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Author Topic: Cutout Video from a swarm trap into a top bar hive  (Read 2198 times)
Danger Brown
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« on: July 23, 2011, 07:28:16 PM »

Hi folks!
This is 22 minutes of footage from my first cutout. All you will learn is what not to do. The comb was softer than you can imagine and trying to figure out how to hang it from the top bars was tricky at best. Rubber bands would have just pulled right through or squeezed the comb too much.

I've already built frames with 4 sides so I can use rubber bands on my next cutout.
Footage was shot with a Canon t2i and edited with Sony Vegas movie studio HD platinum 10.0
Honey Bee Cutout from a swarm trap into top bar hive(part 1)

And part 2 of the cutout. Learn from my mistakes.
Honey Bee Cutout from a swarm trap into top bar hive(part 2)
« Last Edit: July 23, 2011, 07:48:48 PM by Danger Brown » Logged
Danger Brown
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« Reply #1 on: July 23, 2011, 07:36:30 PM »

It took me a while to figure out how to post a video. Just need to paste the url into the post. I kept trying to embed it.
Whew...
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joebrown
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« Reply #2 on: July 23, 2011, 08:11:18 PM »

I do not know much about top bar hives, but I would think once they attach that comb to the top bar you may want to remove the wood on the bottom. I do not know if they will continue to build comb on the other side of that strip or not.
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alfred
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« Reply #3 on: July 23, 2011, 08:19:56 PM »

Nice Videos, thanks for sharing!!

It looks like you got it to work after some trial and error. Definitley would have been easier with full frames rather than just the top bars. I think that I would have just gotten very frustrated. So good job I say!!
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JP
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« Reply #4 on: July 23, 2011, 10:49:06 PM »

You are really setting your bar high for transferring comb sections into a top bar set up, (pun perhaps implied  grin )

Langs IMO or frames similar to what you would put into a Langstroth hive are best for securing cut out combs.

This guy, one of our members on bee master has done a good may cut outs transferring to top bars and I believe he went to Langs entirely because of the inherent issues with combs collapsing.
Top Bar Hive comb collapse


I did however find your videos to be entertaining. Keep up the good work!


...JP
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Danger Brown
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« Reply #5 on: July 24, 2011, 01:02:01 AM »

Thanks folks. Yeah, I'll make a video of the frames I built for the next cutout. I'm sure it'll be a huge improvement even though my new frames aren't perfect.
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G3farms
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« Reply #6 on: July 24, 2011, 09:11:15 AM »

I am not a top bar fan but do not discourage others from trying it........anyway....

I like the wood strip idea to help support the comb, next time try putting a couple of small nails or tacks on each end of the bar to tie your string to, that way it could be pulled tighter.

I think you did a good job by just jumping right in there.
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see my swarms and cut outs at https://www.youtube.com/user/soapy22bullet?feature=mhee

those hot bees will have you steppin and a fetchin like your heads on fire and your @ss is a catchin!!!

Bees will be bees and do as they please!
Jim 134
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« Reply #7 on: July 24, 2011, 10:05:33 AM »

I keep a few TBH in the 80s but will not do it again but do not discourage others from trying it.

 I see you did not give up  applause applause applause GOOD JOB



   BEE HAPPY Jim 134 Smiley
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Shawn
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« Reply #8 on: July 24, 2011, 06:06:51 PM »

Nice videos danger. Are tehre any update videos or photos? Hey what about the last swarm you got?
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Danger Brown
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« Reply #9 on: July 25, 2011, 04:00:36 AM »

Hey Shawn!
I haven't got anything on film, but this cutout was a big setback to this colony. I definitely made a mistake in waiting to do it.
I gave some of their honey back to them because it looked like they were using up resources. I just put some of their uncapped honeycomb in a small plastic container and set it on the bottom of the inside for them to rob out.
They've got some ants bothering them and I'll be out there tomorrow putting cinnamon where the hive meets the concrete blocks it's sitting on.

That 2nd swarm looks like it's doing pretty well. It's been a few days since I checked on them. I gave them 2 quarts of 1/1 syrup, and there is some alfalfa about 1/4 mile away for them. I'll be out there tomorrow to check on them.

My top bar hives have windows down one side which is real nice. I had one inspection where I didn't open either hive. Just peeked inside and walked away.

They've decided to drink the water from a leaky faucet on the front of my house. Wife can't water her bushes, so I've got to fix the leak now.
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Tommyt
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« Reply #10 on: July 25, 2011, 07:18:31 AM »

I know its way late
If you come across this again
use large hole CHICKEN wire just
wrap each comb and staple or tie it to
the top bars. In a week or so inspect
should be attached to the top bar remove
the wire,If you have to cut a little comb
that could have gotten attached to the chicken
wire basket thats fine.
You look very calm and attentive with those bees.
I wish you all the best with them.
You and your wife worked hard on both the bees and the video
Good Luck
Tommyt
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D Semple
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« Reply #11 on: July 25, 2011, 09:25:17 AM »

Did you ever see the queen again? Thanks for posting the videos.

I like the sounds of Tommy T's chicken wire tecnique.

The other tecnique for securing cut-out comb for Top bars that I think would work, would be to drill half a dozen 3/16" holes just inside the perimiter of the combs, slide in some 1" x 3/16" wide small plastic bushings through the holes, then just lace your string or wire through the bushings asnd over the tops of the bars.   

