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Author Topic: Pot calling the kettle black.....obama irony.  (Read 7596 times)
Jerrymac
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« Reply #60 on: March 23, 2011, 10:40:32 AM »


"Our intelligence sources tell us that he (Saddam) has attempted to purchase high-strength aluminum tubes suitable for nuclear weapons production."  -state of the union in 2003

If the intelligence sources told him that, then how is that a lie from Bush? It might be/is a lie from the intelligence sources.  rolleyes
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« Reply #61 on: March 23, 2011, 10:55:59 AM »

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the IAEA as well as dozens of other leading scientists declared those tubes were unsuitable for nuclear weapons production and their reports were a couple months before the war in iraq.


seems to me that was what they said about Iran's first attempts too......

lets check your source:  this is the same IAEA that was caught totally by surprise when India and Pakistan tested nukes.  same IAEA that was surprised the Korea had gotten it program up and working.  Same IAEA that was headed by Elbaradi, who bemoaned the fact that Israel had nukes but Iran was not allowed to have them.  who was in charge of the IAEA while both Korea and Iran were developing their programs, while AQ Kahn was spreading nuke tech around the world, and who now appears to have Muslim Brotherhood ties in Egypt...and BTW, wants to run the country.....

i know that i have recommended this book before, but i will again.  it is probably the best compilation of intel that i have found.  it is not written by a bush fan or a war in Iraq fan.  you like to read.  expand your horizons..
http://www.amazon.com/Secret-History-Iraq-Yossef-Bodansky/dp/0060736798
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.....The greatest changes occur in their country without their cooperation. They are not even aware of precisely what has taken place. They suspect it; they have heard of the event by chance. More than that, they are unconcerned with the fortunes of their village, the safety of their streets, the fate of their church and its vestry. They think that such things have nothing to do with them, that they belong to a powerful stranger called “the government.” They enjoy these goods as tenants, without a sense of ownership, and never give a thought to how they might be improved.....

 Alexis de Tocqueville
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« Reply #62 on: March 23, 2011, 11:00:17 AM »

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you can stand up for bush that's fine....we can polish a turd all day long...and it's still a turd. 


i am not defending bush.  i am challenging you to defend inflammatory comments.

Ron Pauls policy won't work because it's based on false premises.  he fails to understand the enemy.  if you do not understand them, you can't make good decisions about them.
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.....The greatest changes occur in their country without their cooperation. They are not even aware of precisely what has taken place. They suspect it; they have heard of the event by chance. More than that, they are unconcerned with the fortunes of their village, the safety of their streets, the fate of their church and its vestry. They think that such things have nothing to do with them, that they belong to a powerful stranger called “the government.” They enjoy these goods as tenants, without a sense of ownership, and never give a thought to how they might be improved.....

 Alexis de Tocqueville
thebalvenie
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« Reply #63 on: March 23, 2011, 11:04:51 AM »


"Our intelligence sources tell us that he (Saddam) has attempted to purchase high-strength aluminum tubes suitable for nuclear weapons production."  -state of the union in 2003

If the intelligence sources told him that, then how is that a lie from Bush? It might be/is a lie from the intelligence sources.  rolleyes

gotcha i get that....so remember that when obama ISN'T lying...he's only as good as his sources
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Bee Happy
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« Reply #64 on: March 23, 2011, 11:10:20 AM »

you are parroting the ron paul BS.  if we were only minding our own business, they wouldn't hate us.  that's a major load of crap.

Scratch Ron Paul from my short list. You've summed up "clueless" to perfection.
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kathyp
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« Reply #65 on: March 23, 2011, 11:22:44 AM »

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so remember that when obama ISN'T lying...he's only as good as his sources

has someone accused obama of lying?  i think he's incompetent.  he might be lying about his motives for some of what he's doing....heath care, as an example, but i don't think he's lying about his reason for doing Libya or expanding Afghanistan forces. i  am not in favor of either.
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.....The greatest changes occur in their country without their cooperation. They are not even aware of precisely what has taken place. They suspect it; they have heard of the event by chance. More than that, they are unconcerned with the fortunes of their village, the safety of their streets, the fate of their church and its vestry. They think that such things have nothing to do with them, that they belong to a powerful stranger called “the government.” They enjoy these goods as tenants, without a sense of ownership, and never give a thought to how they might be improved.....

