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Author Topic: Hive split?  (Read 2408 times)
TAH
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« on: June 22, 2005, 08:35:58 AM »

I have a question about splitting a hive. first of all I don't really know what I'm doing but after reading various things I decided that my bees needed to be split. I have a feral colony that I got last year. They are in a hive with two deep and two shallows. The population of bees in the hive seems to be several times what it was last year and they had just about filled all of the brood frames. I bought another hive and moved 4 frames brood frames into the new hive. I set a couple of drawn supers on top. The brood frames had at least one queen cell (I think) This was about a week ago. Yesterday when I looked in the new hive theree seems to be about 5 times the number of bees that were with teh frames when I moved them in and there were a lot of larger bees that were 1 1/2 to 2 times the size of the rest. Does this sound like it will work? Do I need to get a queen?

Thanks
Tom
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TREBOR
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« Reply #1 on: June 22, 2005, 09:01:52 AM »

if you want them to rise there own queen, just keep an eye out for new brood(eggs, larve and such)but remember she still has to go out and mate b4 she can lay!
   I'm sure others will have something to ad,as I'm a newbee my self.
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Finsky
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« Reply #2 on: June 22, 2005, 09:40:55 AM »

Quote from: TAH
I have a question about splitting a hive. first of all I don't really know what I'm doing but after reading various things


If you split the hive, it is not capable to gather honey this summer.

If you need a new hive, it is best to do with 3 frames nuc.

If bees are making swarming cells, it is better to split in two.  And when swarming fever is over, it is better to unite parts thay hive collect honey.


If bee have one queen cell, it sounds like they want to change the queen. If they are going to swarm, they usually make 15-20 swarming cells.

Difficult to know without seeing the case.
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Chad S
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« Reply #3 on: June 22, 2005, 01:04:42 PM »

I have the situation where I have the 15-20 queen cells.  This is my strongest hive.  I planned on doing a cut down split anyway, but when I saw the capped queen cells I ordered two queens for this week end.  My plan is to take away one brood box in this case the lower one because it has more capped brood etc.  Take the brood box away put it on a bottom board with a cover etc. and let the feild bees fly home to the origional site.  Find the queen if she was in the lower box, and return her to the origional hive.  Supposidly this will be much easier when the field bees have all flown home.  That evening put five frames each with brood, nurse bees, and new queens into the brood box taken away pluss one.  Stack the existing honey supers back on the hive that was split for two weeks before putting another brood box back.  This is my understanding of how a cut down split is done.  It is also my understanding that you not only get new colonies from this, but you get increased honey production.  Any comments?

Chad
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Finsky
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« Reply #4 on: June 22, 2005, 01:35:01 PM »

Quote from: Chad S
IMy plan is to take away one brood box in this case the lower one because it has more capped brood etc.  Take the brood box away put it on a bottom board with a cover etc. and let the feild bees fly home to the origional site.  ........... Any comments?

Chad


1) You should fist find a queen.

2) Then move whole hive from site.

3) Put new hive with foundations in old site. Put queen inside.
Give to it one brood frame with larvas. Maybe you need 2 box foundations.

Old hive has it's queen cells and the new has the queen.

4) Let the new build foundations ready. It takes one week with syrup.  Then stop feeding.

*************

If you want honey, you should put parts together after new queens have emerged.

It is wise to renew queens because they are willing to swarm. Strongest hives swarm more than weak.

It idea to kill swarming fever. When it is over, it is idea to get them work for honey.

When you give them new queen, it doest not swarm this summer if you give it new space and take capped honey away.

You may make little nucs to start new hives, but not big ones because they you do not get honey from hive.
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Chad S
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« Reply #5 on: June 22, 2005, 01:53:42 PM »

Hey Finskey do you ever go to work? cheesy

I am going to get rid of all of the queen cells that's why I ordered the new queens for the nucs.  Don't have the time for them to get going, and don't want to take a chance on a dud.  The upper brood box right now most of the brood has emerged, and the queen has not laid in it again last I checked.  I figured if I took the nurse bees away from the queen it would help supress the swarm cells I am seeing.  It would be the same as using a Snellgrove board for swarm supression.  No?
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Finsky
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« Reply #6 on: June 22, 2005, 02:03:07 PM »

Quote from: Chad S
Hey Finskey do you ever go to work? cheesy

I am going to get rid of all of the queen cells .......?


The first thing is to stop they idea to swarm. That is why old bees has duty to draw upp foundations.

The odl hive is not able any more to swarm. Emerging queens destroy each other and one stays.

That is your basic.

Then you kill that virgin queen and put egg laying in.

I suggest that you join parts after  7-10 days. You kill the old queen and put just hives together.
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TAH
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« Reply #7 on: June 23, 2005, 07:35:54 PM »

What are the bigger bees in my frames that I seperated to the empty hive? They are almost twice as big as the others and I don't think they where there when I moved the frames.


Tom
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Jerrymac
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« Reply #8 on: June 23, 2005, 07:41:21 PM »

Those are probably drones. Pick a few up and stick them in your shirt.shocked  If they don't sting you they are drones   Cheesy

Drones are really plump looking and they only have two large compound eyes.
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rainbow sunflower  Light travels faster than sound. This is why some people appear bright until you hear them speak.   rainbow sunflower

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Apis629
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« Reply #9 on: June 23, 2005, 07:44:06 PM »

Given that there were more than one of those "bigger bees" I'd imagine that you are refering to drones.  Drones are larger than workers and their eyes seem to wrap around their heads.  Is that what you're talking about?
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TAH
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« Reply #10 on: June 23, 2005, 08:31:31 PM »

They probably are drones then.  Some of the cells in the brood frames seem to be half filled with what looked like honey. What is this?
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Jerrymac
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« Reply #11 on: June 23, 2005, 09:24:42 PM »

What usually happens is the bees place honey on the upper and ooutter edges of the brood nest. Then there will be a layer of pollen and then the brood nest in the center of all of that. The drone cells are usually at the bottom.
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rainbow sunflower  Light travels faster than sound. This is why some people appear bright until you hear them speak.   rainbow sunflower

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Apis629
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« Reply #12 on: June 23, 2005, 10:51:39 PM »

THe stuff that looks like honey could be ripening nectar.  If it's in the center of the brood frame then you may want to add a super.  If it's arround the corners and at the top that's fine.
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TAH
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« Reply #13 on: June 26, 2005, 06:51:14 PM »

I just checked the hive (see top post) and there didn't seem to be any of the drones around anymore. There where some workers going in and there are small larvae in cells. It has been two weeks since I moved these over. Does it sound like there is a queen now? Should I add some more brood frames?

Tom
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