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Author Topic: Speaking up for certification  (Read 4727 times)
iddee
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« Reply #40 on: June 11, 2011, 07:42:48 PM »

Yes, Master..........
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"Listen to the mustn'ts, child. Listen to the don'ts. Listen to the shouldn'ts, the impossibles, the won'ts. Listen to the never haves, then listen close to me . . . Anything can happen, child. Anything can be"

*Shel Silverstein*
bud1
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« Reply #41 on: June 11, 2011, 09:30:12 PM »

scads--woodstock-- would that bee lots of people out enjoying themselves. like a young lady quivering all over as she hives her first swarm or some one who has never looked in a hive and mentions it  and another like jp, shawee, allan buckley, scott or mike holland take them out and go through a hive and explain everything hands on not sitting around a table getting the proper technique explaied to them which you will never see happning here.we also have our pet comercial guy (bruce hanson 3500 hives) explain all the ends and outs or the big comercial end of bee keeping.
we even have a little music and some fine meed
sorry Miss Tilly
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joebrown
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« Reply #42 on: June 12, 2011, 12:38:41 AM »

BjornBee,

For someone who is so against certifications and titles, you sure do proudly post on your website that you are a "Certified Breeder of Northern Raised Queens and Nucs." Does this certification make you a better queen and nuc breeder than someone who is not certified? If so, how and why? Just wondering!
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Finski
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« Reply #43 on: June 12, 2011, 02:06:20 AM »

.
In Finnish beekeeping forum my tittle is "six  star airforce marshall". Coud I be better?

My airforces are bees and I am the highest commander. That suits to me.
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deknow
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« Reply #44 on: June 12, 2011, 06:12:54 AM »

i can identify with both of the extremes on this one...let me offer a thought.
the problem is not the process of certification...learninv is good.
once you have a group called "certified master beekeeper" a higher standard is implied.  when you have some individuals in that group that do not live up to that standard (can't identify foulbrood, gives poor advice, demonstrates a lack of understanding, etc) -while-  boasting about their title or claiming superior expertise...it reflects badly on all who use the title....just like a single dirty  cop will make all on the force suspect.
we ve all heard horror stories or experienced this with master beekeepers from time to time.
this happens whenever there is a group where some individuals come up short...priests, boy scout leaders, teachers....most are well meaning and trustworthy....but those that are not make all suspect.
there is plenty of bad advice coming from non master beekeepers, but since they are not part of a small identifiable group (claiming to be extra knowldgeable), they don't stand out in the same way.
deknow
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BjornBee
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« Reply #45 on: June 12, 2011, 06:35:45 AM »

BjornBee,

For someone who is so against certifications and titles, you sure do proudly post on your website that you are a "Certified Breeder of Northern Raised Queens and Nucs." Does this certification make you a better queen and nuc breeder than someone who is not certified? If so, how and why? Just wondering!


I was waiting for someone to go down this path.  Wink

If you have read my posts over time, I have clearly stated time and time again, that if given the chance, I would vote to end the state inspection program. Since I am legally forced to pay a fee, get inspected, and play along to stay in business, then yes, I should also benefit from letting others know I do in fact have that piece of paper. I would rather allow free market forces and the merit of any business, including myself, to be judged on the quality and history of my product. Not some piece of paper issued by a part-time inspector who happened to take the job as summer employment while working on a college degree.

Does it make me better than the next guy? Not for the bases of a piece of paper. The consumer and my product distinguishes that.

Now we all do live in the real world. And from the amount of posts on this thread from folks who value titles and certification as way more than what they are worth, is it smart business to list the fact that my operation is certified? You bet. I'll play that stupid game. But I would rather have much more intelligent folks who would buy from me for better reasons that that.  Wink

Does being certified make my bees any better for the mere fact that some inspector visited my place for an hour? No. Just like the bottle of honey produced by a master beekeeper is no better than the next beekeeper who did not take the time, have the money, or has a fear of public speaking, thus not allowing him to boast of some title.
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Hemlock
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« Reply #46 on: June 12, 2011, 12:12:36 PM »

I'm trying to put this argument into some kind of perspective that make sense.  I see beekeepers coming together in a beekeeping forum to talk about beekeeping.  Yet, they seem to deride the education for the very thing we're all here for, beekeeping.  Or, is the derision being placed on the higher end of the educational process? I'm not sure.

