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Author Topic: 1st time Inspector came today...discouraged  (Read 2978 times)
Terrex
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« on: May 04, 2011, 09:33:17 PM »

DH & I were told that the Inspector for our area was a very good guy...and he really was..but

We were all ready to get inspected and registered, DH made a SBB and top entrance.  Had the whole set-up out next to the bees to transfer into the new box. My bees are in a box that is not mine.  First thing the inspector said was..."it won't work.  Bees enter their hives from the bottom."  Then he said that we had too much room between the SBB and the brood box and that we need to take out the spacer.  DH added a spacer according to MB.

 Then he turned the BB on the other hive over...said that it needs to be wide open for air flow. Told us of all the treatments that we need to do for Spring, Summer, Fall, to "prevent"  having any sickness.  I just nodded my head in agreement.

Then we went to sign the paperwork.  The Beekeeper Compliance Agreement that I had to sign was the most discouraging. 

# 8 in the list is:
Recommend re-queening with European stock every six months unless using marked or clipped queens and having in possession a bill of sale from a EHB Queen Producer.

Maybe it is just me...I am tired.. but I AM  moving the bees to the top entrance hive.   I do not want to treat just because the calendar says to, and I am not re-queening every 6 months.  Just do not know how to get around having the bill of sale from a EHB Queen Producer.

I feel like I'm breaking the law...

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iddee
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« Reply #1 on: May 04, 2011, 09:58:46 PM »

You are right, he is wrong. Do as you are planning.

Your post says #8 "recommended". If that is the way it is written, then that's what it is. A recommendation, not a law.
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« Reply #2 on: May 04, 2011, 09:58:56 PM »

don't you just love it when your government "helps" you?  are you required to register hives and have inspections?  

you do what works for you.  he can do what works for him.  
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« Reply #3 on: May 04, 2011, 10:15:24 PM »

>We were all ready to get inspected and registered, DH made a SBB and top entrance.  Had the whole set-up out next to the bees to transfer into the new box. My bees are in a box that is not mine.  First thing the inspector said was..."it won't work.  Bees enter their hives from the bottom."

So now we know he knows nothing about bees.

>  Then he said that we had too much room between the SBB and the brood box and that we need to take out the spacer.  DH added a spacer according to MB.

3/4" is standard.

> Then he turned the BB on the other hive over...said that it needs to be wide open for air flow. Told us of all the treatments that we need to do for Spring, Summer, Fall, to "prevent"  having any sickness.

The party line.

>  I just nodded my head in agreement.

As you should.

>Then we went to sign the paperwork.  The Beekeeper Compliance Agreement that I had to sign was the most discouraging.
# 8 in the list is:
Recommend re-queening with European stock every six months unless using marked or clipped queens and having in possession a bill of sale from a EHB Queen Producer.

Every six months is ridiculous.  I know many beekeepers in Florida who are raising their own queens, and capturing ferals and keeping them.  They may be violating the law...

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Terrex
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« Reply #4 on: May 04, 2011, 10:16:06 PM »

   are you required to register hives and have inspections?  

 Florida Law...yes
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njoylife10
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« Reply #5 on: May 04, 2011, 11:49:33 PM »

Sounds like you handled it just right.  Don't let them get you down.

njoylife10
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JP
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« Reply #6 on: May 04, 2011, 11:57:48 PM »

Last year as part of the south eastern organic bee keeping conference's agenda was a planned night time inspection. This conference was held in West Palm Beach.

The state inspector said "I want you to omit the night time inspections as they promote thievery."

How about that folks?Huh??

We did it anyway.  grin

Bee keepers work hives, graft, transfer, etc... when they have opportunity, sometimes that opportunity is 3 in the morning.

Where do they find these so called qualified inspectors?Huh?


...JP
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« Reply #7 on: May 05, 2011, 12:15:14 AM »

The worst part is I'm now hearing that FL may be gearing up to all but abandon legitimate inspectors (several of whom I know personally and truly admire...others not so much) and groom "Master" beekeepers (through the UF program) to assume some of the duties. I personally feel that the bee inspection program is needed here in FL although I don't really agree with much of the political crap that goes with it. I have nothing against the "Master" beekeepers out there, but know several that I wouldn't trust inspecting my tire treads, let alone my bees!

