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Author Topic: so now UBL is dead  (Read 4574 times)
kathyp
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« Reply #40 on: May 04, 2011, 07:48:35 PM »

jerrymac, i promise you that i did not crack my bible before deciding to celebrate the death of a murdering coward.  i don't claim gods blessing.  i don't seek the moral high ground.  i give in  to my base human nature and  piano

now it's done and we can move on to the next big thing.

i do think that it's a mistake not to release the pictures.  that's going to come back an bite us.  they will eventually get out and when they do, it will be without controls.  right now, obama could do it and control content.
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.....The greatest changes occur in their country without their cooperation. They are not even aware of precisely what has taken place. They suspect it; they have heard of the event by chance. More than that, they are unconcerned with the fortunes of their village, the safety of their streets, the fate of their church and its vestry. They think that such things have nothing to do with them, that they belong to a powerful stranger called “the government.” They enjoy these goods as tenants, without a sense of ownership, and never give a thought to how they might be improved.....

 Alexis de Tocqueville
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« Reply #41 on: May 04, 2011, 08:24:15 PM »

OK. Just wanted to know. So down with the American way. Down with what Christianity has taught us. Nice to know we put aside all our values and morals when it suits us.
In the old Bible there are many counts of God helping good people kill evil people. King David is a good example of God helping good over evil.
 And there wouldn't be an American Way if it were not for our ability to kill those who try to destroy the American Way. And I think God has been on our side in many battles because of our faith in Him.


Here's the problem. If we are going to claim God's help in getting us out of something, then perhaps we should also claim He put us there in the first place.
WHY huh
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Mshel
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« Reply #42 on: May 04, 2011, 09:04:18 PM »

Yeah I love how you just take the parts that suit you and over look the rest.

How about judge not lest ye be judged.

For give those who trespass against us

Vengeance is mine saith the Lord

Love your enemies
 
And here is a good one.   Proverbs 24:17 “Do not rejoice when your enemies fall, and do not let your heart be glad when they stumble.”

But then in this country people pride themselves on standing up for everyone's rights. One of them being "innocent until proven guilty"

And just so many more.......

But.... Now the news articles are saying it appeared he lunged for a weapon.  So I guess they were justified in shooting him. It's just the first thing in my mind was that they burst into a room and started shooting it up. Didn't matter if they had the right room or not. It has happened before, wrong person getting shot.

I was wondering how they were going to re-spin the story.

Then the throwing him out to sea? Really?

So the next time when they rush in and shoot the wrong person I guess we will just chalk it up to..... being on the front line  rolleyes


agreed.
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kathyp
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« Reply #43 on: May 04, 2011, 09:10:37 PM »

hey, if you want to feel bad about it, knock yourself out.  forgive me if i don't share your sorrow.
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.....The greatest changes occur in their country without their cooperation. They are not even aware of precisely what has taken place. They suspect it; they have heard of the event by chance. More than that, they are unconcerned with the fortunes of their village, the safety of their streets, the fate of their church and its vestry. They think that such things have nothing to do with them, that they belong to a powerful stranger called “the government.” They enjoy these goods as tenants, without a sense of ownership, and never give a thought to how they might be improved.....

 Alexis de Tocqueville
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« Reply #44 on: May 04, 2011, 10:06:13 PM »

Until you strap on an m-16, or sit behind an m-60 and wonder which second will be your last, you will never understand. You can continue working with UBL and his crew, trying to destroy America with your propaganda, but I sincerely hope you fail with your bleeding hearts tactics.
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« Reply #45 on: May 05, 2011, 08:32:36 AM »

I watched the Today show briefly this morning and the arm chair quarterbacking has already begun. "No weapons were found" blah blah blah. Someone sold some pics to Reuters and of course they will show all the blood stains and no weapons anywhere in the them. The Reuters ones are time stamped an hour after DevGroup had left-plenty of time to sterilize the place to show it sans ak74's,47's and RPG7's. People are already crying about 'unarmed this' and 'innocent' that. How quick people choose to forget the facts of what got us here in the first place. I have to agree with an earlier posting of feeling sorry for the trigger man on the teams. All his personal info will 'mistakenly' get disclosed to a wikileak board or he will get dragged before a military tribunal and charged.
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sterling
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« Reply #46 on: May 05, 2011, 01:06:35 PM »

Yeah I love how you just take the parts that suit you and over look the rest.

How about judge not lest ye be judged.

For give those who trespass against us

Vengeance is mine saith the Lord

Love your enemies
 
And here is a good one.   Proverbs 24:17 “Do not rejoice when your enemies fall, and do not let your heart be glad when they stumble.”

But then in this country people pride themselves on standing up for everyone's rights. One of them being "innocent until proven guilty"

And just so many more.......

