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Author Topic: Birthers: so wrong, so long  (Read 2818 times)
Cascadebee
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« on: April 27, 2011, 11:02:55 AM »

You got played :'(

http://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/obama-produces-his-birth-certificate/2011/04/27/AFFISyxE_story.html
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kathyp
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« Reply #1 on: April 27, 2011, 11:16:53 AM »

i am glad he has released it.  it is a separate question that will always follow:  why did it take so long?  that question goes to the nature of the man. 

i'm not sure one should celebrate the American people "being played" by the man they have hired as president. 
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.....The greatest changes occur in their country without their cooperation. They are not even aware of precisely what has taken place. They suspect it; they have heard of the event by chance. More than that, they are unconcerned with the fortunes of their village, the safety of their streets, the fate of their church and its vestry. They think that such things have nothing to do with them, that they belong to a powerful stranger called “the government.” They enjoy these goods as tenants, without a sense of ownership, and never give a thought to how they might be improved.....

 Alexis de Tocqueville
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« Reply #2 on: April 27, 2011, 11:35:31 AM »

http://www.whitehouse.gov/sites/default/files/rss_viewer/birth-certificate-long-form.pdf

I was looking at the news and came here to start a thread and saw this one was already up so I'll ask
What is "RACE" should Mother be "Kansacan" grin if father is African huh
hope not to derail
I worked with a born and raised African he had Blond Hair, blue eyes,white/lightly tanned skin
When I asked him,He told me he was white African
he spoke like he was from England or Britain


Next Trump Question:  did he go to school on a Grant.. ... Gov.Aide or other

JMHO

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« Last Edit: April 27, 2011, 01:16:54 PM by Tommyt » Logged

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kathyp
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« Reply #3 on: April 27, 2011, 11:41:58 AM »

there are plenty of white Africans.  many are of Dutch or British heritage.  the only African-American i know came here from south Africa and was white. 

in this country, many with even small amounts of negroid background call themselves black, especially if they are of darker skin color.  that was not always the case.  it used to be more an advantage to be able to pass as white.  now the advantage is to black. 

and before someone has an uninformed fit about the word "negroid" look it up.
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.....The greatest changes occur in their country without their cooperation. They are not even aware of precisely what has taken place. They suspect it; they have heard of the event by chance. More than that, they are unconcerned with the fortunes of their village, the safety of their streets, the fate of their church and its vestry. They think that such things have nothing to do with them, that they belong to a powerful stranger called “the government.” They enjoy these goods as tenants, without a sense of ownership, and never give a thought to how they might be improved.....

 Alexis de Tocqueville
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« Reply #4 on: April 27, 2011, 12:23:19 PM »

Kathy, I think you know why it took him so long to release this....you can't forge a document like that overnight...you have to clean up the paper trail as well.

Scott
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"In the first place, we should insist that if the immigrant who comes here in good faith becomes an American and assimilates himself to us, he shall be treated on an exact equality with everyone else, for it is an outrage to discriminate against any such man because of creed, or birthplace, or origin. But this is predicated upon the person's becoming in every facet an American, and nothing but an American...There can be no divided allegiance here. Any man who says he is an American, but something else also, isn't an American at all. We have room for but one flag, the American flag...We have room for but one language here, and that is the English language...And we have room for but one sole loyalty and that is a loyalty to the American people."

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« Reply #5 on: April 27, 2011, 12:51:24 PM »

I'm pretty sure I could .Pdf one of those in three years myself, maybe even use a couple different real pens and people to make the signatures for "authenticity".
I'm not a birther, but the whole "at long last, the truth is out" bit just doesn't wash with me. - maybe I am a birther after all the dodging and lying.
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« Reply #6 on: April 27, 2011, 12:57:37 PM »

maybe   grin

i think there is a simple explanation.  he's arrogant.  the rules don't apply to him.

you can see this in a lot of the things he's done as president, but there is one thing that is a big tell.   he's consistently late. 
there are 3 reasons that people are consistently late.