Scott
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indypartridge
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« Reply #8 on: May 05, 2011, 07:02:40 AM »

We had Jerry Hayes as a guest at one of our Indiana State meetings awhile back. He talked about difficulty of having to balance good beekeeping practices with the public fear and media frenzy about "Killer Bees". As a government official, he has to answer the question "What's the state doing to protect citizens from Africanized bees?"  Many municpalities could easily pass "No beekeeping" ordinances as a knee-jerk reaction, but he also has to consider the value of pollination to state agriculture. The Best Management Practices (http://www.freshfromflorida.com/pi/plantinsp/apiary/apiary.html) are an effort to provide some political cover for those defending beekeeping.
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BjornBee
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« Reply #9 on: May 05, 2011, 07:20:46 AM »

We had Jerry Hayes as a guest at one of our Indiana State meetings awhile back. He talked about difficulty of having to balance good beekeeping practices with the public fear and media frenzy about "Killer Bees". As a government official, he has to answer the question "What's the state doing to protect citizens from Africanized bees?"  Many municpalities could easily pass "No beekeeping" ordinances as a knee-jerk reaction, but he also has to consider the value of pollination to state agriculture. The Best Management Practices (http://www.freshfromflorida.com/pi/plantinsp/apiary/apiary.html) are an effort to provide some political cover for those defending beekeeping.



Well said.  Wink
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hankdog1
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« Reply #10 on: May 05, 2011, 07:59:49 AM »

Love being in a state that doesn't require inspections and such.  Don't get me wrong Virginia has some dumb laws ex. radar detectors illegal.  For the most part though as far as beekeeping they do a pretty good job.  Went to a workshop where Dr. Rick Fell was speaking a professor of entimology out at Virginia Tech (VPI).  He even promoted not using any form of treatment for the bees including SBB.   shocked  He ticked off some old school guys.   grin

I wonder how they deal with African honey bees over in Africa?  They probably don't so killer bees is probably more science fiction then anything cause the best way to deal with them is through eduction about them not trying to kill them out.  We all know that sure as heck doesn't work.
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« Reply #11 on: May 05, 2011, 09:51:32 AM »

You know, I understand the requeening argument, but I know an old man who is approximately 95. He has kept bees his whole life and he has a hive at his house now. For the last 4 or 5 years he has not had to requeen. Replacing an old or bad queen is one thing, but replacing a good one just because is ridiculous! Just my opinion!
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BjornBee
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« Reply #12 on: May 05, 2011, 11:28:14 AM »

Who is suggesting requeening every 6 months?

I think you guys are missing the point and what the original comment intended. Do you get the reasoning, the additional comments about marking or clipping, and what the rationale is behind the recommendation?

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iddee
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« Reply #13 on: May 05, 2011, 11:43:33 AM »

""The Beekeeper Compliance Agreement that I had to sign was the most discouraging.

# 8 in the list is:
Recommend re-queening with European stock every six months unless using marked or clipped queens and having in possession a bill of sale from a EHB Queen Producer.""


It looks like the state of Fla. is recommending it. Maybe you missed that? The rational, in my opinion, is AHB hysteria.
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« Reply #14 on: May 05, 2011, 12:03:54 PM »

""The Beekeeper Compliance Agreement that I had to sign was the most discouraging.

# 8 in the list is:
Recommend re-queening with European stock every six months unless using marked or clipped queens and having in possession a bill of sale from a EHB Queen Producer.""


It looks like the state of Fla. is recommending it. Maybe you missed that? The rational, in my opinion, is AHB hysteria.

Read it again...... Wink

It only recommends requeening if you DO NOT mark or clip your queens.

Hysteria or not, what they are attempting to do, and what Indy had so nicely pointed out, is walk a fine line trying to show to the public, local township boards and state politicians, that when someone does get stung to death, it should be understood that the bee industry is being proactive, and trying to make sure "hysteria" is not something the local public, newspaper, and others take it too.

Far better to have a beekeeper best management proactive in place (even if voluntary) and be able to state truthfully that the state at least has some guidelines and recommendations in place. Better than having a stinging episode or death, and have it be known that the bee industry, state agriculture department, and other folks, seem not to be in control, and answer a question such as "What is the state and beekeepers doing so this does not happen again?" and the reply being "We don't do anything. We have no recommendations. We let each beekeeper do what they want, and if someone gets stung....take it up with the nearest beekeeper!"

I've never seen a bunch of people get so worked up about a "suggestion". And one based in commonsense, and tailored towards protecting the very industry they enjoy.

I'll be glad to have a "Best Beekeeper Practices" program in place here in Pennsylvania, to head off any new zoning or banning of bees when someone is confirmed to be killed by AHBs. And yes, there will be hysteria. Not from the bee industry. But the public.

 
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« Reply #15 on: May 05, 2011, 12:19:22 PM »

everything is done "for our own good".  it's no doubt a good thing to have recommendations for best practices.  i question the need for the state (government) ever being involved.  you know that all the recommendations or rules in the world won't keep people from going nuts and asking for legislation if a couple of people get killed by bees and a beekeeper is anywhere around. 

in the mean time, you have states spending money on recommendations and people to inspect, when state are broke and the advice may or may not be good.  states are going to have to make some choices about this kind of stuff.

recommendations are only legislation waiting to happen.
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.....The greatest changes occur in their country without their cooperation. They are not even aware of precisely what has taken place. They suspect it; they have heard of the event by chance. More than that, they are unconcerned with the fortunes of their village, the safety of their streets, the fate of their church and its vestry. They think that such things have nothing to do with them, that they belong to a powerful stranger called “the government.” They enjoy these goods as tenants, without a sense of ownership, and never give a thought to how they might be improved.....

