Need Bees Removed?
International
Beekeeping Forums
October 20, 2014, 02:57:42 PM *
Welcome, Guest. Please login or register.
Did you miss your activation email?

Login with username, password and session length
News: 24/7 Ventrilo Voice chat -click for instructions and free software here
 
   Home   Help Search Calendar bee removal Login Register Chat  

Pages: [1] 2  All   Go Down
  Print  
Author Topic: UGH!!! Laying worker!  (Read 2677 times)
Wits End
House Bee
**
Offline Offline

Gender: Male
Posts: 99


Location: Carrollton Mississippi


« on: June 07, 2011, 06:46:20 PM »

Has no one found a cure for laying worker? I watched one of my spring swarms in a five frame nuc with sugar water for several weeks. When they had all five frames drawn I put them in a 10 frame hive body. Today the same frames were drawn and dry. Some spotty drone brood and some pissy bees. I saw dark larvae. not white like most. If I put a frame of eggs in there will they just let them do their thing or will they try to make a real Queen? If I put a queen cell in there they will kill it. If I put a new Queen in they are gonna give her a tough time. So what? I know you guys can help!
Logged

Jeff and Kellie Houston
Wits End Blueberry and Bee Farm
Greenwood Mississippi
hardwood
Galactic Bee
******
Offline Offline

Gender: Male
Posts: 3482


Location: Osteen, Fl (just south of Daytona)

Alysian Apiaries youtube.com/MrBeedude


« Reply #1 on: June 07, 2011, 06:58:04 PM »

Dark larvae?? You might have a bigger problem than laying workers. Can you describe it in more detail or give us a pic?

Scott
Logged

"In the first place, we should insist that if the immigrant who comes here in good faith becomes an American and assimilates himself to us, he shall be treated on an exact equality with everyone else, for it is an outrage to discriminate against any such man because of creed, or birthplace, or origin. But this is predicated upon the person's becoming in every facet an American, and nothing but an American...There can be no divided allegiance here. Any man who says he is an American, but something else also, isn't an American at all. We have room for but one flag, the American flag...We have room for but one language here, and that is the English language...And we have room for but one sole loyalty and that is a loyalty to the American people."

Theodore Roosevelt 1907
Wits End
House Bee
**
Offline Offline

Gender: Male
Posts: 99


Location: Carrollton Mississippi


« Reply #2 on: June 07, 2011, 08:02:08 PM »

Scott they don't look diseased or any thing. They almost look like tiny rolly pollies. Or is that a Mississippi term? I will get a pic or video tomorrow and let you see. Of course it was around 100 degrees and I was sweating like a pig after 9 other hives. I've only had a laying worker once before but after trying everything I could it was a lost cause.
Logged

Jeff and Kellie Houston
Wits End Blueberry and Bee Farm
Greenwood Mississippi
Vance G
Queen Bee
****
Offline Offline

Posts: 1140

Location: Great Falls,Montana


« Reply #3 on: June 07, 2011, 09:50:51 PM »

I would try giving them a frame of open brood with no adhering bees.  The brood gives off pheromones that should slow down the laying workers and make them amenable to accepting a new queen a couple days later.  If that doesn't work or you don't want to take a chance of wasting a queen, do a newspaper combine with a good queenrite colony and that will cure the situation and you can make a split to get you numbers back if that is important to you.  A few strong colonies make a lot more honey than more weak hives. 
Logged
Michael Bush
Universal Bee
*******
Offline Offline

Gender: Male
Posts: 13748


Location: Nehawka, NE


WWW
« Reply #4 on: June 08, 2011, 06:26:30 AM »

>Has no one found a cure for laying worker?

Yes.  A frame of eggs and open brood every week for three weeks.  I wish I had a dollar for every time I say that...
Logged

Michael Bush
My website:  bushfarms.com/bees.htm
My book:  ThePracticalBeekeeper.com
-------------------
"Everything works if you let it."--Rick Nielsen
KD4MOJ
Field Bee
***
Offline Offline

Gender: Male
Posts: 689


Location: Tallahassee, FL 30° 27' 16" N / 84° 20' 48" W

Bees... Motorcycles... amateur radio...


