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Author Topic: first attempt at a split  (Read 1512 times)

Offline bulldog

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first attempt at a split
« on: May 31, 2011, 10:46:27 PM »
ok, so i pulled 5 frames from a hive ( two brood and two stores, and one drawn comb, mostly empty ) and slapped them into a nuc box for the time being. mind you, my eyes aren't that good so i can't see eggs or really small larva, but i grabbed two frames that looked like they had a lot of larva and not a lot of capped brood, lots of nurse bees on the frames. if they have any eggs or larva of the appropriate age they will do exactly as i hoped, but what if they don't. could i put these frames back into the original hive with the bees on them or would there be a fight ? should i shake the bees off and just replace the frames ? what i really want is a successful split though. i know i should probably just wait and see, but what else can i do if this fails ? thanks in advance.
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Offline iddee

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Re: first attempt at a split
« Reply #1 on: May 31, 2011, 11:09:53 PM »
Think positive. It's going to work.
"Listen to the mustn'ts, child. Listen to the don'ts. Listen to the shouldn'ts, the impossibles, the won'ts. Listen to the never haves, then listen close to me . . . Anything can happen, child. Anything can be"

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Offline wd

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Re: first attempt at a split
« Reply #2 on: May 31, 2011, 11:19:25 PM »
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« Last Edit: June 05, 2011, 12:19:11 PM by wd »

Offline hardwood

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Re: first attempt at a split
« Reply #3 on: May 31, 2011, 11:50:52 PM »
If you use a frame with very little capped brood but can see older larvae (a big white patch) in the center of the frame. chances are good that surrounding that older larvae there are eggs.

Scott
"In the first place, we should insist that if the immigrant who comes here in good faith becomes an American and assimilates himself to us, he shall be treated on an exact equality with everyone else, for it is an outrage to discriminate against any such man because of creed, or birthplace, or origin. But this is predicated upon the person's becoming in every facet an American, and nothing but an American...There can be no divided allegiance here. Any man who says he is an American, but something else also, isn't an American at all. We have room for but one flag, the American flag...We have room for but one language here, and that is the English language...And we have room for but one sole loyalty and that is a loyalty to the American people."

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Offline hardwood

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Re: first attempt at a split
« Reply #4 on: May 31, 2011, 11:53:39 PM »
BTW, check in 3-4 days to see if they've started drawing queen cells. If not, give them another frame. Frames with open brood have a majority of nurse bees on them. You can transfer nurse bees back and forth wit little conflict.

Scott
"In the first place, we should insist that if the immigrant who comes here in good faith becomes an American and assimilates himself to us, he shall be treated on an exact equality with everyone else, for it is an outrage to discriminate against any such man because of creed, or birthplace, or origin. But this is predicated upon the person's becoming in every facet an American, and nothing but an American...There can be no divided allegiance here. Any man who says he is an American, but something else also, isn't an American at all. We have room for but one flag, the American flag...We have room for but one language here, and that is the English language...And we have room for but one sole loyalty and that is a loyalty to the American people."

Theodore Roosevelt 1907

Offline schawee

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Re: first attempt at a split
« Reply #5 on: June 01, 2011, 02:39:25 AM »
GIVE IT  A CHANCE.LIKE HARDWOOD SAID CHECK IN 4OR5 DAYS TO SEE IF THEY STARTED QUEEN CELLS.     SCHAWEE
BEEKEEPER OF THE SWAMP

Offline VolunteerK9

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Re: first attempt at a split
« Reply #6 on: June 01, 2011, 08:37:08 AM »
I think its much easier to take the queen with the 5 frame nuc and let the parent colony raise their own queen. The parent colony has more resources and more options available to get good queen cells started.

Offline Larry Bees

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Re: first attempt at a split
« Reply #7 on: June 01, 2011, 03:37:04 PM »
I think its much easier to take the queen with the 5 frame nuc and let the parent colony raise their own queen. The parent colony has more resources and more options available to get good queen cells started.

I guess that you have done this. Do they always raise a new queen?

I was afraid that they might not realize that the queen was gone in time to make a new queen cell.

Larry

Offline VolunteerK9

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Re: first attempt at a split
« Reply #8 on: June 01, 2011, 03:52:27 PM »
Ive done a few but in no way, shape, or form have the experience that some of the beeks on here have. I just think its way easier for a 3 medium hive (what I split) to make a new queen than a 5 frame (Population and store wise).