1. they are scatter brained.  they don't manage time well and they  never can get out the door on time.  2. passive aggressive behavior.  the wife or husband who always make the other wait that extra few minutes when they have known for a week what time they had to leave...  3.  arrogance/narcissism.  "let them wait".  "i am important, they will sit there until i get ready to go out and talk to them".  "my time is worth more than their time.".

obama is # 3.

the only reason he released this is that his poll numbers are going down and they have taken a big drop since Trump started harping on this. 
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.....The greatest changes occur in their country without their cooperation. They are not even aware of precisely what has taken place. They suspect it; they have heard of the event by chance. More than that, they are unconcerned with the fortunes of their village, the safety of their streets, the fate of their church and its vestry. They think that such things have nothing to do with them, that they belong to a powerful stranger called “the government.” They enjoy these goods as tenants, without a sense of ownership, and never give a thought to how they might be improved.....

 Alexis de Tocqueville
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« Reply #7 on: April 27, 2011, 12:59:10 PM »

But I thought that it had been lost?

Maybe they found it in the same spot they found their copy of the short certificate? rolleyes

I'm with you, Bee Happy, on not being a birther except for the dodging and lying.

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Rick
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« Reply #8 on: April 27, 2011, 01:01:31 PM »

You mean arrogant like this?

Why bother clearing it up since he's still in charge?
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Rick
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« Reply #9 on: April 27, 2011, 01:11:34 PM »

Did he not say he was the man of Change
he just changed a few more things rolleyes
 I would like to see how many more Birth cert's from Hawaii
to see if they say African or Black or ??
Isn't race ?? black,white,Indian,other
not afro :

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kathyp
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« Reply #10 on: April 27, 2011, 02:42:07 PM »

Quote
I would like to see how many more Birth cert's from Hawaii
to see if they say African or Black or ??

not then.  i would not have been surprised to see race as negro.  black as a race is a pretty recent thing.  it came right before "African-American".  black is not a race.  it is a color.  same with white.  would you identify a Mexican as brown??

Quote
You mean arrogant like this?

like that  grin
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.....The greatest changes occur in their country without their cooperation. They are not even aware of precisely what has taken place. They suspect it; they have heard of the event by chance. More than that, they are unconcerned with the fortunes of their village, the safety of their streets, the fate of their church and its vestry. They think that such things have nothing to do with them, that they belong to a powerful stranger called “the government.” They enjoy these goods as tenants, without a sense of ownership, and never give a thought to how they might be improved.....

 Alexis de Tocqueville
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« Reply #11 on: April 28, 2011, 12:34:25 AM »

I still don't get it.  His mother was a U.S. Citizen.  No one has contested that.  I doesn't matter if he was born on Mars, he is a "natural born U.S. Citizen" because his mother is a U.S. Citizen.  He is NOT a naturalized citizen (the only other kind of U.S. Citizen).

His birth certificate is irrelevant.

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Bee Happy
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« Reply #12 on: April 28, 2011, 04:16:31 AM »

I still don't get it.  His mother was a U.S. Citizen.  No one has contested that.  I doesn't matter if he was born on Mars, he is a "natural born U.S. Citizen" because his mother is a U.S. Citizen.  He is NOT a naturalized citizen (the only other kind of U.S. Citizen).

His birth certificate is irrelevant.

I think it's really the wrong battle if the goal is impeachment and removal. Because to extrapolate the birther argument further - there are residency requirements even for the mother (there is a timeline requirement, I read up on it, but the specifics are foggy now, such as "yes, the child is a citizen if the mother is a US citizen at least X years of age, having resided in the us for at least X years, and having resided in the US for X period of time, and to have been residing in the US within X years prior to the birth of the child.") Meaning that yes, the argument could continue, provided it's proven that the certificate is forged, then begins the "where and how long" issues - he could serve another full term and not have anything come to light for another 20 - and still not have any crystal clarity.

 there's other charges that make for much better cases, like wilful dereliction of duty (immigration enforcement - he and Holder were quoted to have said that "there is no specific mandate [that they enforce immigration]" - being the chief law enforcement officer of the land IS the mandate that "you" have a duty and obligation to enforce all the laws of the land with equal vigor.), or violation of the war powers act of 1973 (he still doesn't have expressed congressional consent, nor is the libyan uprising an 'imminent threat' to the US).

