 PM »
Are you sure she was superceded?

It's much more common to have e-cells produced while you are introducing the new queen, and then having them hatched means the queen is not accepted.

Yeah, shes gone. Apparently booted out the door

Offline specialkayme

  • Field Bee
  • ***
  • Posts: 935
  • Gender: Male
Re: Russells A.M.M or German Black
« Reply #28 on: September 01, 2011, 06:23:37 PM »
Vol, I'm not doubting that she isn't there anymore, I'm asking if you are sure that she was superceded as opposed to removed by a rival virgin.

Did you check a few days after you installed the queen to make sure that there were no e-cells?

Either way, contact Russell's about your issue. They can't always help, but usually you'd be surprised ;)

Offline rail

  • House Bee
  • **
  • Posts: 243
  • Gender: Male
Re: Russells A.M.M or German Black
« Reply #29 on: December 27, 2011, 10:07:15 AM »
OK!  It is 91 degrees here in Central Al and just came back from checking the girls out.  They are going like gangbusters one hive has 7 full frames of eggs, larva, and brood...and full of little black bees and the other two have almost the same.  They were quite docile and did not seem to be bothered by my proding and moving of the frames as I did a few manipulations of frames stores of pollen and nectar are about normal for the size of the hives and the time of year.

I think they will be going into winter on a fairly good footing and with a little help they will be able to overwinter quite nicely.  I look forward to springtime and see just how well they build up.  One thing I have noticed they look almost like the few hives of German's that I already have but the AMM's disposition seems far more gentle than the German's.  I could get used too having some gentle stock since all of my other hives are the spawn of the devil....."stinging machines."

How are the AMM's doing???
Sirach

Offline rwurster

  • House Bee
  • **
  • Posts: 86
Re: Russells A.M.M or German Black
« Reply #30 on: December 28, 2011, 02:58:48 AM »
I want to buy a few Russel Sunkist queens and a few Russel Carni queens in the spring but I'm a little nervous about them getting to me alive.  Did everyone who ordered from him get live queens in a reasonable amount of time with the changes in the major carriers next day/second day delivery?  My mentor was upset about how new carrier delivery times were going to affect if his queens would be arriving alive or dead.
Zone 5a @ 4700 ft. High Desert
Facebook Link

Offline Vance G

  • Queen Bee
  • ****
  • Posts: 1155
Re: Russells A.M.M or German Black
« Reply #31 on: December 28, 2011, 10:54:34 AM »
I think you can expect to pay more for uninsured shipping thru a common carrier like fed ex.  The Postal changes are a sad thing for beeks and who knows how bad it will be.