Yeah, they know they are queenless real quick. If your interested in knowing how quick they realize it, on your next inspection, place the frame with the queen on it in a nuc for a few minutes while your checking your other frames. Their whole demeanor changes.

Offline Larry Bees

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Re: first attempt at a split
« Reply #9 on: June 01, 2011, 04:01:01 PM »
Thanks, I have been wanting to try that (remove queen) cause about half of the splits that I have done this year have failed.

I saw two swarm cells in one hive earlier this year and was able to catch the queen before she left and put her in a nuc and she's doing fine. Also the queen from the cell hatched, mated and she's laying eggs and also doing fine.

Larry

Offline VolunteerK9

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Re: first attempt at a split
« Reply #10 on: June 01, 2011, 04:05:01 PM »
Im just really starting to get into nucs. At first I was somewhat intimidated, but now after having done a few, Im finding that they are a blast and super easy to get going. Hopefully my package bee woes will be a thing of the past and I can just add a few queens with new genetics on occasion.

Offline Larry Bees

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Re: first attempt at a split
« Reply #11 on: June 01, 2011, 04:12:14 PM »
I was helping a guy with his bees for a couple of years before getting my own, and making splits was the part that I enjoyed the most. I feel badly for the people who have been having problems with the package bees. The guy that I was helping gave me a few nucs with eggs and got me started. Larry

Offline bulldog

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Re: first attempt at a split
« Reply #12 on: June 01, 2011, 07:14:08 PM »
thanks everybody. i guess i just really didn't want to pull 5 frames out of the hive for nothing. am i mistaken or when a bee is face down in a cell  ( on a brood frame ) is she feeding a little one ? because i did notice a few of those, but can't remember if they were on one of the frames i grabbed or not.
Confucius say "He who stand on toilet is high on pot"

Offline iddee

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Re: first attempt at a split
« Reply #13 on: June 01, 2011, 08:30:57 PM »
She could be doing anything. Feeding larva, cleaning an empty cell, processing nectar, or storing or retrieving pollen. Maybe just making bee bread for future feeding.
"Listen to the mustn'ts, child. Listen to the don'ts. Listen to the shouldn'ts, the impossibles, the won'ts. Listen to the never haves, then listen close to me . . . Anything can happen, child. Anything can be"

*Shel Silverstein*

Offline bulldog

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Re: first attempt at a split
« Reply #14 on: June 07, 2011, 12:25:39 AM »
well, after 5 days i checked and it would appear it was a success. there was one capped queen cell already ( isn't that a bit too soon ? even if it was capped that morning that would mean it was approximately 4 days old when they began feeding it as a queen ) and three more queen cups, two of which i saw larva in. one i couldn't tell if it had anything. i guess the first to  hatch will kill the others. or can i save them somehow ? i don't think i can make a second split, but it just seems like a good waste of a potential queen. oh well.

should i wait for the queen to mate and begin laying to move them into a new house ?
Confucius say "He who stand on toilet is high on pot"

Offline Larry Bees

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Re: first attempt at a split
« Reply #15 on: June 15, 2011, 06:09:22 PM »
I think its much easier to take the queen with the 5 frame nuc and let the parent colony raise their own queen. The parent colony has more resources and more options available to get good queen cells started.

Nine days ago. I took the queen out of four of my hives to make splits and put them in 5 frame nucs. I checked them this morning and the queens are all laying eggs and doing good.

The four hives that had their queens removed, all have several queen cells in them and it looks like this may be a success. Since I have so much trouble seeing eggs, this may be my solution for making splits.

Larry

Offline FRAMEshift

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Re: first attempt at a split
« Reply #16 on: June 15, 2011, 07:00:11 PM »
even if it was capped that morning that would mean it was approximately 4 days old when they began feeding it as a queen )

The egg that queen cell was made from hatched 3 days after it was laid.  Then the larva aged another day or two before it was selected to be a queen.  Then 4 more days before your inspection.  That would mean the capped queen was 8 or 9 days old when capped.  That is exactly what it should be.


Quote
should i wait for the queen to mate and begin laying to move them into a new house ?

Either move them before the queen emerges from the queen cell or wait a couple of weeks so she has mated.  You don't want to move the hive while the virgin queen is out on her mating flight.  That would give you a queenless hive.
"You never can tell with bees."  --  Winnie-the-Pooh

 

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