Need Bees Removed?
International
Beekeeping Forums
July 25, 2014, 08:00:50 AM *
Welcome, Guest. Please login or register.
Did you miss your activation email?

Login with username, password and session length
News: ATTENTION ALL NEW MEMBERS
PLEASE READ THIS OR YOUR ACCOUNT MAY BE DELETED - CLICK HERE
 
   Home   Help Search Calendar bee removal Login Register Chat(1)  

Pages: [1]   Go Down
  Print  
Author Topic: Schiavo Autopsy Says Brain, Withered, Was Untreatable  (Read 2818 times)
BigRog
House Bee
**
Offline Offline

Posts: 111

Location: Richmond, Virginia


« on: June 16, 2005, 10:08:46 AM »

Schiavo Autopsy Says Brain, Withered, Was Untreatable



By ABBY GOODNOUGH
Published: June 16, 2005
MIAMI, June 15 - An exhaustive autopsy found that Terri Schiavo's brain had withered to half the normal size since her collapse in 1990 and that no treatment could have remotely improved her condition, medical examiners said on Wednesday.



Chris O'Meara/Associated Press
Dr. Jon Thogmartin, right, and Dr. Stephen Nelson, released Terri Schiavo's autopsy results on Wednesday during a news conference in Clearwater, Fla.




Congressional Memo: Debate Over Legislative Actions Is Renewed (June 16, 2005)

Autopsy Report (pdf)

http://news.findlaw.com/nytimes/docs/schiavo/61305autopsyrpt.pdf

Case Documents The autopsy results, released almost three months after Ms. Schiavo died after the court-ordered removal of her feeding tube, effectively quashed allegations by her parents that she had been abused by her husband. Yet the findings also questioned the prevailing theory that an eating disorder had prompted Ms. Schiavo's collapse, stating there was not enough hard evidence.

The report generally supported the contention of Ms. Schiavo's husband, Michael, accepted by judges in six courts over the years, that she was unaware and incapable of recovering. And it countered arguments by her family, who badly wanted to win custody of Ms. Schiavo, that she was responsive and could improve with therapy.

In the last months of her life, the fight over Ms. Schiavo produced a searing national debate about the rights of incapacitated people and when their lives should end if they left no specific instructions. The question of whether Mr. Schiavo should bring about his wife's death by removing her feeding tube, or whether he should cede custody to her parents, went on for seven years, reaching the Vatican, the White House, Congress and finally the United States Supreme Court, which declined to hear the case.

But the autopsy left unresolved the mystery, which haunted not just her husband and parents but ultimately much of the nation, of why Ms. Schiavo's heart stopped beating late one night when she was 26. The ensuing brain damage left her able to breathe on her own but not, most doctors said, to think or to have emotions.

"The only diagnosis that I know for sure is that her brain went without oxygen," said Dr. Jon R. Thogmartin, the medical examiner who led the autopsy in Pinellas County, where Ms. Schiavo had spent her final years in a hospice. "Why? That is undetermined."

The autopsy also found that the brain deterioration had left her blind. That finding, along with the determination that the brain damage was irreversible, caused some Republicans in Washington, who had pushed so hard for federal intervention in her case, to have second thoughts. And Democrats cited the autopsy results as proof that critics of the federal intervention had been vindicated. (Related Article)

At a news conference in Largo, near Tampa, Dr. Thogmartin said the condition of Ms. Schiavo's body was "consistent" with earlier medical findings that she was in a persistent vegetative state. Her parents, who believed she might some day eat and drink on her own or even speak, had rejected that diagnosis. But the courts accepted testimony from Ms. Schiavo's husband, Michael, that she would not want to stay alive in her condition.

"This damage was irreversible," Dr. Thogmartin said of Ms. Schiavo's brain. "No amount of therapy or treatment would have regenerated the massive loss of neurons."

Yet a lawyer for Ms. Schiavo's parents, Robert and Mary Schindler, said they still believed their daughter had responded to their voices and touch. The lawyer, David Gibbs, said the parents, who were traveling in Minnesota on Wednesday, also doubted the finding that Ms. Schiavo was blind. The Schindlers had released videos showing their daughter appearing to smile at her mother and track a balloon with her eyes.

"She had a life that was worth saving," Mr. Gibbs said.

Dr. Thogmartin said that in addition to studying Ms. Schiavo's remains, he had scoured court, medical and other records and interviewed her family members, doctors and other relevant parties. A specialist in Michigan separately studied Ms. Schiavo's heart tissue, and a laboratory in Connecticut determined that she did not have a genetic mutation that might have caused her heart to stop.

