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Author Topic: Upper entrance question  (Read 2577 times)
rgy
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« on: April 17, 2011, 02:27:19 PM »

If you create an upper entrance by notching the inner cover then do you have to elevate the outer cover?  Or do you just slide the outer cover all the way forward?
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gaucho10
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« Reply #1 on: April 17, 2011, 02:47:20 PM »

You slide the cover forward...I think that is why it is called a "telescopic" outer cover.
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T Beek
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« Reply #2 on: April 17, 2011, 04:48:47 PM »

And/or you can put another 'empty' box on top (over inner cover) to be used as a feeder and/or winter insulator.

thomas
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jusme
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« Reply #3 on: April 17, 2011, 04:58:00 PM »

I'm in between Hastings and Nashville Michigan,  and I totally agree with Thomas.  I use an empty super on top of the inner cover too.  You don't have to disturb the bees when you feed in this NASTY weather we've been having.  The extra entrance and ventilation really helps with the moisture problems.
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Finski
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« Reply #4 on: April 17, 2011, 10:36:15 PM »

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Make a upper entrance wall into the front wall.
It is bad idea to conduct moist hive air inside rain cover.
No idea too to put extra box to capture condensation mpisture into loft.
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T Beek
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« Reply #5 on: April 18, 2011, 05:41:26 AM »

Finski; I know you're trying to say something important but it was lost in translation Smiley  Can you tell it different or send a picture for us 'nolittles' to check out?  What do you mean by "Make a upper entrance wall into the front wall?
The boxes I use on top of inner covers also have 2 one inch screened holes in them. 

Thanks Finski (thought you might want to know that winter is holding on tight for us in North Wisconsin, 21F this AM, but I had bees flying yesterday with 41F and very windy, tough little girls)).

thomas
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Brian D. Bray
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« Reply #6 on: April 18, 2011, 11:09:15 PM »

Finski is saying to drill a hole in the front face of the box, that creating an attic space (extra box) above the inner top will just become a place for condensation to take place and even run back down into the hive.
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Finski
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« Reply #7 on: April 18, 2011, 11:57:04 PM »

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Brian said excatly what I tried to write. I toggle in mobile and as tired it does not allways succeed.

When you have upper entrance, it it important that in bad or cold weather bees need not to search the entrange. Bees have an exact habit to go in the hive via same site.

Upper entrance system must be flexiple. When you change the box, the entrance must be found quickly, otherwise bees will die in cold weather.

Super entrances are not needed, but bees like to fly  from brood bow level. 

upper entrance is simple. It is not science.

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Finski
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« Reply #8 on: April 19, 2011, 12:03:57 AM »

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Our hard winter is gone. Willows start blooming inside a week. Permanent snow rained so early that there was no soil frost.
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T Beek
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« Reply #9 on: April 19, 2011, 06:41:35 AM »

Finski; You had NO soil frost?  Here the ground is still frozen a few inches below surface.  We're supposed to get a snow storm today/tonite.  Maples and willows are still blooming but I think the dandelions are going to be late with this extended cold.

If there are screens covering the 1 inch holes on 'vent/feed' box over inner cover as I described above then I must disagree w/ Finski.  My bees have no condensation issues (due to the holes letting same out) and neither do any other beeks I know who use such a 'vent/feed box' system.

Is this an assertion based on some experience, because I learned it from a Canadian beek with over 50 years keeping bees, who still does this huh huh huh  Just asking.

thomas
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gaucho10
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« Reply #10 on: April 19, 2011, 08:06:26 AM »

Not to start an argument here, just making a statement...but I have not had any moisture in any of my hives since 2008.  That is when I went into using screened bottom boards and my new design of a ventilated inner cover (VIC).  I have posted this previously on this website and everyone can search here or go to my website @ www.beesbatsandbeyond.com.

I believe that as long as you have a bottom entrance along with an upper vent hole above the brood nest then you will have good moisture extraction.  I actually have a 3" vent hole in the center of my inner cover.  Moisture travels from the brood box INTO the inner cover and THEN exits through a normal upper entrance/exit hole (3/8" x 2").
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My favorite comedy program used to be Glenn Beck--The only thing is that after I heard the same joke over and over again it became BOOOORING.....

People who have inspired me throughout my life---Pee-wee Herman, Adolph Hitler, George W. Bush, Glenn Beck.
Notice I did not say they were people who I admire !!!
jusme
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« Reply #11 on: April 19, 2011, 08:22:17 AM »

I should have been more specific in my other post.  I use the extra super ontop of my inner cover, but I also use a piece of homosote on the inner cover with a hole cut in it that matches the inner cover hole.  I then use a 2" piece of pink foam fit snuggly enough to stay in the top of the empty box.  This leaves me a few inches of space between the homosote and pink foam to add dry sugar.  I can take the top off my hive tip the upper box up and feed the bees without chilling the brood.  It snowed here yesterday, and my bees are not only dry, but they're booming!  No more moisture.  And I didn't treat them with any medications. 

I might add, that the first year I tried to overwinter 4 strong healthy hives I wrapped them in tar paper with no upper ventilation, no insulation and I killed them all with moisture..... Maybe it's wrong to finski,  but it worked very well for me in Michigan.

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T Beek
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« Reply #12 on: April 19, 2011, 09:15:50 AM »

jusme & gaucho10;  sounds like we're using very similar methods w/ success cool

thomas
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jusme
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« Reply #13 on: April 19, 2011, 09:31:02 AM »

Yeh Thomas!  I learned a lot from listening to "Trot". 

