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Author Topic: New Orleans vs. Japan  (Read 2815 times)
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« on: March 16, 2011, 03:31:59 PM »

This is a hard topics to even post without sounding either racist or a realist, I hope I'm the latter. I watch Japan after this devastating "One-Two Punch" they got and can't help but reflect New Orleans and wonder how our society came off looking like savages compared to other cultures?

It was inexcusable, no matter how difficult logistically for us to respond 4-5 days into Katrina. But it didn't take 4-5 days for lawlessness to kick in and thugs to rule the streets. Where is any of that in Japan?

I have always believed there is "some truth" in all stereotypes, that is how they come about - I am a bull-headed Irishman, and a stubborn Leo too. But to see the city of New Orleans get raped by it's own people, especially in such a disastrous period, called for Marshall Law and this was the picture people painted of American's in crisis. It was shameful to watch the dark side of Katrina.

To see Japan's response and see the humanity in their structure and order is refreshing and shows humans still exist on our planet during trying times.
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« Reply #1 on: March 16, 2011, 03:42:54 PM »

agreed...except for one small thing.

Quote
It was inexcusable, no matter how difficult logistically for us to respond 4-5 days into Katrina.

"we" responded day one.  what was particularly disgraceful was the lack of preparedness by the state, and lack of direction from the state.  everything else flowed from that.

the Japanese have more of a collective way of thinking. 
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.....The greatest changes occur in their country without their cooperation. They are not even aware of precisely what has taken place. They suspect it; they have heard of the event by chance. More than that, they are unconcerned with the fortunes of their village, the safety of their streets, the fate of their church and its vestry. They think that such things have nothing to do with them, that they belong to a powerful stranger called “the government.” They enjoy these goods as tenants, without a sense of ownership, and never give a thought to how they might be improved.....

 Alexis de Tocqueville
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« Reply #2 on: March 16, 2011, 03:49:19 PM »

thought i'd add....

this is a good reminder to check your disaster plan.  no one should expect to be rescued right after a disaster no matter where they live.  plan for at least 3 days, probably longer.  food, water, meds, pet food, etc.  have a plan for contact of loved ones.  have a meeting place.  expect to be on your own.
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.....The greatest changes occur in their country without their cooperation. They are not even aware of precisely what has taken place. They suspect it; they have heard of the event by chance. More than that, they are unconcerned with the fortunes of their village, the safety of their streets, the fate of their church and its vestry. They think that such things have nothing to do with them, that they belong to a powerful stranger called “the government.” They enjoy these goods as tenants, without a sense of ownership, and never give a thought to how they might be improved.....

 Alexis de Tocqueville
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« Reply #3 on: March 16, 2011, 03:52:58 PM »

I don't think you can compare the two.

Katrina was devastating, but not as physically destructive as the tsunami.  What are they going to loot in Japan?  The buildings are gone.

Also with katrina, the flood waters stayed limiting outside access.  Once the tsunami was over, law enforcement and support services had just as much access as the population.

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« Reply #4 on: March 16, 2011, 03:55:57 PM »

You really have to live among a people to understand their culture, during my time in the Army I spent time in 3, Turkey (Muslim), Japan (Shinto), and Thailand (Buddhist).  
Even after the overthrow of the Shoguns, Japan was a Feudal society up until the end of WWII.  It was a very ridgid top down society where it was expected that a person (considered as vassal) would willingly sacrifice themselves for failing their superior, So regimented was the society that is was almost a crime to smile without permission.  But even 200 years ago the islands of Japan were crowded and a tight rein was used to maintain order, it became a cultural habit.

Contrast that with Muslim society which, as you peel back the layers of the culture you find one Hyprocrascy after another.  You see some odd things, like Mental Rape (for looking at a female an instant too long) to rape under shia law (a women isn't a rape victim until 3 men come forward as witnesses).

Thailand is somewhere in the middle with the exception of sex, you can still buy a wife in Thailand and dispose of her at your whim simply by placing her shoes outside the house while she is gone.