« Last Edit: April 28, 2011, 04:32:03 AM by Bee Happy » Logged

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« Reply #13 on: April 28, 2011, 07:36:25 AM »

Quote
I still don't get it.  His mother was a U.S. Citizen.  No one has contested that.  I doesn't matter if he was born on Mars, he is a "natural born U.S. Citizen" because his mother is a U.S. Citizen.  He is NOT a naturalized citizen (the only other kind of U.S. Citizen).

that's not accurate on a couple of points, but since it seems to be settled, i won't go back over old stuff.  it's probably already posted here somewhere.
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.....The greatest changes occur in their country without their cooperation. They are not even aware of precisely what has taken place. They suspect it; they have heard of the event by chance. More than that, they are unconcerned with the fortunes of their village, the safety of their streets, the fate of their church and its vestry. They think that such things have nothing to do with them, that they belong to a powerful stranger called “the government.” They enjoy these goods as tenants, without a sense of ownership, and never give a thought to how they might be improved.....

 Alexis de Tocqueville
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« Reply #14 on: April 28, 2011, 07:38:55 AM »

Quote
I think it's really the wrong battle if the goal is impeachment and removal

wouldn't bother.  couldn't be done anyway with the numbers in congress.  more important to get out and vote next time around and make sure that both he and his progressive liege are gone from Washington.
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.....The greatest changes occur in their country without their cooperation. They are not even aware of precisely what has taken place. They suspect it; they have heard of the event by chance. More than that, they are unconcerned with the fortunes of their village, the safety of their streets, the fate of their church and its vestry. They think that such things have nothing to do with them, that they belong to a powerful stranger called “the government.” They enjoy these goods as tenants, without a sense of ownership, and never give a thought to how they might be improved.....

 Alexis de Tocqueville
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« Reply #15 on: April 28, 2011, 07:51:18 AM »

The birther crap has nothing to do with truth.     Birther propaganda is pure racism.  He doesn't look like a President does he?  Certainly not like all the other Presidents.  Something about his skin tone.  huh  He MUST be from somewhere else.

 I know a lot about racism because I grew up in Alabama and was a fervent racist until I was 18 years old.  It is a gut revulsion against "the other", someone who is different.  Racism is a form of tribalism, primitive and unthinking.  So there is no point in looking for the logic behind it.  There has never been a shred of evidence that Obama was anything other than what he claimed to be.

As for the claim that Obama is arrogant because he is late, I find that laughable.  I have never known a President to be on time.   If you want to disagree with him on policy, go to it.  But these personal attacks are not flattering to those making them. 
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« Reply #16 on: April 28, 2011, 08:40:39 AM »

Obama played it out as long as he could, playing his hand to his advantage. Only when the polls showed a negative impact, and the question of "why does he not come out and release it?", did he then do it.

Obama is not a leader of all people in this country. He is a divider....not one who unites. Why would he not willingly and openly settle such a question, to the people he is supposed to serve, and stop such inner bickering? Because he views half of the people in this country as his enemy. He has openly stated so.

I may be a person labled by Obama as "A person who clings to his guns and religion" since he labled all from Pennsylvania just that. But I am not a racist. I do think Obama needs to be removed because of his policies, his attitude, his willingness to divide this country, and about anything else that could be mentioned. He is a complete failure in my mind.

But like the blind sheep many are....it comes down to sideshows and other details keeping the masses occupied while their country goes down the tubes. I have not seen such hype overshadow real problems in this country, since the days the media spent foaming at the mouth over his basketball bracket selections.

And to think this was the hope and dream of so many.

So how is that working for ya?   rolleyes
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kathyp
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« Reply #17 on: April 28, 2011, 08:48:14 AM »

Quote
The birther crap has nothing to do with truth.     Birther propaganda is pure racism.  He doesn't look like a President does he?  Certainly not like all the other Presidents.  Something about his skin tone.    He MUST be from somewhere else.

this is the rally call of the left because it's an easy explanation for people who do  not think.
  since there were articles and testimonials all the way back to his senatorial race testifying to his birth in Kenya, the question was legitimate.  
imagine a republican candidate/president.  do you think the gentle people of the left would have ignored the issue?  

