Welcome, Guest

Author Topic: More double queens!  (Read 2224 times)

Offline ArmucheeBee

  • Field Bee
  • ***
  • Posts: 514
  • Gender: Male
More double queens!
« on: March 22, 2011, 10:22:02 PM »
Last year I found a double queen hive in Feb.  One Q later disappeared.  This year in Feb. I found another double-Q hive from the same line.  One Q disappeared soon after.  Last week I found another double-Q hive this time from a feral queen.  I seperated them this time.  Put the new (unmarked) Q in a hive with a cutout bunch of bees and their old comb.  She also had a frame of brood from her own hive.  I found multiple eggs in the cells of that frame last week and thought there were problems.  Then tonight I went in and started finding EVERY cell of the old cutout comb with one egg in each.  The cells that held multiple eggs on the frame had matured into nice larva.  So this queen is Right. 

But I know what you are thinking....did I get the cutout Q in with these bees???   Well I really searched hard for her when I put these combs in.  There is a chance however that these eggs could be from the cutout...but I searched twice.  I know the eggs on the frame are from the double Q because at first I had a Q excluder between the cutout and frames.  I took that out 5 days ago after checking for eggs in the old comb.  So I think I covered the bases.

In the previous two cases it was the new queen that disappeared.  So from now on I will seperate these Q.  Why I am having so many I do not know.  I don't know how she could be fertile because I had no drones in the fall when I assume this Q was made.  But I like Q from this feral line so I was looking to split it anyway--FREEBIE!!! :-D
Stephen Stewart
2nd Grade Teacher

"You don't need a license to drive a sandwich."  SpongeBob Squarepants

Offline AliciaH

  • Field Bee
  • ***
  • Posts: 762
  • Gender: Female
Re: More double queens!
« Reply #1 on: March 24, 2011, 03:15:13 PM »
Wow, you consistently have too many queens?  I'd sure like to have your issues, ArmucheeBee!  :-D

Offline ArmucheeBee

  • Field Bee
  • ***
  • Posts: 514
  • Gender: Male
Re: More double queens!
« Reply #2 on: March 24, 2011, 09:33:03 PM »
I'd like to visit that mountain in your pic!!
Stephen Stewart
2nd Grade Teacher

"You don't need a license to drive a sandwich."  SpongeBob Squarepants

Online rdy-b

  • Super Bee
  • *****
  • Posts: 2234
Re: More double queens!
« Reply #3 on: March 24, 2011, 09:54:13 PM »
  two queens are not uncommon-but i was taught that alot of the
 time when this occurs they are mother daughter-and the daughter will lay
 and the mother just walks around with the daughter -Imo sure the daughter
is to replace the failing mother queen-so if you split them-maybe they will supersede
the older one and you will get a new queen any way--RDY-B

Offline ArmucheeBee

  • Field Bee
  • ***
  • Posts: 514
  • Gender: Male
Re: More double queens!
« Reply #4 on: March 24, 2011, 11:02:08 PM »
Well in all three cases the mother is still laying right now!   This third queen is the first I have had lay but I did not seperate the other two.  They disappeared, I believe due to fighting--no evidence though.  When they did disappear they did not swarm.  Also in last year's case the daughter did not disappear until the end of March and there was not an increase in eggs as compared to the other hives at that same time--I was hoping to get twice the eggs--not!
Stephen Stewart
2nd Grade Teacher

"You don't need a license to drive a sandwich."  SpongeBob Squarepants

Online rdy-b

  • Super Bee
  • *****
  • Posts: 2234
Re: More double queens!
« Reply #5 on: March 24, 2011, 11:44:43 PM »
yes no dout that the queen can lay -but it seams like you say the colony only grows
at the same rate as a signal queen colony-because only one queen is laying-compared to
a two queen hive that is engineered by the beekeeper-and over flows with bees and stores-
so we now why bees supersede there queen-lack of pheromone lack of productivity-and many
other reasons-keeping this in mind -it is probable that the older queen out of the mother daughter pair
-is not of the best caliber-or they wouldn't have made a new queen-so even though she dosent lay
when in the same hive as her daughter-she can lay-but would not be as good a queen as the daughter
this is something to think about anyway--RDY-B

