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Author Topic: another "why did they die"  (Read 2914 times)
rgy
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« on: March 15, 2011, 03:23:16 PM »

two weeks ago both of my hives were alive and well, yesterday one is dead.  I thought I had licked out as a newbee and was going to make it through my first winter at 100% survival. 

I had elevated the back of top cover by about 3/16 of an inch to try and get ventilation and snow run off and I had drilled a 3/4" hole in the upper brood box.  When I went out two weeks ago on a mid 40's day, the area around the upper entrance and an area where the top was elevated were covered in runny poop.  It was like the bees were backing up to the opening at letting it rip.

Yesterday I opened it up and a lot of dead on the top inner cover, losts of fecal on the top inner cover and all around the inner cover hole and on the top of the frames under that hole.  (I have to figure out how to post pics.)

There is plenty of stores left and lots of brood!!  One frame had 1/2 brood and several others had at least a 1/4 brood.  the middle frames were empty.  some brood on the far other side of the box.

I have pictures of this.  I am wondering what I should have done or what you think killed my great hive.

thanks bob
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Acebird
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« Reply #1 on: March 15, 2011, 04:32:10 PM »

Quote
I had elevated the back of top cover by about 3/16 of an inch to try and get ventilation and snow run off and I had drilled a 3/4" hole in the upper brood box.

When and why?  Did you see evidence of ice on the cover?
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kathyp
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« Reply #2 on: March 15, 2011, 07:14:01 PM »

post the pics and we can look.  sounds like some nosema, but there might be other things. they can also poop and impressive amount when they first get out.   post as many frame pics as you can of both stores, brood, and bees.  were the bees dead in a cluster or on the bottom of the box?

i don't want to start this debate all over again, but i think ventilation in winter is highly over-rated.  better to tip the entire box for run off than to open it.  however, if your temps were above freezing and there were plenty of bees in there, cracking it open probably didn't kill them outright.

we await your pics  Wink
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.....The greatest changes occur in their country without their cooperation. They are not even aware of precisely what has taken place. They suspect it; they have heard of the event by chance. More than that, they are unconcerned with the fortunes of their village, the safety of their streets, the fate of their church and its vestry. They think that such things have nothing to do with them, that they belong to a powerful stranger called “the government.” They enjoy these goods as tenants, without a sense of ownership, and never give a thought to how they might be improved.....

 Alexis de Tocqueville
BjornBee
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« Reply #3 on: March 15, 2011, 07:41:19 PM »

we await your pics  Wink

Just don't send us that image shack crap!  grin

(that was for kathy!  Wink )

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rgy
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« Reply #4 on: March 15, 2011, 08:04:14 PM »

who can I send the pictures to so they can post for me?

how do I salvage the frames and wax with the dead brood in them?
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rgy
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« Reply #5 on: March 15, 2011, 08:09:27 PM »

Acebird, in the late fall I added small shims in the back of the top.  First year beeks and we did learn a lot, but man I thought we were going to make it even with our screw ups.
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NasalSponge
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« Reply #6 on: March 15, 2011, 08:13:23 PM »

Give the frames to a hive, they will clean it up.
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rgy
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« Reply #7 on: March 15, 2011, 08:18:56 PM »

dead hive 001.jpg
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NasalSponge
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« Reply #8 on: March 15, 2011, 08:30:48 PM »

You have to upload your pictures to a hosting site like Photobucket.com then post the link with the IMG prefix.
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kathyp
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« Reply #9 on: March 15, 2011, 08:31:11 PM »

you should be able to post your own.  you can use the image shack button at the bottom of the post box, or put them some place like picasa and post them from there.
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.....The greatest changes occur in their country without their cooperation. They are not even aware of precisely what has taken place. They suspect it; they have heard of the event by chance. More than that, they are unconcerned with the fortunes of their village, the safety of their streets, the fate of their church and its vestry. They think that such things have nothing to do with them, that they belong to a powerful stranger called “the government.” They enjoy these goods as tenants, without a sense of ownership, and never give a thought to how they might be improved.....

 Alexis de Tocqueville
rgy
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« Reply #10 on: March 15, 2011, 09:03:15 PM »

image shack has out smarted the two of us.
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kathyp
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« Reply #11 on: March 15, 2011, 09:07:21 PM »

just click on the button below and put the location of your picture in the box that has the little file next to it with the browse button.  that browse button will let you find the pictures on your computer (you need to know where you put them) and you can just click the picture and the location will go in the box.
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.....The greatest changes occur in their country without their cooperation. They are not even aware of precisely what has taken place. They suspect it; they have heard of the event by chance. More than that, they are unconcerned with the fortunes of their village, the safety of their streets, the fate of their church and its vestry. They think that such things have nothing to do with them, that they belong to a powerful stranger called “the government.” They enjoy these goods as tenants, without a sense of ownership, and never give a thought to how they might be improved.....