If you wish to be contemptuous of individual blowhards who like to promote themselves by diminishing others.  Then carry on, let me get out of the way.  Such people exist whether they've been certified OR have kept bees for decades.  Neither have a monopoly on ignorance!  If people don't want to display manners then education or experience isn't going to change that.  

Or, if you wish to argue about WHAT gets taught for certification.  By all means do so, but arguing THAT people get certified!?   What the Hell are you thinking?

I implore the greater majority of beekeepers ('greater' in this instance means both Quality & Quantity) to understand that Experience comes from Education and that Education comes from Experience.  They beget each other.

Do i need to explain the harm in separating these: experience from education?  Let me say that again; Do you need to have the harm that separating these would cause explained to you!

I say that because it seems to me that someone in these threads it deliberately trying to divide people.

Does anyone know of a profession were the members decry the institutions that educate the membership?  What if we were lawyers.  Would one of us say to a new guy,

"Passing the BAR exam doesn't make you a lawyer.  Winning a court case does".

Then another lawyer says,

"Yeah, we should scrap the BAR entirely".

Do you see how that doesn't make much sense?

Here in Virginia we have lost half of the beekeepers & bee population we had in the mid-eighties.  So in case you haven't realized this, we need MORE of us.  Getting More of us means there had better be some educational programs made available to the masses AND experienced beeks better start harboring apprentices.

That being done,...well congratulations, that's the idea!  

I do not see how making 'More' beeks is accomplished by US bickering like a bunch of 'Sneetches'!   It's demoralizing.
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BjornBee
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« Reply #47 on: June 12, 2011, 12:28:34 PM »


I say that because it seems to me that someone in these threads it deliberately trying to divide people.


Now go easy on them. I still don't think some understand the division that the master bee programs promote. Even though I have pointed out that distinction more than once.   grin  Glad you got it....  Wink

Labeling one person "Master" and the next not, based on the ability of one person to attend, pay, and pass a test which carries the weight of toilet paper, is about divisive as it gets.
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ziffabeek
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« Reply #48 on: June 12, 2011, 01:23:23 PM »

Thank you Hemlock.  That is the most intelligent post in this thread. 

love,
ziffa
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Finski
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« Reply #49 on: June 12, 2011, 02:19:14 PM »

.
Do we will have "top bar masters" and "small cell masters". They are cream of beek folks.
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BjornBee
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« Reply #50 on: June 12, 2011, 07:43:17 PM »

Send me $95.99 and I'll send a correspondence exam on-line. Then you too, can label yourself, promote yourself, and declare...yourself......."Master __________". Just fill in the blank space yourself.  Wink  For an extra 14.95 we will also include an official "looking" certificate embossed with your name on it. A Great addition to any wall, honeyhouse, or honey stand.
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BjornBee
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« Reply #51 on: June 12, 2011, 07:45:39 PM »

Thank you Hemlock.  That is the most intelligent post in this thread.  

love,
ziffa

Which part? Please do tell.

Was it the part whining about others dividing folks, while defending a program that divides folks?

Am I close?  grin
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joebrown
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« Reply #52 on: June 12, 2011, 08:52:09 PM »

This, like many beekeeping debates, could go on forever. Sometimes we must agree to disagree on certain topics!
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AllenF
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« Reply #53 on: June 12, 2011, 08:54:53 PM »

But fuel for the fire keeps the treads warm.
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joebrown
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« Reply #54 on: June 12, 2011, 08:57:29 PM »

But fuel for the fire keeps the treads warm.


Very True, I did not say the debating was not fun and entertaining. Nothing gets you thinking and racking your brain like a good ole debate.
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Scadsobees
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« Reply #55 on: June 13, 2011, 08:49:45 AM »

scads--woodstock-- would that bee lots of people out enjoying themselves.

I know all that Bud!  It sounded like a good ol' time and fun, and was jealous I couldn't make it, just thought I'd have fun with it!!  grin

Based on what Tillie has said her Master Certification process was, it was the exact opposite of what Bjorn has just described what his certification process is.
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Rick
bud1
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« Reply #56 on: June 13, 2011, 06:35:39 PM »

sorry scads, reading bejourns  toilet paper always kinda angry
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