What's the story behind your "Danger" moniker" Huh

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Danger Brown
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« Reply #12 on: July 25, 2011, 01:56:21 PM »

Hi Tommy T,
Chickenwire sounds good. I assume you've done it. Though I think full frames will be even better.
I promise you though that this stuff was too soft for chickenwire to work well. I can't really express how soft it was. It was all new comb and over 100F. Also, it was in direct sunlight. The last piece of comb fell over and killed some bees while I was trying to remove it. Even with my hand on it, it was bending and falling apart in my hands.
I'm convinced that anything less than full support at the bottom wouldn't have worked very well. I should have done the job at 6am to avoid some of the soft comb problems.

Yes, I've been pretty calm with the bees. Haven't been stung yet. So we'll see if my attitude changes then. I did get a little intimidated when collecting a swarm at night I got covered with dozens bees on my head. Sorry no video of that.

Hi D Semple,
I've only done one thorough inspection and didn't find the queen or see eggs. But there were two large frames covered with bees about 2 layers thick. I could easily have missed queen and eggs there. I did see larger brood.
I'm due to get out there and look for her or brood again. It's been long enough that all brood should have hatched. Should make the job easier.


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Danger Brown
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« Reply #13 on: July 30, 2011, 04:06:23 AM »

Update videos:
Though I seemed hopeful in the videos when I saw eggs, I think it's a laying worker hive. I'm not hopeful now.
Follow Up to Swarm trap Cutout (Part 1)

Follow Up to Swarm trap Cutout (Part 2)
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Tommyt
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« Reply #14 on: July 30, 2011, 08:08:51 AM »

DBrown
 Nice look, see and growth inspection
If I may suggest mark every top bar on one side
mark it on the top side, like the side you stood on
take a hive tool or permanent marker and place a scratch
or X on all top bars on that side, what this does, In case
your doing an inspection and you turn the bar 180 to see opposite
side, you want to be sure to put the bar back the way it came out.
 You almost took what was a brood comb (last one in part #2 and
placed it on the far side of your hive that's not good.
In video #1 I think you may have had eggs down on that side also
so it could have worked?
  I think what you have in general is a hive that's gone through a lot in a small
time, and they are doing there best to rebuild their colony.
 I don't think you have laying worker unless as you where talking saying 'egg egg
egg you saw multiple eggs in ONE cell.
 The queen will only lay the amount of eggs that can be attended too so this is why, when you saw egg,egg,egg I’d bet she was there or close by, that is the area that the comb  was a bit wonky. I was hoping you didn't clip it off to make it straight, you passed.
 You can if you haven't crushed it yet, take the comb you cut back out and make a quick attach back to a top bar and make them straight (take a hot knife) run it across the top of the comb and hold it to the top bar
If it works the bees will be able to use it, or try your new framed top bars and rubber band them back in
 If you try this be sure you put it in, right side up each cell is tilted a bit. If you can figure what way they are tilted by takeing a long hard look or …put a drop or 10 of water in the cells hold the comb up right.
If the water hangs up in the cell your comb is in the up position ,
If it all rolls out the comb is upside down, now I don't mean to say if you put water in the cells they will hold it all ,They won't but in correct position they will hold more than incorrect position.
Only reason I say to do this it will give them comb that your queen maybe able to lay in right now of they could use to store pollen
 The only thing I saw (or didn't see) was very much festooning, I did see one small bit of it happening which makes me feel your colony numbers are low, I am not a Pro so take this all with a grain of salt and hopefully someone else will
jump in with more experience and make some comments.
 The original box(the one you cut from ) looked to be active is there a colony in it again?

Tommyt
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Danger Brown
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« Reply #15 on: July 31, 2011, 12:47:17 AM »

Tommyt thanks very much. I'm convinced it was a laying worker hive. It took me several days to get the video uploaded. I just checked the hive a few hours ago and it's pretty much gone. The comb is mostly empty.

There are about 100 capped brood cells. There are about 100 bees and that's it. There is no queen and most of the bees are gone. There weren't any dead bees. I wonder if they swarmed without a queen.

No, the box they came from is empty too.

It's all bad news with this hive. And it's all my fault for losing the queen. Though of course, the hive failed to build queen cells for some reason.
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D Semple
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« Reply #16 on: July 31, 2011, 09:10:10 AM »


 Though of course, the hive failed to build queen cells for some reason.

I believe the initial shock of the cutout causes this. I've found that if I don't get the queen while doing a cutout they seldom build a queen cell right away. I make a point to add a frame of brood a week for 3 weeks from another hive, starting about day 10 after the cutout if they are queenless, by then they are ready. See Michael Bush's - Panacea advice.

Don't be to hard on yourself Danger, it happens.

Don
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Sundog
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« Reply #17 on: July 31, 2011, 01:45:05 PM »

DBrown

I am tending a cutout put into a TBH also.  I tried mounting the comb in a frame, but the bees didn't want to build upward.  I think it is necessary to contact the comb with the top bar and then the bees will attach it in a few days.  I had good success with large wide rubber bands.  It is a bit tricky getting the tension on each side equal, and they do cause a bit of damage.  I suppose the chicken wire would work, but it may be difficult to remove after it is embedded in comb.  Tommy's suggestion regarding marking the bars is a good one.  I marked mine on top and then later also marked them along the edges on both sides so when I photograph the bars I can see the marks.

Good luck.
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