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Author Topic: UGH!!! Laying worker!  (Read 2829 times)

Offline L Daxon

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Re: UGH!!! Laying worker!
« Reply #20 on: June 09, 2011, 11:44:36 PM »
Yes, Caticind, I realize that is a possibility and am hoping that I find eggs/larva next time instead of a queen cell.  Just sorry the hive was without a laying queen for the past couple of weeks as the flow is on and there won't be as many girls as I would have liked producing honey for ME in the coming weeks.  I am a real slave drive. :evil:
linda d

Offline Wits End

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Re: UGH!!! Laying worker!
« Reply #21 on: June 10, 2011, 08:34:42 AM »
I really appreciate the help from ALL of you. It all makes sense for one scenario or another. Mr Bush's plan made sense for my current situation. But I am still considering the shake and combine answers. My Bee yard is only across the road from my house. All nine hives are relatively close to each other. And I am working 6 days a week at my full time job plus taking care of an aging Mom and a daughter and 2 grands whose husband and father is in Texas fighting those fires. I have lined up my 3 donor hives with the most favored bees in the last 2 so if I do get a queen and renewed hive they will be from another good hive.(My definition of good)
Thanks and you can feel free to keep this thread going because I learn a lot from you guys and I will report back each wednesday at hive check time.
P.S all we are missing here is John Seaborn and the Fat Bee Man!
Jeff and Kellie Houston
Wits End Blueberry and Bee Farm
Greenwood Mississippi

Offline T Beek

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Re: UGH!!! Laying worker!
« Reply #22 on: June 10, 2011, 10:40:02 AM »
So much depends on location and time of year.  I've used kathyp's method of dumping and MB's method of adding brood for three weeks, both successfully but at diferent times of year.

thomas
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Online kathyp

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Re: UGH!!! Laying worker!
« Reply #23 on: June 10, 2011, 11:05:23 AM »
Quote
So much depends on location and time of year.


very true.  i have a short season so trying to get a weak hive going again is sometimes not worth the time..+ i have an intentionally small bee yard so the loss of one hive does not make me feel bad.
.....The greatest changes occur in their country without their cooperation. They are not even aware of precisely what has taken place. They suspect it; they have heard of the event by chance. More than that, they are unconcerned with the fortunes of their village, the safety of their streets, the fate of their church and its vestry. They think that such things have nothing to do with them, that they belong to a powerful stranger called “the government.” They enjoy these goods as tenants, without a sense of ownership, and never give a thought to how they might be improved.....

 Alexis de Tocqueville

Offline FRAMEshift

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Re: UGH!!! Laying worker!
« Reply #24 on: June 10, 2011, 11:09:24 AM »
So much depends on location and time of year.  I've used kathyp's method of dumping and MB's method of adding brood for three weeks, both successfully but at diferent times of year.
thomas

So you mean that you have successfully  used brood addition in the Spring and shakeout in the Fall?
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Offline Scadsobees

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Re: UGH!!! Laying worker!
« Reply #25 on: June 10, 2011, 11:58:53 AM »
And I've successfully used a queen cell to right a laying worker hive.  Yup, all the methods will work some of the time.  And every method has a time.

A time for brood, a time to shake.  A time to feed, and a time not to feed. We could re-write Ecclesiastes for beekeepers.

Too often one method gets universally applied and when it fails people complain that it doesn't work. Some methods work better for some people, some worse. It isn't that any method is better or worse(ok, some are!), they just all need to be used properly in the correct context.

Rick
Rick

Offline FRAMEshift

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Re: UGH!!! Laying worker!
« Reply #26 on: June 10, 2011, 12:59:25 PM »
It isn't that any method is better or worse(ok, some are!), they just all need to be used properly in the correct context.
Rick

So what is the correct context for using a queen cell to fix a laying worker problem?   And just as important.... when would it NOT work?
"You never can tell with bees."  --  Winnie-the-Pooh

Offline Scadsobees

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Re: UGH!!! Laying worker!
« Reply #27 on: June 10, 2011, 01:28:09 PM »
So what is the correct context for using a queen cell to fix a laying worker problem?   And just as important.... when would it NOT work?

With laying workers, nothing is ever guaranteed.