But.... Now the news articles are saying it appeared he lunged for a weapon.  So I guess they were justified in shooting him. It's just the first thing in my mind was that they burst into a room and started shooting it up. Didn't matter if they had the right room or not. It has happened before, wrong person getting shot.

I was wondering how they were going to re-spin the story.

Then the throwing him out to sea? Really?

So the next time when they rush in and shoot the wrong person I guess we will just chalk it up to..... being on the front line  rolleyes


Love your enemies: You love you childern [assumming you have childern] but when they do wrong you punish them. At least you should. God loves the whole world [JN 3.16]but he also hates sin and will punish those who do it. [Sin=Kill people using airplains.
Vengence is mine said the Lord: God has used people throughtout time to accomplish this. He sent King Saul into a country to destroy all the evil people. BTW King Saul didn't kill them all so God punished Saul.
Judge not: Jesus is the one who said that and it has been taken out of context as much as any script.
               Jesus also said a tree can be judge by the fruit it bears. Is he contradicting himself?
How about this one? Turn the other check: Wonder what kind of country we would be living in had we done that when Pearl Harbor was bombed. Or when Hitler started his rampage.
God has given us this great Country and the religious freedoms we enjoy and He expects us to to protect it. He has also given us the tools to do that. IE helicoptors and Navy Seals.
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kathyp
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« Reply #47 on: May 05, 2011, 01:25:02 PM »

Quote
All his personal info will 'mistakenly' get disclosed to a wikileak board or he will get dragged before a military tribunal and charged.

maybe that's why the video blacked out.  his name will probably never be known unless he makes it known later in his memoirs.  if one is singled out now for blame, all will stand up and say "i did it".
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.....The greatest changes occur in their country without their cooperation. They are not even aware of precisely what has taken place. They suspect it; they have heard of the event by chance. More than that, they are unconcerned with the fortunes of their village, the safety of their streets, the fate of their church and its vestry. They think that such things have nothing to do with them, that they belong to a powerful stranger called “the government.” They enjoy these goods as tenants, without a sense of ownership, and never give a thought to how they might be improved.....

 Alexis de Tocqueville
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« Reply #48 on: May 05, 2011, 02:41:09 PM »

Ya know Jerry I thought some more about what you mean when you say we should have a problem with shooting unarmed people. I think I see your point if it had been a police force here in America. But do to the fact this was a warzone I have no problem all the men in the room shot were unarmed. I think that is the dilemma that America has a hard to with, the separation of soldiers and police officers. We think that a war should be fought like the local police force deals with crime here in America. Maybe it should we act as the police force to the world maybe we should who knows. But the trade off is a lot more soldiers are going to start showing up dead. Warfare is based on violence of action. Hit them so fast and so hard they have no time to react or react with utter disbelief. The SEAL teams are the most highly trained force out there Violence on the objective is what keeps a small team alive on the battlefield. I as a lowly infantry soldier had violence on the objective drilled into me from day 1. I was trained violence is what will get me home and it will, and has. I think the way the SEALS went about this put unnecessary risk on the team. I would have had my team stack on the wall and throw a grenade in the room then went in to kill what was left. If I had to make a bet the reason they didn’t is they wanted to collect intel from the room and grenades are bad on hard drives. But that’s speculating. So again, I think had the local city police force went into a drug dealers crack house kicked the door in and started shooting I would have a big problem with that and would agree with you when you raised your argument. But to apply that same logic to soldiers isn’t fair; to a soldier it goes against all his training. We need to stop applying the freedoms and liberties we in America consider normal to everyone else in the world we come across. We aren’t fighting crime we are waging war, there’s a big difference.

Keith
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kathyp
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« Reply #49 on: May 05, 2011, 06:23:40 PM »

Keith, i thought about it too.  a couple of things.  1. the seals used excellent fire discipline.  in a house full of women and children and other men, there are 3 deaths and one wounded.  2.  it is not logical to believe that this house full of UBL supporters/guards/followers, were not very well armed. 

they did their job.  they took out a target that was wanted dead or alive. 

i looked at the published pics.  one of those seems to show a wound that most likely came from someone shooting from a crouched position.  that would probably be an entry position with the seals going in high and low.  that kind of shooting happens when you enter a room and a threat is perceived.  that is, someone makes a move toward a weapon or does not follow commands to freeze.  this picture alone tells me that they met resistance. 

have you looked at the pics and do you know the one i mean?  what do you think?
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.....The greatest changes occur in their country without their cooperation. They are not even aware of precisely what has taken place. They suspect it; they have heard of the event by chance. More than that, they are unconcerned with the fortunes of their village, the safety of their streets, the fate of their church and its vestry. They think that such things have nothing to do with them, that they belong to a powerful stranger called “the government.” They enjoy these goods as tenants, without a sense of ownership, and never give a thought to how they might be improved.....