 Alexis de Tocqueville
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« Reply #16 on: May 05, 2011, 12:44:17 PM »

everything is done "for our own good".  it's no doubt a good thing to have recommendations for best practices.  i question the need for the state (government) ever being involved.  you know that all the recommendations or rules in the world won't keep people from going nuts and asking for legislation if a couple of people get killed by bees and a beekeeper is anywhere around.  

in the mean time, you have states spending money on recommendations and people to inspect, when state are broke and the advice may or may not be good.  states are going to have to make some choices about this kind of stuff.

recommendations are only legislation waiting to happen.

While I agree on the effectiveness of "Inspectors", I also know that we as beekeepers also want bees to be allowed in every backyard in America. We cry that bees are safe. We state that all honey bee stinging episode deaths are attributed to AHB (true).

And yet, we balk at giving the public any assurances that we as a group, will be proactive, take commonsense approaches to ensure we have non-AHB colonies, and act in their best interest. Bees are not like other animals or agriculture commodities. A chicken never killed anyone that I am aware of.

Sorry.....I don't take the "Each should do what they want" approach to selling the public support of beekeeping in communities. The old "If I want to keep nasty bees in the middle of my neighborhood that is my right....and screw anyone else beyond my fence" attitude usually gets zoning with limitations and banning as soon as problems pop up.

This is not about the much used "It's for our own good" line that seemingly does get overplayed. This is about being supportive and understanding that the public may be far more effective in banning and pushing new zoning if not for the state agriculture department support, inspectors, and other aspects of assurances given to the public to at least try to limit impact in the future.

I've seen it a few times. A town wants to ban beekeeping. And who does the local beekeepers turn to right away. State agriculture department, state inspector, and university entomologists. So it's is kind of two-handed to on one hand say "Who needs these folks" and then also rely on them to garner support, stop restrictive zoning, and keep beekeeping a viable backyard practice for all to enjoy. And if you have bad inspectors...then write a letter and be behind making it better.

It's not about having them or not having them in this situation. That is another whole discussion. And if I had to vote to ban be inspectors in this state....I would vote yes. But while we do have the inspectors, it would at least be worthy to understand the purpose, and the intentions of such "Best Beekeeping Practices" being promoted.

I would venture to say, without such practices, and support of those deemed not worthy to have around any longer, there might just be a few less beekeepers out there. But I know.....it just as easy to think it will never happen to me in my little corner.

BTW.....if I was in the middle of AHB territory, I'd be suggesting in my classes that beekeeper also mark queens, clip wings, or requeen often. That is not bad advice.  Wink But it does require an understanding beyond the first 3.9 seconds that it takes the normal beekeeper to figure out that he will be out twenty bucks, then get all excited about this "suggestion".  grin
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forrestcav
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« Reply #17 on: May 05, 2011, 12:57:28 PM »

agreed on proactive against AHB and public perception. But this inspector seems to be a little lacking in his skills. What are the requirements to be an inspector? Maybe we as a community of beekeepers should look at that. Maybe campaign for minimum standards and continuing education for inspectors. That way they will be current. I'm sure he thought he was, but his IPM skills seems to lacking. IMO
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« Reply #18 on: May 05, 2011, 01:04:26 PM »

ok, but wouldn't it be equally effective to have an association of beekeepers in a state like FL who did inspections and recommendations?  the public would get the same assurances and the government would be involved.  

first, you get legislation passed that protects beekeepers who submit to inspections, from liability.  then you put together some beekeepers and do some inspection training and agree on best practices.  
i would volunteer to work in a program like that.  bet lots of people would.  i'd also agree to inspections because i wouldn't have some government stooge poking around on my property.

saves the state money.  saves the beekeeper money + the  kind of people who would work in something like this are more apt to be teachers rather than just doing a job.    

yes, beekeepers and others in ag go to the state for protection, but they are asking for protection FROM the state or local govt.  

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.....The greatest changes occur in their country without their cooperation. They are not even aware of precisely what has taken place. They suspect it; they have heard of the event by chance. More than that, they are unconcerned with the fortunes of their village, the safety of their streets, the fate of their church and its vestry. They think that such things have nothing to do with them, that they belong to a powerful stranger called “the government.” They enjoy these goods as tenants, without a sense of ownership, and never give a thought to how they might be improved.....

 Alexis de Tocqueville
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« Reply #19 on: May 05, 2011, 01:13:40 PM »

Hey Terrex, where are you in the panhandle? I used to live in P-Cola
I wish you had an inspector like ours, Iowa inspections are voluntary and the guy who does mine is very helpfull.

BTW the 10 most frightening words in the world are "I'm from the government and I'm here to help you"
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