It would NOT work if you don't have any queen cells or access to them.  But if you do,  you also have a frame of brood, and you want to try to save the hive, it certainly wouldn't hurt to try both.
It would also not work if you aren't interested in saving the hive as it is and would rather dump and split.

Laying workers in the fall are pointless to try to save.

There aren't any rules as far as these things go.  It all depends on your preferences and applying some logic to the situation.
Rick

Offline FRAMEshift

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Re: UGH!!! Laying worker!
« Reply #28 on: June 10, 2011, 02:13:01 PM »
  But if you do,  you also have a frame of brood, and you want to try to save the hive, it certainly wouldn't hurt to try both.

That's true.  They are really the same thing, except that in one case one of the eggs is further down the path to being a queen.  But I was thinking that putting a queen cell into a laying worker situation would probably just result in the queen cell being torn down, since the hive thinks it already has a queen.  It's only after the open brood pheromone makes the laying workers stop laying that the hive figures out it needs to raise a queen.

I guess the real question is, why did a queen cell work for you?  What were the circumstances when you did it?  Did you put the queen cell at some distance from the brood nest?
"You never can tell with bees."  --  Winnie-the-Pooh

Offline Scadsobees

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Re: UGH!!! Laying worker!
« Reply #29 on: June 10, 2011, 04:50:49 PM »
[quote author=FRAMEshift link=topic=33355.msg274671#msg274671

I guess the real question is, why did a queen cell work for you?  What were the circumstances when you did it?  Did you put the queen cell at some distance from the brood nest?
[/quote]

No idea.  First hive, second year.  Fairly early spring.  I only knew about the laying worker because all of the drones.  They kept trying to raise a drag queen.  They had a laying worker for at least 3 weeks (queenless for 4+?)

I begged a split from my mentor, and he also found some queen cells in that hive.  I was planning on getting the split going, then shaking all the bees through a queen excluder to get rid of the drones, there were that many.  I stuck 2 queen cells between frames at the top of the 2 box hive, after a generous spray on the cells and in the hive with HoneyBHealthy syrup for smell. 

I later, couldn't tell if the queen cells were successful, they were open.  I assumed failure (since, after all, I read that it was almost impossible to fix a laying worker hive!!) and was halfway through shaking them out when suddenly I saw a queen walking around!  I double checked the frames, and there were good eggs.  AAUGGHH!

I put everything back together and put the queen back, but by that time they decided it was all her fault, killed her, and successfully raised another queen from her eggs. (and set them back another 4 weeks!)

So when people tell me that there isn't a good way to fix things, I say why not try, and don't assume failure. 
Rick

Offline Michael Bush

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Re: UGH!!! Laying worker!
« Reply #30 on: June 11, 2011, 01:35:03 AM »
>So what is the correct context for using a queen cell to fix a laying worker problem?   And just as important.... when would it NOT work?

I often put queen cells in laying worker hives and it sometimes works.  I don't know why it sometimes works and sometimes doesn't.  Maybe it depends on how long they have been queenless.
Michael Bush
My website:  bushfarms.com/bees.htm en espanol: bushfarms.com/es_bees.htm
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Offline BjornBee

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Re: UGH!!! Laying worker!
« Reply #31 on: June 11, 2011, 07:53:13 PM »
Here is some advice.....

http://www.bjornapiaries.com/badbeekeeping.html

Good luck!
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Offline Larry Bees

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Re: UGH!!! Laying worker!
« Reply #32 on: June 11, 2011, 10:30:35 PM »
Thanks! That was some good reading. Larry

Offline Wits End

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Re: UGH!!! Laying worker!
« Reply #33 on: June 15, 2011, 08:16:52 PM »
Update. I placed another frame of brood in Queenless hive today. I saw what could have been a queen cell at the bottom of the frame I put in last week (I didn't pull it out). I hope they aren't in swarm mode! I will take a closer look this weekend. My grandson was calling me back to the house so I was working in a hurry. Turns out he wanted to show me he learned how to swim. I had to go through 2 hives to get the brood. First hive had several frames of brown caps and about 4 or 5 frames of completely filled honey under a honey super. I am going to pull some of that this weekend too and put in some empty foundation. Honey super on second donor hive was about full. Found a good frame of open brood in that one. Looks like I will be pulling some honey off this weekend! I can't wait!
Jeff and Kellie Houston
Wits End Blueberry and Bee Farm
Greenwood Mississippi