WWW
« Reply #5 on: June 08, 2011, 10:03:13 AM »

>Has no one found a cure for laying worker?

Yes.  A frame of eggs and open brood every week for three weeks.  I wish I had a dollar for every time I say that...


Michael, an eDollar is on the way!

...DOUG
KD4MOJ
Logged
kathyp
Universal Bee
*******
Offline Offline

Gender: Female
Posts: 15192


Location: boring, oregon


« Reply #6 on: June 08, 2011, 10:09:01 AM »

if you don't want to rob your other hive every week, just shake those bees out and let them join other hives.  it's the easiest way to deal with them.
Logged

.....The greatest changes occur in their country without their cooperation. They are not even aware of precisely what has taken place. They suspect it; they have heard of the event by chance. More than that, they are unconcerned with the fortunes of their village, the safety of their streets, the fate of their church and its vestry. They think that such things have nothing to do with them, that they belong to a powerful stranger called “the government.” They enjoy these goods as tenants, without a sense of ownership, and never give a thought to how they might be improved.....

 Alexis de Tocqueville
Wits End
House Bee
**
Offline Offline

Gender: Male
Posts: 99


Location: Carrollton Mississippi


« Reply #7 on: June 08, 2011, 05:03:40 PM »

I have 8 hives so I am headed to the bee yard right now to try mr. Bush' method.
Logged

Jeff and Kellie Houston
Wits End Blueberry and Bee Farm
Greenwood Mississippi
TwoHoneys
House Bee
**
Offline Offline

Gender: Female
Posts: 356


Location: Cincinnati, Ohio


WWW
« Reply #8 on: June 08, 2011, 05:17:49 PM »

if you don't want to rob your other hive every week, just shake those bees out and let them join other hives.  it's the easiest way to deal with them.

kathyp, how does this work exactly? Just shake all the bees from the hive and remove the box? Then the shaken bees simply join another nearby hive?

-Liz
Logged

"In a dream I returned to the river of bees" W.S. Merwin
caticind
House Bee
**
Offline Offline

Posts: 385

Location: Carrboro, North Carolina

Nothing sweeter...


« Reply #9 on: June 08, 2011, 05:32:39 PM »

if you don't want to rob your other hive every week, just shake those bees out and let them join other hives.  it's the easiest way to deal with them.

kathyp, how does this work exactly? Just shake all the bees from the hive and remove the box? Then the shaken bees simply join another nearby hive?

-Liz

Yes, but!  This is a last resort method to dealing with laying workers, or one that you use if you don't mind losing a hive.  Because you are giving up on that hive for the year in order to solve the problem quickly.
Logged

The bees would be no help; they would tumble over each other like golden babies and thrum wordlessly on the subjects of queens and sex and pollen-gluey feet. -Palimpsest
Wits End
House Bee
**
Offline Offline

Gender: Male
Posts: 99


Location: Carrollton Mississippi


« Reply #10 on: June 08, 2011, 05:41:33 PM »

Okay! Put a frame of young brood in the queenless hive from the super healthy hive next to it. Sorry Scott I forgot to take the video camera. The frames in the weak hive have black pierco foundation in them so I think what I was seeing was just a glint of nectar in some frames and not dark larvae. The hives are in the shade this time of day so its hard to tell unless you walk out into the sunlight. Stay tuned!
Logged

Jeff and Kellie Houston
Wits End Blueberry and Bee Farm
Greenwood Mississippi
kathyp
Universal Bee
*******
Offline Offline

Gender: Female
Posts: 15192


Location: boring, oregon


« Reply #11 on: June 08, 2011, 06:38:57 PM »

you are going to have to put a frame in each week.  it's not just one frame and forget it.  by the time you catch a laying worker hive a lot of times it's not worth saving anyway.  that's your call.  i'd rather dump the hive and let the bees strengthen other hives rather than rob from other hives to save a really weak hive.

up to you and depends on what you have...and what you want.
Logged

.....The greatest changes occur in their country without their cooperation. They are not even aware of precisely what has taken place. They suspect it; they have heard of the event by chance. More than that, they are unconcerned with the fortunes of their village, the safety of their streets, the fate of their church and its vestry. They think that such things have nothing to do with them, that they belong to a powerful stranger called “the government.” They enjoy these goods as tenants, without a sense of ownership, and never give a thought to how they might be improved.....