America, on the otherhand, Australia is similar, is the land of wide open spaces, liberty, and the right to self-distruct.  Katrina was a very good example of that self-distruction.

BTW, I'm an Irish Leo me-self.
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« Reply #5 on: March 16, 2011, 06:21:28 PM »

My wife and I were having this conversation last night. The only conclusion we could come to was that the Japanese people have not been brought up under a culture of "entitilement" as the American people have.
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« Reply #6 on: March 16, 2011, 07:00:01 PM »

think "Borg".  and i don't mean that in an unkind way, but they think of themselves as a piece of the whole.  remember that they are not far out from their god emperor days and they are also a class system.

  there are some similarities with Europeans  in attitude toward government and not questioning, .  the big difference is that the Japanese have not become an entitlement society as the Europeans have.  they are still very family oriented.  things like nursing homes are a relatively recent discovery and only because their birth rate is so very low that there are not kids to care for older kin.  most of the people older that 35ish are at least somewhat religious.  they are also a culture that takes pride in hard work and sacrifice.

they have the ability to compartmentalize.  they are very good at ignoring bad things around them, or at least pretending to.
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.....The greatest changes occur in their country without their cooperation. They are not even aware of precisely what has taken place. They suspect it; they have heard of the event by chance. More than that, they are unconcerned with the fortunes of their village, the safety of their streets, the fate of their church and its vestry. They think that such things have nothing to do with them, that they belong to a powerful stranger called “the government.” They enjoy these goods as tenants, without a sense of ownership, and never give a thought to how they might be improved.....

 Alexis de Tocqueville
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« Reply #7 on: March 16, 2011, 07:50:03 PM »

I have always believed there is "some truth" in all stereotypes, that is how they come about -

"some truth"  lau

There is a lot of truth. It is the thing people don't like about themselves and get POd at anyone that points it out. Thus the term racist. Just something to make you feel bad about noticing the obvious.

Go ahead. Label me.  grin
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« Reply #8 on: March 16, 2011, 08:03:30 PM »

OK, I'll label you. "Brother"
It's about time somebody spoke up.
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« Reply #9 on: March 16, 2011, 08:32:12 PM »

I find it really amazing that as soon as the earthquake hit, the tsunami sirens went off and the people left for higher ground.  Of course the counts are that 14,000 now were lost.  But that is amazing that it is not 100,000 by looking at the destruction.  I think the problem with getting add to the people is that the roads are wash out, the cities and towns are gone and the buildings and ports are now missing.  They are having to rebuild power lines back through the country to get power to the nuclear power plants to run the cooling systems.   Destruction everywhere.   But with all the loss to see the people quietly standing in line to get food and that there were not looting or rioting is amazing to me.     
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« Reply #10 on: March 16, 2011, 08:55:19 PM »

Simply cannot compare the two. During Katrina the thugs choose to stay because they knew all the people would be gone so the houses would be like a buffet cart. Japan does not allow that garbage IMHO the Japanese are a proud people they are still a moral based people. Sure they have their bad elements but its nothing compared to the scum that remained in NO. Look at the response after Katrina between MS and NO MS rebuilt bigger and better NO is still sitting there with their hand out waiting. Something tells me in 5 years Japan will be the MS not the NO

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« Reply #11 on: March 17, 2011, 01:41:30 PM »

Look at "who" was doing the looting, low life types that were brought up taking advantage of the system and our tax dollars.

I pay my taxes and have been working since I was 12. I don't look for hand outs and am disgusted by any type of crime against civilized human beings.

My wife and I were prepared and got the hell out of dodge when we saw how huge of a storm Katrina became in such a very short time.

Please don't link me in the same class as the scum that saw fit to loot, don't even go there.

I understand your point though John but just needed to say that the looters were the minority and not the majority in those trying times.

I commend all civilized human beings who pool together after a disaster, that should be the norm.


