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Author Topic: Newbie question about getting foundation drawn  (Read 1171 times)
wisnewbee
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« on: April 13, 2011, 04:03:51 PM »

This is a newbie question. I am getting an established hive. It is being made up like a Nuc. 9 drawn frames with brood and stores. Think 2 Nucs in one. I'm to pick it up about the first week in May. That should be just before the first nector flow here. When I get it, it should be ready to have a second deep brood super added to it. All my other frames, whether deep or medium are new foundation, and undrawn.

Would you recommend just adding the additional super on top, or pulling a frame of stores (honey/pollen) and putting that into the new upper deep and replacing the frames removed with undrawn frames? I'm looking to build the hive population as quickly as possible. Would adding the the new, undrawn frames in place of the filled frames in the lower deep entice the bees to draw the comb faster?

Thanks for the input.

Bill

Bill
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T Beek
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« Reply #1 on: April 13, 2011, 06:20:30 PM »

Oh boy, lots to decipher here.  First I'd give them at least a few days or a week to orient.  I'd put the NUC (s), you weren't clear of size or how many (two NUCs in one on a nine frame?Huh, most are four or five frames), in 'one' 8 or 10 frame deep if you're using deeps (I only use mediums so I'd use two) and let them build that out some before adding another box. Giving bees alot of room does not motivate them to expand out into the room you provide without some thought behind it.  Then in the meantime, before adding another box I'd do some searching on this site, as some of your questions have been discussed to death pretty recently, such as expanding broodnest and checkerboarding.  Diligent research is part of beekeeping and it never ends grin.  Hope this helps, Good luck and keep us posted.

thomas
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sc-bee
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« Reply #2 on: April 13, 2011, 06:38:42 PM »

>Then in the meantime, before adding another box I'd do some searching on this site, as  some of your questions have been discussed to death pretty recently, such as expanding broodnest and checkerboarding.  Diligent research is part of beekeeping and it never ends grin.

Whooooo meeeeee!!! grin grin

Sounds like from what I read above, everything will already be in one box. Make sure you evaluate your feed needs depending on how long before your flow. If you need feed add a box and feed if no room for feed to be stored and you are packed with brood. Feed 1:1 syrup ---- to help draw the foundation if they will take it. As the flow starts they may not take it. As you feed if needed make sure the queen does not get honey (feed) bound! Some folks say they will only take it if they need it. This does not necessarily hold true at all times.

The bees if they have ample room will only draw the comb underfoot as they need it. Some folks like to move some brood up top and think it helps draw the bees up ---- but what are your temps now at nite? Be aware of chilling the brood if you separate it.

As mentioned above make sure the queen has room to expand to avoid swarming. And there are many methods in which to try and accomplish this!
« Last Edit: April 13, 2011, 06:54:31 PM by sc-bee » Logged

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T Beek
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« Reply #3 on: April 13, 2011, 06:58:04 PM »

Your flow begins with the dandelions, comming up pretty quick in Wausau.

thomas
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sc-bee
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« Reply #4 on: April 13, 2011, 07:01:03 PM »

T beek should be your good source of info ---- being he is in Wisconsin! Wink
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wisnewbee
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« Reply #5 on: April 13, 2011, 11:03:01 PM »

Let me clarify a little bit. I am getting a single colony. This will be 9 frames of brood, stores, and bees. This approximately the same size as 2 Nucs, but with 1 queen. I have been following the checkerboarding thread. That's part of the reason I'm asking the question. Not sure if I should be expanding the brood area, or checkerboarding. The overnight temps in the beginning of May, when I get my bees should okay. Above freezing for the most part. I was wondering if moving up some of the stores to the top box would accelerate the bees drawing the comb in the new upper brood box. I'm going to have 2 deep brood boxes, and I'll be using mediums for honey supers. I'm not sure when the dandelions start, next couple of weeks I'm sure. The snow is finally gone (move snow forecast for the weekend), and the grass is just starting to turn green. My main concern is because all additional frames I have are not drawn comb. Thanks for the input.

Bill
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organicfarmer
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« Reply #6 on: April 14, 2011, 12:33:40 AM »

If your colony comes in 9 frames of honey brood and bees, it is ready to take a second deep (that's what you say you are using for hive bodies). You can expand broodnest keeping it as a unit. Don't split the nest at bottom with the undrawn frame from 2nd body unless bees can quickly fill up that space when you remove the initial frame; it may be the case beginning of May.
You are not at the checkerboarding stage as this is more nectar management above the broodnest. It has not much to do with broodnest itself (though some with swarm prevention)
http://www.bushfarms.com/beesulbn.htm
http://www.bushfarms.com/beesspring.htm
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VolunteerK9
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« Reply #7 on: April 14, 2011, 09:24:02 AM »

If your colony comes in 9 frames of honey brood and bees, it is ready to take a second deep (that's what you say you are using for hive bodies). You can expand broodnest keeping it as a unit. Don't split the nest at bottom with the undrawn frame from 2nd body unless bees can quickly fill up that space when you remove the initial frame; it may be the case beginning of May.
You are not at the checkerboarding stage as this is more nectar management above the broodnest. It has not much to do with broodnest itself (though some with swarm prevention)
http://www.bushfarms.com/beesulbn.htm
http://www.bushfarms.com/beesspring.htm


I agree....when you have 2 deeps boiling over with bees, then you can expand the brood nest. I wouldnt worry about it til then
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Finski
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« Reply #8 on: April 14, 2011, 10:34:47 AM »

.
You want that bees expand as fast as possible. But there is no such a speed.

Brood cycle is 3 weeks. What has meaning is the radius of brood ball.

With electrict heating+pollen patty  i have been able to speed up spring build up 3 fold. That works with a big  colony which fills  2 boxs.

5 frame colony is difficult to speed up. It lives with its own speed.

MY EXPERIENCE IS THAT speed of builf up in spring depends on 3 thing: start size, heat of the hive and continuous protein supply.

Weathers are  fluctuating. You never know what is next week.

Drawing foundations, adding combs of sugar feeding does not work.




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Finski
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« Reply #9 on: April 14, 2011, 10:41:19 AM »

.
How is your summer or spring going in Wisconsin? Have you lots of flowers?

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wisnewbee
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« Reply #10 on: April 14, 2011, 11:04:16 AM »

Hi Finski,

The snow just melted a couple days ago. The only thing flowering is maple and willow. Still a couple weeks away from the flow. Thanks for the advise everyone.

Bill
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Finski
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« Reply #11 on: April 14, 2011, 11:36:23 AM »

Hi Finski,

The snow just melted a couple days ago. The only thing flowering is maple and willow. Still a couple weeks away from the flow. Thanks for the advise everyone.

Bill

we have such a situation in the middle of May. Our summer stars may vary 3 weeks, not more.

Our first flow begins when apple trees, huge white willows and dandelions start blooming. Normaly hives are not in such condition that they get surplus honey. They use all food to make new bees.

When dandelions starts to bloom, here all wintered bees have died. Colonies have not yet expanded.

In this point bees do not want to draw foundations.

Dandelion honey is very valuable and good. I do not want to use it to comb building.

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wisnewbee
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« Reply #12 on: April 15, 2011, 09:11:04 AM »

Hi Finski,

It is normal for us to get some snow well into May. We can also have freezing temperatures into late May. A lot of people don't start their gardens here until the last weekend of May to try and avoid the late frosts. Our snow is gone now, but the weatherman says we will probably be getting more snow this weekend. Cry

Bill
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