Ms. Schiavo had lost more than 100 pounds between her teenage years and the time of her collapse, and some doctors had theorized that her heart had stopped due to bulimia. Her husband even won a malpractice lawsuit on that premise, persuading a jury to award $1 million in damages on the grounds that Ms. Schiavo's obstetrician had failed to diagnose bulimia.

But Dr. Thogmartin stopped short of that conclusion. He said that while Ms. Schiavo had a low potassium level after her collapse, a symptom of an eating disorder, there was no evidence of her taking diet pills or laxatives or binging and purging.

"You end up with a 26-year-old that used to be heavy, that now lost the weight, is reveling in her thinness now, enjoying her life, and doesn't want to gain the weight back," Dr. Thogmartin said. "And if that's a bulimic, there's a lot of bulimics out there. It's just not enough."


Case Documents He added that Ms. Schiavo's potassium level could possibly have dropped immediately after her heart stopped, perhaps during resuscitation efforts. Or, he said, Ms. Schiavo's habit of drinking excessive amounts of caffeinated tea might have even caused the deficiency. But unless new evidence comes to light, he said, no one will ever know for sure.

Though Ms. Schiavo went almost two weeks without her gastric feeding tube before dying on March 31, Dr. Thogmartin said she technically died of "marked dehydration," not starvation.

The autopsy also ruled out heart attack or physical abuse causing Ms. Schiavo's collapse. Dr. Thogmartin said drug overdose was unlikely, though the toxicology tests performed immediately afterward would not have detected an overdose of diet pills or caffeine.

"I don't think drugs were sufficiently ruled out," he said.

Ms. Schiavo's parents had accused Mr. Schiavo of abusing their daughter and had even produced bone scans that they said showed damage to her spine, ribs and knees. But Dr. Thogmartin said he found only one fracture on a vertebra, which he said was likely caused by osteoporosis.

Dr. Michael Baden, a forensic pathologist who used to be New York City's chief medical examiner, said the autopsy was more thorough than most and should lay to rest all rumors of foul play.

"The politicians said that if she were treated differently she might have had a different outcome," said Dr. Baden, who was not involved in the autopsy but read the report. "This shows that no matter how you treated her, there wouldn't have been a different outcome."

He added, "This doesn't close the book on the cause of this in the first place. But we know it wasn't trauma or spousal abuse. Whatever the cause, it was a natural one rather than a suspicious one."

Shortly before Ms. Schiavo's death, President Bush cut short a Texas vacation and returned to the White House late one night to sign a law allowing her parents to seek a federal court review of the case. His brother, Gov. Jeb Bush of Florida, also intervened on the Schindlers' behalf, even getting the State Legislature to pass a law in 2003 empowering him to order Ms. Schiavo's feeding tube reinserted after doctors had removed it. But the law was ruled unconstitutional, and Governor Bush eventually declared himself out of options.

On Wednesday, Governor Bush praised Dr. Thogmartin and his staff for their "careful review" and added that he would "continue to strive to protect our most vulnerable citizens."

Michael Schiavo's lawyer, George Felos, said his client felt vindicated by the results.

"For years he feels that he's been talking in the wind," Mr. Felos said. "Mr. Schiavo was pleased to hear the hard science and evidence of those findings."

--------------------------------------

And Ya know
I don't hate to say I told you so
Logged

"Lurch my good man,…what did you mean when you said just now that 'You've got better things to do than run my petty little errands'…….?"
beemaster
Site Founder
Administrator
Galactic Bee
*******
Offline Offline

Gender: Male
Posts: 6222


Location: Manchester, NJ

It is my pleasure to bring the forums to you.


WWW
« Reply #1 on: June 16, 2005, 12:13:05 PM »

Rog:

I haven't read this post yet (home for lunch) but will later. I have though read and heard her final reports and well STAND on my belief that whether she was conscience of it or not, they starved and dehydrated her to death.

Let's do THE SAME THING to an Iraqi prisoner (who is in the same vegitative state) and see what happens! If the plan was to KILL HER (and it was) then it should have been LETHAL INJECTION just as they gave that piece of dog crap Timothy McVey - if HE could be allowed to die humanely, than WHAT ON EARTH did Terri Schaivo (and the family that cared for her) do to deserve this in humane ending?

Again, I'll read the post later.
Logged

NJBeemaster my YOUTUBE Video Collection
Follow us on TWITTER
SKYPE NJBeemaster - include your FORUM NAME in contact request
My Personal FACEBOOK Page


"All donations to our forums are greatly appreciated"
Please click HERE to help support our forum.
BigRog
House Bee
**
Offline Offline

Posts: 111

Location: Richmond, Virginia


« Reply #2 on: June 17, 2005, 10:46:31 AM »

I agree that there should be more humane protocols in place, But for me let me go however you have to.