Quote
I know a lot about racism because I grew up in Alabama and was a fervent racist until I was 18 years old.  It is a gut revulsion against "the other", someone who is different.  Racism is a form of tribalism, primitive and unthinking.  So there is no point in looking for the logic behind it.  There has never been a shred of evidence that Obama was anything other than what he claimed to be.


you know about yourself and where you grew up.  do not presume to know what is in my heart.  what you know about you and Alabama has nothing to do with what motivates me.

Quote
As for the claim that Obama is arrogant because he is late, I find that laughable.  I have never known a President to be on time.   If you want to disagree with him on policy, go to it.  But these personal attacks are not flattering to those making them.  


as a matter of fact, George bush was known of being exactly on time.....just as an example.....

why do you think he can't show up for anything on time?

this racism crap makes me angry.  i wouldn't have voted for, or been happy with, Hillary either. so, what does that make me? a sexist?  when bill was prez and had so many legal issues, i wanted the info out there.  heck, i wanted the Nixon info out there.  
  
your cry of racism is a cop out because you supported a Marxist idiot who is either entirely incompetent or intentional taking this country into the toilet.  you are smart enough to know it even if you are not man enough to admit it.
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.....The greatest changes occur in their country without their cooperation. They are not even aware of precisely what has taken place. They suspect it; they have heard of the event by chance. More than that, they are unconcerned with the fortunes of their village, the safety of their streets, the fate of their church and its vestry. They think that such things have nothing to do with them, that they belong to a powerful stranger called “the government.” They enjoy these goods as tenants, without a sense of ownership, and never give a thought to how they might be improved.....

 Alexis de Tocqueville
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« Reply #18 on: April 28, 2011, 09:27:22 AM »

 pop
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"In the first place, we should insist that if the immigrant who comes here in good faith becomes an American and assimilates himself to us, he shall be treated on an exact equality with everyone else, for it is an outrage to discriminate against any such man because of creed, or birthplace, or origin. But this is predicated upon the person's becoming in every facet an American, and nothing but an American...There can be no divided allegiance here. Any man who says he is an American, but something else also, isn't an American at all. We have room for but one flag, the American flag...We have room for but one language here, and that is the English language...And we have room for but one sole loyalty and that is a loyalty to the American people."

Theodore Roosevelt 1907
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« Reply #19 on: April 28, 2011, 09:30:35 AM »


  since there were articles and testimonials all the way back to his senatorial race testifying to his birth in Kenya, the question was legitimate.  
imagine a republican candidate/president.  do you think the gentle people of the left would have ignored the issue?  
No it was not a legitimate issue because there was never any credible evidence whatsoever.  

Quote
you know about yourself and where you grew up.  do not presume to know what is in my heart.  what you know about you and Alabama has nothing to do with what motivates me.

If you were only challenging Obama's policies, I would not say that was racist.  Of course it is not racist to disagree with a President.  But the birther crap has no logic behind it.  It is all about "otherness".  And yes I lived with racism for much of my life.  I know how insidious it is.  I watched my own family deny they were racist while they practiced extreme racism.  I know it when I smell it.  Doesn't mean you don't have much good in you, but this is not good.

Quote
this racism crap makes me angry.  i wouldn't have voted for, or been happy with, Hillary either. so, what does that make me? a sexist?  
It's not how you voted that makes racism.... or sexism.   John McCain was not born in the US and as far as I can tell, he was not eligible to be President.  But he looks like other Presidents so the birthers gave him a pass.  That is racism.
 
Quote
 
your cry of racism is a cop out because you supported a Marxist idiot who is either entirely incompetent or intentional taking this country into the toilet.  you are smart enough to know it even if you are not man enough to admit it.
Again, I don't say that anyone who disagrees with me or with Obama is racist.  But I have learned that when racism is clear it must be confronted, no matter how uncomfortable it make me ... or anyone else.
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