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Offline Algonam

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new pictures - need your input
« on: July 23, 2011, 01:18:07 PM »
Still a newbee.....1st year...started with 4 frame nucs...2 hives.
I currently have 2 hives, each with 2 levels of 10 frame supers. Now they are almost full, except for frame #1 and #10 on the upper boxes. No queen excluder yet. No visible sign of honey yet. I could be wrong, but I think it is all brood. There is 5 weeks of warm weather left here before Fall starts in with cooler weather. I need to know what to do next!
I'll try to attach pics in a minute.
Thank you.


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Offline Algonam

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Re: new pictures - need your input
« Reply #1 on: July 23, 2011, 01:32:07 PM »


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Offline L Daxon

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Re: new pictures - need your input
« Reply #2 on: July 23, 2011, 01:58:25 PM »
OK.  I'll go out on a limb here and say that looks like capped honey to me, not brood.

Or else it is the tighest brook pattern I've ever seen, with not one missed cell.  Capped brood is usually a bit darker, rougher and has a few spotty non-capped cells where extra honey or pollen is occasionally stored.



This is what capped brood looks like
linda d

Offline VolunteerK9

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Re: new pictures - need your input
« Reply #3 on: July 23, 2011, 02:11:50 PM »
Ditto. LOL. That top picture is a pretty good sign of visible honey as well as the bottom pic. If frames # 1 & #10 are empty, rotate them in towards the middle.

Offline sc-bee

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Re: new pictures - need your input
« Reply #4 on: July 23, 2011, 02:16:56 PM »
 Pictures not showing your mug ---Capped Honey ;)
John 3:16

Online kathyp

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Re: new pictures - need your input
« Reply #5 on: July 23, 2011, 02:28:21 PM »
best test.  stick your finger in it  :-D

that's honey and it looks about ready to extract.  congratulations.

since you have two deeps and no honey supers, you risk being honey bound with that much honey in there.  put your empty frames over whatever brood there is in the bottom box or pull some of those frames and replace.  if you have been feeding, save those frames for feeding back later.  if not, enjoy if you don't think you'll need them for the bees.

you might consider adding a honey super to those hives  ;)

how much brood is in the bottom box?
.....The greatest changes occur in their country without their cooperation. They are not even aware of precisely what has taken place. They suspect it; they have heard of the event by chance. More than that, they are unconcerned with the fortunes of their village, the safety of their streets, the fate of their church and its vestry. They think that such things have nothing to do with them, that they belong to a powerful stranger called “the government.” They enjoy these goods as tenants, without a sense of ownership, and never give a thought to how they might be improved.....

 Alexis de Tocqueville

Offline Algonam

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Re: new pictures - need your input
« Reply #6 on: July 23, 2011, 03:37:00 PM »
Now that you mention it, it is much whiter than the capped brood that I remember seeing just about 1 month ago. To inspect the bottom box, do I remove the entire top box with frames in it? or remove all of the frames, then the box....I am afraid of damaging my precious queens!..whom I am happy with!
My questions are coming from having absolutely no experience......
I want to ensure a strong hive for the winter. If I put a queen excluder on top of the 2nd box now and add on another box of frames/foundation will I be able to extract some honey for ourselves, while allowing the bees to continue building strength for winter?

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Online kathyp

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Re: new pictures - need your input
« Reply #7 on: July 23, 2011, 03:40:18 PM »
Quote
To inspect the bottom box, do I remove the entire top box with frames in it?

you will probably need to pull those honey frames before you try to lift the box....unless you have a discount at your chiropractor :-)  put them in another box temporarily AND COVER THEM or you may start robbing while you are trying to work.
it is very unlilkly that your queen will be on the honey frames, but you may smoke them a little to drive her and her friends down.  then start at the outside and remove the frames.


Quote
If I put a queen excluder on top of the 2nd box now and add on another box of frames/foundation will I be able to extract some honey for ourselves, while allowing the bees to continue building strength for winter?

a couple of things here:  i suspect that you are honey bound.  this means that you may already be behind in brood production.  1st, get some of those honey frames out of the 2nd deep and replace then with drawn comb if you have it, or foundation if you don't.  2nd, i would not use an excluder.  if you do not have drawn comb for your honey super, the excluder will be enough to discourage them from going up there and working it.  then you are back to your orriginal problem.  + you need to get brood production up if you are honey bound and if the queen chooses to go into the honey super, that's not the end of the world.

while you are checking out those bottom boxes look for swarm cells. 

.....The greatest changes occur in their country without their cooperation. They are not even aware of precisely what has taken place. They suspect it; they have heard of the event by chance. More than that, they are unconcerned with the fortunes of their village, the safety of their streets, the fate of their church and its vestry. They think that such things have nothing to do with them, that they belong to a powerful stranger called “the government.” They enjoy these goods as tenants, without a sense of ownership, and never give a thought to how they might be improved.....

 Alexis de Tocqueville

Online kathyp

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Re: new pictures - need your input
« Reply #8 on: July 23, 2011, 03:45:16 PM »
when you get into the bottom boxes take some pictures.  let us see how things look down there.
.....The greatest changes occur in their country without their cooperation. They are not even aware of precisely what has taken place. They suspect it; they have heard of the event by chance. More than that, they are unconcerned with the fortunes of their village, the safety of their streets, the fate of their church and its vestry. They think that such things have nothing to do with them, that they belong to a powerful stranger called “the government.” They enjoy these goods as tenants, without a sense of ownership, and never give a thought to how they might be improved.....