Don't want to go on like that
Logged

"Lurch my good man,…what did you mean when you said just now that 'You've got better things to do than run my petty little errands'…….?"
BigRog
House Bee
**
Offline Offline

Posts: 111

Location: Richmond, Virginia


« Reply #3 on: June 18, 2005, 12:19:17 AM »

Ya know
he autipsy could have been more skwered.
I think that this ia a fair and unbiased report
The fact the the parents will not accept this shows them to be unrational
Logged

"Lurch my good man,…what did you mean when you said just now that 'You've got better things to do than run my petty little errands'…….?"
beemaster
Site Founder
Administrator
Galactic Bee
*******
Offline Offline

Gender: Male
Posts: 6222


Location: Manchester, NJ

It is my pleasure to bring the forums to you.


WWW
« Reply #4 on: June 18, 2005, 12:56:46 PM »

About Terri's parents being UNABLE to accept the autopsy findings... Remember, the communications through her EYES was ALL they had besides some reactions to talking (whether real or imagined on their part) so to hear their daughter was BLIND (cortically so) was probibly something they NEVER expected to hear.

I just want to know "How is it acceptable for the state to starve her to death" when a parent would have been charged with murder IF they had somehow poisoned her or "Quickened" her passsing some other way QUICKER than what streched out to be a 13 day death.

To them, it was if she were trapped feet away under a building and slowly starved to death as they stood helplessly watching - and while a rescue crew with ALL THE EQUIPMENT IN THE WORLD sat by watching without lending a single hand.

It was cruel, it was murder, it was something we would NEVER be allowed to do with anyone who committed the worst crimes against our nation - the sad part is, it goes on EVERY DAY in this country and it is wrong.

Euthanasia is the only fair way to end a person's life. If we can do it with Timothy McVey, we could have done it with Terri Schaivo. That is the truth and it is sickening to see our government talk and act out of both sides of its mouth.

They slowly murdered that woman in front of her family, with the permission of her scum-bucket husband. Of course NO SIGNS OF FOUL PLAY were evident... If I were strangled 15 years ago and lived, I doubt I'd show any current signs of it today either.
Logged

NJBeemaster my YOUTUBE Video Collection
Follow us on TWITTER
SKYPE NJBeemaster - include your FORUM NAME in contact request
My Personal FACEBOOK Page


"All donations to our forums are greatly appreciated"
Please click HERE to help support our forum.
BigRog
House Bee
**
Offline Offline

Posts: 111

Location: Richmond, Virginia


« Reply #5 on: June 18, 2005, 01:44:21 PM »

If there were some violent act that would have been found, I'm sure it was too late for toxins.
I agree that it is not right that she had to waste away while ciminals get to slip away physically more comfortablebly. I'm sure that the mental anguish of being strapped down and knowing that you're not getting up ie horrible, deservedly so.

Maybe Terry Shivao's real role has beenn to provoke disscussion on a level where change can happen
Logged

"Lurch my good man,…what did you mean when you said just now that 'You've got better things to do than run my petty little errands'…….?"
Jerrymac
Galactic Bee
******
Offline Offline

Gender: Male
Posts: 6047


Location: Wolfforth Texas


« Reply #6 on: June 19, 2005, 11:34:14 AM »

I never kept up with all of this, but here is my question.

Was she brain dead?

If so, why does anyone feel there was any pain and/or suffering associated with the lack of food and water?
Logged

rainbow sunflower  Light travels faster than sound. This is why some people appear bright until you hear them speak.   rainbow sunflower

 Jerry

My pictures.Type in password;  youview
     http://photobucket.com/albums/v225/Jerry-mac/
beemaster
Site Founder
Administrator
Galactic Bee
*******
Offline Offline

Gender: Male
Posts: 6222


Location: Manchester, NJ

It is my pleasure to bring the forums to you.


WWW
« Reply #7 on: June 19, 2005, 07:42:50 PM »

Her brain was shrunk to about 50% of normal brain weight, but she had brain function, she was moving her arms, legs and making facial jestures and head movements: so brain dead she was NOT - I'm saying that the suffering was in her parents and siblings, more than in her. And again, she ALIVE if fed.

If you see no cruelity in this Jerry, I'm surprized. We don't do it to dogs, prisoners, the enemy, but it is okay if it is a woman who has done NOTHING wrong but suffer a morbid incident in her life.

I don't care if you shot her in the head, hung, executed or any other FAST way out, any of those is more humane that the way it was done. The husband had a hidden adjenda, he obviously didn't care for her - his live-in woman and their two kids he bred since Terri's ordeal proves that.

But our laws give Spousal rights over family rights upon marriage and in MOST CASES that is the right thing to do - there has been suspicion concerning HIS role in her situation for 15 years and I truly believe he wanted the evidence to be killed, burnt and spread (after-all, 15 years later, how much FOUL-PLAY evidence could STILL be around) so he went with the ODDS and the piece of crap got his wish.