 Alexis de Tocqueville
thebalvenie
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« Reply #66 on: March 23, 2011, 02:44:41 PM »

thanks bee but i'm anything but clueless...can't blame me for adhering to my own rhetoric that i've grown up on.....

so, in that case i guess i'd just call you clueless too....but i'm stating the us suffers blowback consequences for its military occupation and interventions....but to call me clueless?  that's uncalled for and really doesn't make any sense....i agree on kathy and your views about the radical islams and the terrorist threat...why can't it be a mix of jihad and occupational blowback....who are any of us to really presume the mind of another...especially an islamic fundamentalist.....there's data out there that makes pretty solid cases for both sides of the argument...

don't write ron paul off just because of me pal....do your homework...don't read snippets on a forum and decide..."ah, good enough for me...he's off my shortlist."

kathyp,

then is it too late for me to rescind my comments about bush being a liar?  he just happened to head and oversee what i believe to be the most scandalous presidency ever...from rumsfeld to cheney from scooter and bailouts to wmd's.....i'm leaving it at that...
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« Reply #67 on: March 23, 2011, 04:40:18 PM »

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can't blame me for adhering to my own rhetoric that i've grown up on

"what you grew up on" is not an excuse for not doing your own research.

Quote
who are any of us to really presume the mind of another

i think because they have told us?  how foolish would we be not to believe them?

Quote
he just happened to head and oversee what i believe to be the most scandalous presidency ever...from rumsfeld to cheney from scooter and bailouts to wmd's.....i'm leaving it at that...

fair enough.  you may believe whatever you wish  Wink

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.....The greatest changes occur in their country without their cooperation. They are not even aware of precisely what has taken place. They suspect it; they have heard of the event by chance. More than that, they are unconcerned with the fortunes of their village, the safety of their streets, the fate of their church and its vestry. They think that such things have nothing to do with them, that they belong to a powerful stranger called “the government.” They enjoy these goods as tenants, without a sense of ownership, and never give a thought to how they might be improved.....

 Alexis de Tocqueville
thebalvenie
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« Reply #68 on: March 23, 2011, 06:04:00 PM »

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can't blame me for adhering to my own rhetoric that i've grown up on

"what you grew up on" is not an excuse for not doing your own research.

Quote
who are any of us to really presume the mind of another

i think because they have told us?  how foolish would we be not to believe them?

Quote
he just happened to head and oversee what i believe to be the most scandalous presidency ever...from rumsfeld to cheney from scooter and bailouts to wmd's.....i'm leaving it at that...

fair enough.  you may believe whatever you wish  Wink



i feel i've done plenty of research and still continue to do so

i learn something new everyday Wink
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Keith13
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« Reply #69 on: March 24, 2011, 07:02:28 AM »

if you want to know why a terrorist fights think about this. What does a terrorist shout every time he fires an RPG or detonates an IED?
Does he shout get off our land? Or maybe get out my country?

Nope he shouts "God is great"

Keith
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Keith13
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« Reply #70 on: March 24, 2011, 07:06:09 AM »

"War is the means by which Americans learn geography." Ambrose Bierce

Maybe you should read quotes by Stephen Ambrose instead

Keith
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« Reply #71 on: March 24, 2011, 08:45:57 AM »

thanks bee but i'm anything but clueless...can't blame me for adhering to my own rhetoric that i've grown up on.....

so, in that case i guess i'd just call you clueless too....but i'm stating the us suffers blowback consequences for its military occupation and interventions....but to call me clueless?  that's uncalled for and really doesn't make any sense....i agree on kathy and your views about the radical islams and the terrorist threat...why can't it be a mix of jihad and occupational blowback....who are any of us to really presume the mind of another...especially an islamic fundamentalist.....there's data out there that makes pretty solid cases for both sides of the argument...

don't write ron paul off just because of me pal....do your homework...don't read snippets on a forum and decide..."ah, good enough for me...he's off my shortlist."