 Alexis de Tocqueville

Offline T Beek

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Re: new pictures - need your input
« Reply #9 on: July 23, 2011, 03:47:25 PM »
If you want to better insure winter survival I'd leave the excluder off this late in the season and stop taking any more honey once the goldenrod starts in your area.

thomas
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Offline mikecva

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Re: new pictures - need your input
« Reply #10 on: July 23, 2011, 05:04:05 PM »
Check your stores for winter. If everything is good (brood and honey stores), I would add a supper but no extractor this year (since it is getting late in the summer.) If you are 'very' new to beekeeping I suggest only holding your frames over the grass if you are sure the queen is not on the frame. Otherwise hold over the boxes so if the queen is on the frame, she will not drop into the grass and be lost.

But the frame you are holding looks good.   -Mike
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Offline Bee-Bop

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Re: new pictures - need your input
« Reply #11 on: July 23, 2011, 05:26:25 PM »
Here's a way to forever tell a frame of honey from a frame of brood, pick one up in each hand, notice the big difference of weight !!

Bee-Bop
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Offline Algonam

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Re: new pictures - need your input
« Reply #12 on: July 23, 2011, 05:56:01 PM »
OK, everything sounds pretty good so far considering this is my first time at this.
How about it if tomorrow morning I do another inspection. This time I'll remove the top box and frames, and take pictures of the bottom boxes and look for brood. When I find which frames the brood is in I'll make sure the frames in the box directly above the brood have new frames (I only have with foundation) so hopefully the queen will move up and lay on the new frames in the upper box?
Is this correct? Did I understand this correctly?
Thanks again!

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Offline sc-bee

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Re: new pictures - need your input
« Reply #13 on: July 23, 2011, 05:56:21 PM »
>Now that you mention it, it is much whiter than the capped brood that I remember seeing just about 1 month ago.

As the honey ages it will sometimes get real dark but the finger test kathy mentioned will definitively take the guessing out of the equation.
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Offline sc-bee

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Re: new pictures - need your input
« Reply #14 on: July 23, 2011, 06:05:20 PM »
>When I find which frames the brood is in I'll make sure the frames in the box directly above the brood have new frames (I only have with foundation) so hopefully the queen will move up and lay on the new frames in the upper box?

Also you can remove honey frames in the brood chamber. Replace them with foundation frames right against the outer brood frames. This will open up the bottom chamber.
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Offline Algonam

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Re: new pictures - need your input
« Reply #15 on: July 23, 2011, 09:18:40 PM »
This all makes sense! Thank you.
I have 1 more picture I forgot to add. It is a picture of what looks like a fine dust at the entrance. Red/brown in colour.
this pic is looking down on to the landing area.


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Offline sc-bee

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Re: new pictures - need your input
« Reply #16 on: July 23, 2011, 10:39:43 PM »
Looks like house cleaning from cleaning old cells ---- best I can tell from picture. Take hive tool and clear it out if you want.
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Offline Algonam

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Re: new pictures - need your input
« Reply #17 on: July 24, 2011, 01:13:18 PM »
TODAYS UPDATE:
We went back to the hives this morning. As a newbee I was too uncomfortable to remove the entire top box so we had a good look and removed a center frame from the top box which was mostly all honey and some swollen blobs that turned out to be brood. We brought this home and have currently extracted close to 3 jars from this one frame. I replaced that center frame with an empty frame with foundation. We hope we didn't bother the queen in the process of sweeping the bees off. At the time I didn't realise there were some brood cells there.
Also we moved other frames around so that the empty frames are now in the middle.
Maybe next time I'll take the next step and remove that top box.
We are now enjoying a taste of out own first honey!!!
We figured we could get away with taking some since the 2nd level boxes are filling up quickly.
Today I will be buying or ordering more frames/foundation to add on the 3rd level.
To ensure we have more than enough in stores for winter can we also leave the 3rd level box on (if they manage to fill it)over winter.
I will attach a picture of that frame in a minute.

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Online kathyp

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Re: new pictures - need your input
« Reply #18 on: July 24, 2011, 01:24:59 PM »
you probably don't want to leave 3 boxes on for winter.  by September you will need to cram them down and arrange them for winter.  give yourself and them a week or so to recover then see if you can get to that bottom box.  if you remove frames from the outside and then move other frames over before moving them, you will not need to worry so much about rolling the queen.  

one of the reasons you need to check the bottom is to see if there is honey over the brood down there.  if there is, the queen may not cross it so the room you make above will just be filled with honey again and no chance that she'll lay.  you also need to know how much is stored below.  they can fool you and leave the bottom kind of empty.  you need to know that before winter.
.....The greatest changes occur in their country without their cooperation. They are not even aware of precisely what has taken place. They suspect it; they have heard of the event by chance. More than that, they are unconcerned with the fortunes of their village, the safety of their streets, the fate of their church and its vestry. They think that such things have nothing to do with them, that they belong to a powerful stranger called “the government.” They enjoy these goods as tenants, without a sense of ownership, and never give a thought to how they might be improved.....

 Alexis de Tocqueville

Offline T Beek

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Re: new pictures - need your input
« Reply #19 on: July 24, 2011, 01:41:29 PM »
Your queen wont immediately begin laying on the empty frames (foundation or foundationless) placed above and around broodnest, workers must draw it out first and generally desire a flow to do so.

When is your first killing frost (end of season)?  I worry about you taking too much honey in Canada at this time of year. 

Removing boxes can be simplified by bringing an empty one (or several) with you whenever visiting the beeyard.  It provides an easy transfer for collecting honey as well as expanding brood, splitting or making NUCs.  I also use cover cloths when splitting apart boxes so when separated bees are covered up and calm.

thomas
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