I should have specified that the notch in the inner cover had to face down, and be on the same side of the hive as the lower entrance. 

I was amazed that the sugar I dumped on top of the homosote wasn't as hard as a brick after winter.  I did have a little crust on it,  but not a big hard lump.

I should say I did lose 1 out of my 8 hives this winter.  Though it was set up the same as my other hives,  it did have moisture issues.  It's the only hive that had Plastic foundation in it.  Not my choice, but my nucs came with it last year, and I'd replaced it with wax in all my hives but the one I lost.   Anybody else have problems with the plastic creating moisture problems??  I'm not saying that's what caused it..... just asking if that's a possibility???
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gaucho10
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« Reply #14 on: April 19, 2011, 10:48:35 AM »

JFYI...back in 1979 when I got my first beehive I asked a well seasoned beekeeper "why the inner cover had a hole on one side".  He told me that the hole is to be used as a front upper entrance or vent hole.

Also, you can flip the inner cover with the entrance hole to be on top.  If you cover the center oval hole with a piece of #8 wire mesh NOW the bees from the hive below can't use the top hole as an entrance.  If you close off the center oval hole (Porter bee escape hole) you can then add another box of bees on top for merging.

The oval center hole was designed by Mr. Porter back the 1800's.  See link and pic.  I personally have not used the Porter bee escape since the early 1980's.


www.paynesbeefarm.co.uk/clearing-supers/porter-bee-escape/
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My favorite comedy program used to be Glenn Beck--The only thing is that after I heard the same joke over and over again it became BOOOORING.....

People who have inspired me throughout my life---Pee-wee Herman, Adolph Hitler, George W. Bush, Glenn Beck.
Notice I did not say they were people who I admire !!!
Finski
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« Reply #15 on: April 19, 2011, 11:44:24 AM »

.
I have wintered bees 48 years.  I keep small main entrance and 1,5 cm upper entrance. Plus solid floor and plastic boxes. It  works however.

Inside snow bees suffer more from moisture than during winters when snow cover is low.

Today first willows bursted to yellow p***y.

Some hives have 7-12 frames brood. Some have 2 frames.

I have installed now 15 W heating to all hives. The queen will descend to the first box due to bottom heating.
« Last Edit: April 19, 2011, 11:55:05 AM by Finski » Logged

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T Beek
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« Reply #16 on: April 19, 2011, 03:24:40 PM »

jusme;  Trot is the man cool  I've learned many things from many beeks but the man has a way of articulating the world that is truly refreshing.  He taught me some things I didn't know I knew, (know what I mean?) and some things that made too much sense to be figured out by this knucklehead anyway?  There are many beeks around, especially in Canada, who practice his methods or some variation.  Trot also uses a 'larger' telescopic cover with holes drilled in 'it' (in the back) instead of a separate box, I believe (this is the place to correct me Trot, if your listening).  He's been more helpful than he knows as far as I'm concerned.

I've lost 4 of 5 over the winter, including a strong two year old colony I had in a LONG Hive (I must get them some fresh air and a way to properly insulate above some how).  All had slightly different set ups.  however, my only survivor was the super colony I've been keeping for 6 seasons now.  And, it was also the only one with a separate vent/feeder box between inner and outer cover that was insulated.  It also had mostly loose, yet a bit soggy sugar still uneaten as of a week ago.  

In observing recent behavior so far my bees are primarily using their bottom entrance (open at smallest hole) for removing dead and trash (chunks of sugar) and the top for bring in pollen, with the top being the busiest, by far.

thomas
« Last Edit: April 20, 2011, 06:29:34 AM by T Beek » Logged

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jusme
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« Reply #17 on: April 19, 2011, 05:00:39 PM »

Yeh Thomas ya gotta love "Trot".  My bees wouldn't have made it through this harsh winter without his advise.   I'll have to do a search and check out his cover.  It's sounds interesting.  

My bees have been using the upper and lower entrances.  Both are 2"  If it gets above 46" , dry and not to windy, the feral bees I hived last year are out working.  They're a little smaller and darker in color, but very tough and busy!  

I've never posted photos, so I don't know if it will work,  but these are the lovely girls that came to me last summer!!  




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« Last Edit: April 19, 2011, 06:16:10 PM by buzzbee » Logged
T Beek
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« Reply #18 on: April 20, 2011, 06:35:27 AM »

Wow, nice double swarm.  Were there two queens?

Trot's telescopic cover (I believe he makes them) has longer sides and a slightly larger base with holes on the backside drilled at an angle to shed any water.  Very cool and I plan on building some based on his design this summer, if it ever arrives Smiley

thomas
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jusme
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« Reply #19 on: April 20, 2011, 07:11:40 AM »

Thanks Thomas,  I'm not sure if there were two queens, but there were so many lbs of bees I hived them in two seperate double deeps and they both did great.  Two days before that a single swarm just as large landed in that same tree.  A week later the fourth one arrived.  I'm fortunate my husband's a builder and could build the hives quick enough. 

The big old mother catalpa tree in my front yard has hived bees for 20+ years that I know of.  I was so lucky to have watched, and felt and heard the roar of one of the huge swarms come from the mother catalpa in the front yard to it's  baby catalpa in the back yard.  Much cooler than you'll ever know,  as my husband planted the young tree out back for my 21 year old son Garrett when we lost him in a car accident 5 years ago. ....It's now known as "Garretts Tree of Life" .... Full circle, huh?
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