...JP
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« Reply #12 on: March 17, 2011, 02:05:58 PM »

I can't imagine anyone thinking ill of you JP, not with the good character you've demonstrated on this site since long before I even started here.
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« Reply #13 on: March 17, 2011, 02:24:25 PM »

I can't imagine anyone thinking ill of you JP, not with the good character you've demonstrated on this site since long before I even started here.

I can, I never did get me one of those shakes mailed to me....

I gained 20 pounds last fall when all those Burger Delight videos went up. Closest thing I found was to wear out the Wendy's Frostys  grin
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« Reply #14 on: March 17, 2011, 03:01:54 PM »

The sad truth, as you said is that you got out of town, that could very much saved your lives. We all saw TV news and know what happened, it was see New Orleans go from before Katrina to something that looked more like 3rd world country in it's 5th generation of poverty.

I have told Trace many times that if she ever get caught in Camden or Newark or Trenton, to look both ways and NEVER stop - drive until you are back on a parkway somewhere. Worse case, a cop see you are a white woman, alone - they will escort you out of town, no questions asked.

Why do so many of our inner cities look more like refugee camps springing up in neglected neigborhoods. Surely, we pay 25% of Medicaid or Disability funds to con artists, many now 5th generation. Again, 5th generation - that tells me, that poverty is the results of generational repetitive abuse of Medicaid like funds.

I'm sorry, but it is time to drug test (at least randomly) all Federal Aid recipients. Those getting caught with Chemicals like cocaine, methm or other concocted drugs - these positive tests should weigh heavy on whether or not you will reman on the system - obviously you are using Federal Tax Dollars to buy drug. It has to stop.

That is a real cut, as a Fed employee I'm subject to testing - I get a pay check from the Feds, just as recipients of Welfare do, except of course I earned it.

Just CUT THE FRAUD - spend billions to save trillions if you have too, but cut the fraud and spend it where it really needs to go: an all digital classroom (and connected learning tablet) would be nice. We need digital books, they are relatively cheap, especially in bulk licenses, they can be updated any time, they grow as new technologies and world experiences happen like Wikipedia, it doesn't have an end.

If a tablet in the Kindle price range were maid as a wifi-3g connected learning center - no books, all in a device that schools issue and parents are responsible for replacing - but it would have every text book, email ability or other social networking for submitting all homework and this simple, always recent tool travels to and from school, fully filled with homework.

The possibilities schools could do, make a password protected section for the parent to see grades and attendance, notes from teachers to them, etc.

We need to leave the paper world behind and teaching our kids in a FORMAT that they are comfortable with, cell phones, smart phones, ipads.

This isn't that Jessie Jackson Jr. speech, far from it. if all a kid had to do was type in a username and password to any unit, that students account would load where it was left off. The idea similar to the FREE BIKES in many cities, you just grab one and drop it off at a designated different spot.

Imagine, grab and go education, how easy it would be to teach from a digital medias, like power points with embedded videos. The tool would boost our education from the shameful place it is in the world list of education.

And no matter what, f we are to succeed in creating the greatest minds in the world, we must see that EVERY QUALIFIED STUDENT get the education they need and build a nation of outstanding dreamers that will create the tomorrow we need to rebirth our economy and kick-start our nation into building and supplying needs for other countries and be competitive once again.

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« Reply #15 on: March 17, 2011, 03:10:39 PM »

JP i saw a huge difference in behavior and expectations between NO and your area.  i was south after Rita came through.  the people down there were just as impacted and no one paid any attention because the Katrina folks were still sucking the air out of all the coverage. 
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.....The greatest changes occur in their country without their cooperation. They are not even aware of precisely what has taken place. They suspect it; they have heard of the event by chance. More than that, they are unconcerned with the fortunes of their village, the safety of their streets, the fate of their church and its vestry. They think that such things have nothing to do with them, that they belong to a powerful stranger called “the government.” They enjoy these goods as tenants, without a sense of ownership, and never give a thought to how they might be improved.....