 Alexis de Tocqueville
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« Reply #50 on: May 06, 2011, 08:56:11 AM »

Did you read the article where only one person was shooting and all the rest were unarmed?
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« Reply #51 on: May 06, 2011, 09:53:19 AM »

i have read a number of articles.  no one was shooting.  one person was shooting.  no guns were found....

i suspect that we don't have much of the real story now and it may be years, if ever, before it comes out.  thats the way these things go.  in fact, i am surprised that the WH has given out as much info as they have...

now....does it seem logical to you that the most wanted man on earth, surrounded by his most trusted people and family, was unguarded?  or guarded by unarmed men? 

i'm not sure it matters.  if they'd taken him out with a sniper, he wouldn't have had the chance to fight back.  it's not a flipping sports event, after all.
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.....The greatest changes occur in their country without their cooperation. They are not even aware of precisely what has taken place. They suspect it; they have heard of the event by chance. More than that, they are unconcerned with the fortunes of their village, the safety of their streets, the fate of their church and its vestry. They think that such things have nothing to do with them, that they belong to a powerful stranger called “the government.” They enjoy these goods as tenants, without a sense of ownership, and never give a thought to how they might be improved.....

 Alexis de Tocqueville
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« Reply #52 on: May 06, 2011, 02:39:38 PM »

OK Jerrymac; let's look at it another way. Say you are a soldier in a war zone and your platoon comes up on an enemy platoon and only one of them fires at you. Are you going to leave the rest of them alone? You've made some pretty dumb statements on this thread; have you ever been in a combat situation?
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Jerrymac
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« Reply #53 on: May 06, 2011, 06:49:53 PM »

OK Jerrymac; let's look at it another way. Say you are a soldier in a war zone and your platoon comes up on an enemy platoon and only one of them fires at you. Are you going to leave the rest of them alone? You've made some pretty dumb statements on this thread; have you ever been in a combat situation?

I was trained to Annalise a situation with a single quick glace, and I know these guys were trained a lot more than I was. That is all I can say.
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kathyp
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« Reply #54 on: May 06, 2011, 07:18:16 PM »

yes, jerrymac.  that's why the women and children are still alive.
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.....The greatest changes occur in their country without their cooperation. They are not even aware of precisely what has taken place. They suspect it; they have heard of the event by chance. More than that, they are unconcerned with the fortunes of their village, the safety of their streets, the fate of their church and its vestry. They think that such things have nothing to do with them, that they belong to a powerful stranger called “the government.” They enjoy these goods as tenants, without a sense of ownership, and never give a thought to how they might be improved.....

 Alexis de Tocqueville
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« Reply #55 on: May 07, 2011, 08:05:55 PM »

Quote
How about judge not lest ye be judged.

For give those who trespass against us

Vengeance is mine saith the Lord

Love your enemies

Those are only have the story, elsewhere in the Bible you can find the rest of the story:

Judge not lest you be judged----The rath of God comes with a vengence and in many forms (some of those forms are other people, governments or religious sects).

Foregive those who tresspass against us----once thier punishment as been paid.

Vengence is mine saith the Lord----David and Goliath is a good example.

Love your enemies----once they've been conquered.

Turn the other cheek---an if they smite that one deck him.

The meak shall inherit the earth-----People who let others walk on them have nothing to show buy foot prints.
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« Reply #56 on: May 09, 2011, 07:59:27 PM »

I was trained to Annalise a situation with a single quick glace, and I know these guys were trained a lot more than I was. That is all I can say.

I heard a former team 6 guy on the radio taking about that; He had  said that guessing by the fact that the story changed from had a weapon/lunging for a weapon/ to "shot while not armed" - and you are correct - they're also taught to subdue an unarmed person very quickly (although "police brutality" may look like slap & tickle by comparison)
The deduction he arrived at was that Bin Leaded had bodyguards who were instructed to shoot him if it looked even a little like "The Americans" were getting close enough to capture or kill him, so the (unpublished) pictures possibly would have shown powder burns from a point-blank kill and not something from across the room. So it's a possibility that he was not armed, still warm, and very gone when they breached.
I hate to believe that not publishing the pics was a good idea, but I have to think that an "official government press release" with something that morbid would be a little gruesome. It's the right decision, although it was kind of goofy calling it "spiking the football" and giving a celebratory insinuation.
As morbid as it may seem, I think there are some people waiting to see it so they can get closure, I'm not worried, I'm sure they'll be leaked eventually, unofficially,  after the powder burns are airbrushed out.
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