If Terri's family wanted to take her home, feed and care for her and WAIVE any wrongful actions against the husband, why on Earth would he disagree?

He said Terri's wishes were to NOT remain alive on life support. The last time I looked NUTRITION was NOT classified as LIFE SUPPORT and NUTRITION was the ONLY thing needed to keep her alive.

He had his NEW LIFE, it surely didn't stop him from starting a new family, but you can't marry your Live-In woman if your wife is still alive. He acted out of greed and personal gain - he is trash.

So, I don't wish this situation on anyone, but a HUMANE way out is needed in this country - because IF IT IS NOT HUMANE, than common sense says it is IN-HUMANE and it is THAT which I disagree with.
Logged

NJBeemaster my YOUTUBE Video Collection
Follow us on TWITTER
SKYPE NJBeemaster - include your FORUM NAME in contact request
My Personal FACEBOOK Page


"All donations to our forums are greatly appreciated"
Please click HERE to help support our forum.
Jerrymac
Galactic Bee
******
Offline Offline

Gender: Male
Posts: 6047


Location: Wolfforth Texas


« Reply #8 on: June 19, 2005, 09:49:20 PM »

As I said, I haven't kept up with any of it. I was under the impression she must have been brain dead because, as far as I know, they can't "pull the plug" unless the person is brain dead. Perhaps I am way behind in the times.
Logged

rainbow sunflower  Light travels faster than sound. This is why some people appear bright until you hear them speak.   rainbow sunflower

 Jerry

My pictures.Type in password;  youview
     http://photobucket.com/albums/v225/Jerry-mac/
BigRog
House Bee
**
Offline Offline

Posts: 111

Location: Richmond, Virginia


« Reply #9 on: June 20, 2005, 12:34:45 AM »

Again if I am ever in this position
Give me whatever exit is available


She had no feeling no sense of what was happening.I would gladly take tha same death given the same circumstances
Logged

"Lurch my good man,…what did you mean when you said just now that 'You've got better things to do than run my petty little errands'…….?"
Jerrymac
Galactic Bee
******
Offline Offline

Gender: Male
Posts: 6047


Location: Wolfforth Texas


« Reply #10 on: June 21, 2005, 10:16:06 AM »

After reading this;

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Terri_Schiavo_timeline

I can't see why there is such hostility against Michael Schiavo. He even went to nursing school to be able to take care of his wife better.
Logged

rainbow sunflower  Light travels faster than sound. This is why some people appear bright until you hear them speak.   rainbow sunflower

 Jerry

My pictures.Type in password;  youview
     http://photobucket.com/albums/v225/Jerry-mac/
Lesli
House Bee
**
Offline Offline

Posts: 420


Location: Upstate NY


« Reply #11 on: June 21, 2005, 06:57:52 PM »

Quote
I can't see why there is such hostility against Michael Schiavo.


Me neither. And John, love you man, but please don't let this raise your blood pressure. The fact is, none of really knows another's heart. And in this case, all we hear is rumors and innuendo about strangers. My hope is that this man did what he thought was best for a woman he loved. As things turned out, I doubt very much she could feel anything that was happening to her, and all that died was a shell from which real life departed long ago.
Logged

**************************
Lesli
http://beeyard.blogspot.com/
BigRog
House Bee
**
Offline Offline

Posts: 111

Location: Richmond, Virginia


« Reply #12 on: June 21, 2005, 09:05:28 PM »

Mike Shivano turned down millions from the right to life contingent to turn over care.
He has also turned down multi million dollar book deals and a Ten Million Dollar made for tv movie deal


So I guess it was for the money.

Maybe, just maybe, he knew his wifes most intimate wishes better than anyone else on earth, and kept loyal to that.


And if thats the case MILLIONS of people own him a apology
Logged

"Lurch my good man,…what did you mean when you said just now that 'You've got better things to do than run my petty little errands'…….?"
BigRog
House Bee
**
Offline Offline

Posts: 111

Location: Richmond, Virginia


« Reply #13 on: June 21, 2005, 09:07:13 PM »

And to all those good Chirstians
A reminder

Judge not, Lest ye be judged
Logged

"Lurch my good man,…what did you mean when you said just now that 'You've got better things to do than run my petty little errands'…….?"
Pages: [1]   Go Up
  Print  
 
Jump to:  

Beemaster's Beekeeping Ring
Previous | Home | Join | Random | Next
Powered by MySQL Powered by PHP Powered by SMF 1.1.19 | SMF © 2013, Simple Machines | Sitemap Valid XHTML 1.0! Valid CSS!
Page created in 0.655 seconds with 22 queries.

Google visited last this page July 24, 2014, 06:15:34 AM
anything