 Alexis de Tocqueville
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« Reply #16 on: March 17, 2011, 07:54:54 PM »

JP so you know. the world knows there is a difference i felt bad writing what i wrote i thought you might take it wrong. I was writing about the scum that was out wading through the water during the eye passing over not even waiting for the end to loot

Keith
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« Reply #17 on: March 18, 2011, 12:21:00 AM »

Keith, as if the storm wasn't bad enough, we turn on the tv and see that B.S! We seriously couldn't believe what we were seeing. I don't know about you buddy but when I see scum taking advantage of honest workin' folks its pop a cap time.

I believe in zero tolerance.


...JP
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« Reply #18 on: March 18, 2011, 01:05:50 AM »

Keith, as if the storm wasn't bad enough, we turn on the tv and see that B.S! We seriously couldn't believe what we were seeing. I don't know about you buddy but when I see scum taking advantage of honest workin' folks its pop a cap time.

I believe in zero tolerance.


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« Reply #19 on: March 18, 2011, 08:12:37 AM »

Keith, as if the storm wasn't bad enough, we turn on the tv and see that B.S! We seriously couldn't believe what we were seeing. I don't know about you buddy but when I see scum taking advantage of honest workin' folks its pop a cap time.

I believe in zero tolerance.


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« Reply #20 on: March 18, 2011, 07:24:32 PM »

And hey. Get a load of this? Bet this didn't happen in NO





Yakuza to the rescue in Japan

http://news.yahoo.com/s/dailybeast/12990_japaneseyakuzaaidearthquakereliefefforts
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« Reply #21 on: March 18, 2011, 08:04:00 PM »

Cool story.   
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« Reply #22 on: March 19, 2011, 08:50:00 AM »

And hey. Get a load of this? Bet this didn't happen in NO





Yakuza to the rescue in Japan

http://news.yahoo.com/s/dailybeast/12990_japaneseyakuzaaidearthquakereliefefforts


Oh yes it did happen absolutly they did send trucks, the only difference being they sent empty trucks that left full

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« Reply #23 on: March 19, 2011, 09:02:01 AM »

Here is how New Orleans criminal element choose to contribute



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« Reply #24 on: March 19, 2011, 09:05:32 AM »

And who could forget  this poor soul looting much needed water oh wait that ain't water rolleyes rolleyes



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Keith
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« Reply #25 on: March 19, 2011, 11:15:20 AM »

in an emergency any fluid is good fluid.

what was interesting to me what how what happened in NO colored the entire relief effort.  most of the blame belongs to the press who blew the relatively few bad things way out of proportion. 
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.....The greatest changes occur in their country without their cooperation. They are not even aware of precisely what has taken place. They suspect it; they have heard of the event by chance. More than that, they are unconcerned with the fortunes of their village, the safety of their streets, the fate of their church and its vestry. They think that such things have nothing to do with them, that they belong to a powerful stranger called “the government.” They enjoy these goods as tenants, without a sense of ownership, and never give a thought to how they might be improved.....

 Alexis de Tocqueville
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« Reply #26 on: March 20, 2011, 10:03:29 AM »

in an emergency any fluid is good fluid.

what was interesting to me what how what happened in NO colored the entire relief effort.  most of the blame belongs to the press who blew the relatively few bad things way out of proportion.  

That was my point exactly Kathy. Thank you for sharing that.

We have some terrific people here, most very kind, that would give you the shirt off their back, not to mention our good food!

Our government just needs to stop the enabling, but isn't that true just about anywhere?


...JP
« Last Edit: March 22, 2011, 12:14:05 AM by JP » Logged

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« Reply #27 on: March 21, 2011, 06:18:27 PM »



Our government just needs to stop the enabling, but isn't that true just about anywhere?



Amen
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« Reply #28 on: March 21, 2011, 09:37:59 PM »

this may be a little off topic, since firearms in Japan aren't really a thing...

NRA: The Untold Story of Gun Confiscation After Katrina


Anyone going door to door asking legal gun owners for their weapons is obeying a an illegal order and acting in violation of the supreme law of the land.
(UN treaties or not).
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