Offline ArmucheeBee

  • Field Bee
  • ***
  • Posts: 514
  • Gender: Male
Re: More double queens!
« Reply #6 on: March 25, 2011, 06:50:47 PM »
Why would the old Q put up with the new Q?  Why was there not a swarm?  If the new Q was made late in the fall when the old Q was winding down on egg laying and pheromone, is this why there was not a swarm and not a fight?
Stephen Stewart
2nd Grade Teacher

"You don't need a license to drive a sandwich."  SpongeBob Squarepants

Offline kathyp

  • Universal Bee
  • *******
  • Posts: 15458
  • Gender: Female
Re: More double queens!
« Reply #7 on: March 25, 2011, 06:57:02 PM »
good questions.  don't have the answer, but did read something about how accidentally (or not) splitting the brood nest could lead to the hive making another queen.  wonder if two queens are more common among those who swap boxes?  i have had them, but as noted above, they don't seem to both stay very long. 
.....The greatest changes occur in their country without their cooperation. They are not even aware of precisely what has taken place. They suspect it; they have heard of the event by chance. More than that, they are unconcerned with the fortunes of their village, the safety of their streets, the fate of their church and its vestry. They think that such things have nothing to do with them, that they belong to a powerful stranger called “the government.” They enjoy these goods as tenants, without a sense of ownership, and never give a thought to how they might be improved.....

 Alexis de Tocqueville

Online rdy-b

  • Super Bee
  • *****
  • Posts: 2234
Re: More double queens!
« Reply #8 on: March 25, 2011, 08:02:19 PM »
Why would the old Q put up with the new Q?  Why was there not a swarm?  If the new Q was made late in the fall when the old Q was winding down on egg laying and pheromone, is this why there was not a swarm and not a fight?
I dont know about winding down-I think she is worn out and it could happen at any time-dont think this
happens all the time but we sure see it-and sometimes its beekeeper intervention as kathy mentions-RDY-B

Offline ArmucheeBee

  • Field Bee
  • ***
  • Posts: 514
  • Gender: Male
Re: More double queens!
« Reply #9 on: March 25, 2011, 08:25:37 PM »
I said 'winding down' because the first two cases the old Q was only 8 months old!  I say 'winding down' because they start laying less in the fall and I would assume (don't know) that the phermone concentration winds down too?
Stephen Stewart
2nd Grade Teacher

"You don't need a license to drive a sandwich."  SpongeBob Squarepants

Online rdy-b

  • Super Bee
  • *****
  • Posts: 2234
Re: More double queens!
« Reply #10 on: March 25, 2011, 09:41:07 PM »
I said 'winding down' because the first two cases the old Q was only 8 months old!  I say 'winding down' because they start laying less in the fall and I would assume (don't know) that the phermone concentration winds down too?
well i gusses she wasnt worn out at 8 moths- ;) the phermone should stay strong wheather she lays or not
 they have sent pads on there feet and spread it by moving through out the colony-not sure if it is even conected to egg laying-i think its two diferant departments- :)-RDY-B

Offline AR Beekeeper

  • House Bee
  • **
  • Posts: 81
  • Gender: Male
Re: More double queens!
« Reply #11 on: March 25, 2011, 11:20:33 PM »
I have had mother and daughter queens remain in the same hive for as long a 5 weeks before the mother disappeared.  They would be on the same frame or a frame next to each other.  The mother would lay but not as often as the daughter.  I have never found out who does the dirty deed of dispatching mother, the daughter or the workers.  Mabe she just dies or leaves the hive.

Offline Keeperwannabe

  • House Bee
  • **
  • Posts: 55
  • Gender: Male
Re: More double queens!
« Reply #12 on: July 18, 2011, 03:21:35 AM »
Two years ago in early spring I opened my hive to find two queens, not sure which was original, but I did do a split, both hives looked great and started producing eggs.  I then promptly lost both hives due to what I believe was foulbrood.  I have since destroyed that equipment and have new hives.  I wish I would of been able to keep them going, it was a nice freebie while it lasted.

 

anything