 Alexis de Tocqueville
rgy
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« Reply #12 on: March 15, 2011, 09:40:06 PM »

got some of them to photobucket, now how do I post withthe IMG prefix as stated above?
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Tommyt
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« Reply #13 on: March 15, 2011, 09:56:11 PM »

{img}your photobucket address here{/img}

Use the above and replace{  } with [ ]
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iddee
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« Reply #14 on: March 15, 2011, 09:57:10 PM »

Photo bucket is easy. Go to the pic you want and hover your curser over the pic. A window will open under it. Click on the bottom line where it says IMG CODE. Then paste onto your reply. It will open the pic when you submit.
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Acebird
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« Reply #15 on: March 16, 2011, 09:23:43 AM »

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image shack has out smarted the two of us.

Everytime I go to a pic from image shack my virus software goes nuts so I kill my web browser and reopen to make sure.  I personally would avoid image shack on this site.  Follow iddee's instructions, piece of cake.  Note: if you are too new you can't post pics.

There is a lot to learn as a newbie and unfortunately a lot to unlearn making it a difficult hobby to master.  Most hobbies costs large sums of money to be active.  With bees you have the option of going cheap or spend to your hearts content.  Like all hobbies though it is easy to get hooked.  Don't look back at your failures, look forward to your successes.
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T Beek
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« Reply #16 on: March 16, 2011, 12:09:22 PM »

The shims "in back" likely caused a cross draft, bad for honey bees.  Why did you drill a hole in the brood box??

thomas
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rgy
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« Reply #17 on: March 16, 2011, 09:49:29 PM »

tbeek, i drilled a hole in the upper brood box to give another exit ( snow) and for ventilation.  I did not wrap the hive just left it the way it was and  and I live in Michigan so it has been  well below freezing. they made it until just last week when the temps. got intto the mid 30's (occasionally mid 40's-. when I checked on them two weeks ago) into the low 20's for night.
  every thing has been the same since Oct. and all of the sudden runny poop out of the elevated side then dead the next week. 

I started two hives last yr and this was the strong one that I got one super of honey off of.  the one next to it had problems all summer and I ended up combining it with a nuc to get them through winter.  that weak hive is still alive with the same upper hole and no wrap. but it does not have the poop stains.

will work on pics tomorrow.

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T Beek
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« Reply #18 on: March 17, 2011, 05:59:04 AM »

No two colonies are the same, just like people Wink  Instead of drilling holes in brood boxes, if you want to use top entrances, just notch out your inner covers 1/4 x 2 inches.  Put notched side facing down on same side as bottom entrance (inner covers used to come this way).

A 3/4 inch hole in a brood box during Michigan winter is a pretty big hole and will let in a lot of cold air which then drafts out the BACK side after crossing over your bees.  Shimming up the BACK (of top cover, right?) will cause cross-drafts and a stressful life for bees and you.

After 5-6 months inside it can look like a poop explosion when they can finally get out.

An older Wink beek recently told me "a hive may not be dead in Spring but may just appear so"  You wouldn't be the first beek to dump a live colony that was thought to be dead Cry.  Some beeks won't dump a "presumed" dead hive until temps reach into the 60's and they know for sure.  Just something to think about, especially a young colony and one that can be assumed came from the South for a Northern Winter.  Good luck with posting your pics.  

thomas
« Last Edit: March 17, 2011, 06:54:35 AM by T Beek » Logged

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BjornBee
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« Reply #19 on: March 17, 2011, 06:39:21 AM »

A 3/4 inch hole in any brood box is not too much.

It may be too much if you add it in the fall. But if your hives are configured with a hole in the brood box and the bees are allowed to arrange, fill, and manipulate openings as they see fit, then they will do just fine.

I have upper holes in almost all my second brood boxes. These allow ventilation with a full draft through the entire hive. An upper entrance (not to be confused with a top entrance) will still allow a trapped area of heat, that benefits early spring brood rearing, and allows the bees to cluster draft free at the top of the hive when they need too.

For me, much of the top entrance advice (which goes against what bees favor in site selection) is hysteria and hype brought about by beekeepers feeding syrup in the fall and causing this unnatural moisture condition to begin with.

In nature, bees prefer a lower entrance. And in situations where a tree may offer multiple entrances which you will see many times, the bees build comb in various configurations (not straight) that inhibit drafts, and allow the bees to control moisture in ways that a modern hive does not allow.
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Please Support "National Honey Bee Day"
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