 Alexis de Tocqueville
TwoHoneys
House Bee
**
Offline Offline

Gender: Female
Posts: 356


Location: Cincinnati, Ohio


WWW
« Reply #12 on: June 08, 2011, 08:03:52 PM »

you are going to have to put a frame in each week.  it's not just one frame and forget it.  by the time you catch a laying worker hive a lot of times it's not worth saving anyway.  that's your call.  i'd rather dump the hive and let the bees strengthen other hives rather than rob from other hives to save a really weak hive.


This is my dilemma. I've got four limping hives that are sucking larva resources from my few strong hives. Every week I question whether or not it's worth this transfer of resources. Maybe I'll experiment...

If I decide to shake the bees from the laying worker hive, do I shake them in front of the hive I want them to strengthen? 

-Liz
Logged

"In a dream I returned to the river of bees" W.S. Merwin
kathyp
Universal Bee
*******
Offline Offline

Gender: Female
Posts: 15192


Location: boring, oregon


« Reply #13 on: June 08, 2011, 08:16:43 PM »

you can.  i take mine away because then the bees fly back toward the other hives (mine are all together) and there are fewer trying to climb right back into what i shook.  i also take an empty box and towel out so that as i clear a frame, i can put it in the empty and cover the box.  when i'm done, i just pick up the boxes and put them away.  fortunately, i have only had to do it a couple of times.....
Logged

.....The greatest changes occur in their country without their cooperation. They are not even aware of precisely what has taken place. They suspect it; they have heard of the event by chance. More than that, they are unconcerned with the fortunes of their village, the safety of their streets, the fate of their church and its vestry. They think that such things have nothing to do with them, that they belong to a powerful stranger called “the government.” They enjoy these goods as tenants, without a sense of ownership, and never give a thought to how they might be improved.....

 Alexis de Tocqueville
Michael Bush
Universal Bee
*******
Offline Offline

Gender: Male
Posts: 13748


Location: Nehawka, NE


WWW
« Reply #14 on: June 09, 2011, 01:15:02 AM »

http://www.bushfarms.com/beespanacea.htm
http://www.bushfarms.com/beeslayingworkers.htm

There are few solutions as universal in their application and their success than adding a frame of open brood every week for three weeks. It is a virtual panacea for any queen issues. It gives the bees the pheromones to suppress laying workers. It gives them more workers coming in during a period where there is no laying queen. It does not interfere if there is a virgin queen. It gives them the resources to rear a queen. It is virtually foolproof and does not require finding a queen or seeing eggs. If you have any issue with queenrightness, no brood, worried that there is no queen, this is the simple solution that requires no worrying, no waiting, no hoping. You just give them what they need to resolve the situation. If you have any doubts about the queenrightness of a hive, give them some open brood and sleep well. Repeat once a week for two more weeks if you still aren't sure. By then things will be fine.

If you are afraid of transferring the queen from the queenright hive, because you are not good at finding queens, then shake or brush all the bees off before you give it to them.

If you are concerned about taking eggs from another new package or small colony, keep in mind that bees have little invested in eggs and the queen can lay far more eggs than a small colony can warm, feed and raise. Taking a frame of eggs from a small struggling new hive and swapping it for an empty comb or any drawn comb will have little impact on the donor colony and may save the recipient if they are indeed queenless. If the recipient didn't need a queen it will fill in the gap while the new queen gets mated and not interfere with things.
Logged

Michael Bush
My website:  bushfarms.com/bees.htm
My book:  ThePracticalBeekeeper.com
-------------------
"Everything works if you let it."--Rick Nielsen
TwoHoneys
House Bee
**
Offline Offline

Gender: Female
Posts: 356


Location: Cincinnati, Ohio


WWW
« Reply #15 on: June 09, 2011, 06:26:06 AM »

The panacea for almost all beekeepers who are in a sort of panic about queenlessness...

Once each week for three straight weeks: Heed Michael Bush's seasoned, informed, even-toned, well-reasoned advice. You must ask the same questions each week, and Michael Bush must respond to it the same way every single week for three straight weeks. By the end of the third week, things will be right again. I know, it seems like a pain, but it works. Everything works, if you let it.

-Liz

P.S. I have to say that there are a number of seasoned, informed, etc. beekeepers on this forum (like kathyp and others) whom I also admire. A lot. I don't mean for this post to minimize my respect for them...seriously. Thanks to everyone.
Logged

"In a dream I returned to the river of bees" W.S. Merwin
Michael Bush
Universal Bee
*******
Offline Offline

Gender: Male
Posts: 13748


Location: Nehawka, NE


WWW
« Reply #16 on: June 09, 2011, 07:30:40 AM »

>You must ask the same questions each week, and Michael Bush must respond to it the same way every single week for three straight weeks.

Now I understand...
Logged

Michael Bush
My website:  bushfarms.com/bees.htm
My book:  ThePracticalBeekeeper.com
-------------------
"Everything works if you let it."--Rick Nielsen
kathyp
Universal Bee
*******
Offline Offline

Gender: Female
Posts: 15192


Location: boring, oregon


« Reply #17 on: June 09, 2011, 10:04:55 AM »

Quote
I have to say that there are a number of seasoned, informed, etc. beekeepers on this forum (like kathyp and others) whom I also admire.

the nice thing about this site is that you will get lots of ideas and you can pick the ones that work for you.  if what you do doesn't work, you have other things to try.  there are many on here more experienced than i, and if you have to choose a position default to theirs.  grin  what i have learned over these last years either came from my own mistakes, experimentation, or, more likely...these guys!
Logged

.....The greatest changes occur in their country without their cooperation. They are not even aware of precisely what has taken place. They suspect it; they have heard of the event by chance. More than that, they are unconcerned with the fortunes of their village, the safety of their streets, the fate of their church and its vestry. They think that such things have nothing to do with them, that they belong to a powerful stranger called “the government.” They enjoy these goods as tenants, without a sense of ownership, and never give a thought to how they might be improved.....

 Alexis de Tocqueville
L Daxon
Field Bee
***
Offline Offline

Gender: Female
Posts: 669


Location: Oklahoma City


« Reply #18 on: June 09, 2011, 11:14:32 AM »

Don't mean to hijack this thread, but...

This is my second year on this site and I am beginning to see how you wonderfully patient people answer the same questions over and over and over.  Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. You are helping a lot of beekps.

And the info on this thread helped me.  I have a suspected queenless hive.  I put in one frame of eggs and was distressed when at the end of 7 days I didn't have a queen cell.  So I put in a second frame Tuesday, but now I know I will have to do a third, if I don't see eggs or a queen cell on next week's inspection.  I probably wouldn't have tried a third time.

Linda D
Logged

linda d
caticind
House Bee
**
Offline Offline

Posts: 385

Location: Carrboro, North Carolina

Nothing sweeter...


« Reply #19 on: June 09, 2011, 12:30:37 PM »

Linda,

Keep in mind that if your suspected queenless hive continues not to build queen cells, the most likely reason is because they are not actually queenless.  The eggs and brood still help the hive, but no queen cells doesn't mean failure - just more information for you as you try to figure out what's going on.

Logged

The bees would be no help; they would tumble over each other like golden babies and thrum wordlessly on the subjects of queens and sex and pollen-gluey feet. -Palimpsest
Pages: [1] 2  All   Go Up
  Print  
 
Jump to:  

Beemaster's Beekeeping Ring
Previous | Home | Join | Random | Next
Powered by MySQL Powered by PHP Powered by SMF 1.1.20 | SMF © 2013, Simple Machines | Sitemap Valid XHTML 1.0! Valid CSS!
Page created in 0.258 seconds with 21 queries.

Google visited last this page October 01, 2014, 10:15:31 AM