Actually, I trust Kathy's research where politician's are concerned.  
Yes, if you adhere to that exact foreign policy, I would call you clueless.
One of the most touted "western/christian aggression" arguments is almost invariably the crusades. the crusades are brought up because they (whoever defends the 'peaceful' muslims with them) either don't know themselves or count on 'you' not to know that the very first introduction Europe had to 'the religion of peace' was an invasion that went completely unchecked until Saladin was killed at tours France in 732AD
 to sum it up in monty python fashion "Oh look, new people, lets go make friends, why are they stabbing the fishmonger? I know he overcharges, but that's a bit much.
so when a muslim defender says "the west started it first, first" it's a crock - they are commanded by their demon Alla to conquer, subjugate and kill, unlike christians, they don't find their violent commandments to be anachronisms. the peaceful lovedrunk parts of the koran were abrogated through an order the christian bible doesn't have to resolve conflicting commandments - they are instructed to refer to the most recent revelation. Islam is a murder/suicide cult. to think for a minute that if we leave them alone they will leave us alone is exactly like thinking the same thing if you're white on a stroll through compton - lots of luck.

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« Reply #72 on: March 24, 2011, 09:11:21 AM »

Glenn Greenwald over at Salon.com has a great piece on this in which he pretty much sums it up:

The evidence of what motivates Terrorism when directed at the U.S. is so overwhelming and undeniable that it takes an extreme propagandist to pretend it doesn't exist. What is Brennan so afraid of? It's true that religious fanaticism is a part of their collective motivation, but why can't he just say what's so obviously true: "they claim that the U.S. is interfering in, occupying and bringing violence to their part of the world, they cite things like civilian deaths and our support for Israel and Guantanamo and torture, and claim that their terrorism is in retaliation"?

Indeed, Brennan's boss, the President, has often claimed that things like Guantanamo and Abu Ghraib help Al Qaeda recruitment (and it seems clear it was part of Abdulmutallab's hatred for the U.S.), so clearly U.S. actions are part of the motivation. Yet Brennan is afraid to acknowledge that not just past actions, but current ones, fuel the desire to target the U.S. for attacks.



"Insanity is doing the same thing over and over and expecting a different response?"



We are acting insanely and it's costing the United States thousands of American lives fighting overseas, trillions of dollars wasted on this so-called "war on terror", and our own country is crumbling from within under the weight of two wars that are wastes of our time.
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« Reply #73 on: March 24, 2011, 09:13:49 AM »

I would guess that most of us can recall exactly where we were and what we were doing when we first heard about the horrific attacks  on the Twin Towers and the subsequent attack on the Pentagon.  There aren’t many moments in your life, no matter how long you live, that you will recall as vividly as the moment you learned about it. The assassination of John F. Kennedy was also like that for me.  I don’t think anyone really feels that they have heard a satisfactory explanation of why Lee Harvey Oswald killed him. That was over forty years ago, and there are still many people who don’t believe the results of the official U.S. government investigation.

The U.S. government’s 9/11 Commission Report has also failed to gain unanimous support.  The report is primarily an analysis of how we failed to prevent the attacks and how we failed to be aware that they might even occur. However, the greatest failure of the report is that no attempt is made to understand what motivated the attacks.  We are left to believe that the motive of Al Qaeda is some sort of radical Islamic hatred of the Christian and Jewish west.  However, just a simple observation of the attacks themselves show quite clearly that the attacks were not at all an attempt to begin a religious war or even to wage a terrorist campaign against people who were not of the Islamic faith. Look at their targets:

The World Trade Center could be described as the financial capital of the multinational businesses of the United States. The twin towers were not only functional centers of finance, they were iconic symbols of America’s mighty economic impact throughout the world. The second target, the Pentagon, is another icon as well as the functional center of the vast military might of the United States.  Long after the attacks occured, and after much investigation, it has been learned that the U.S. Capitol building was the intended target of United flight 93.  The aircraft that crashed in Shanksville, PA after heroic intervention by its passengers. The U.S. Capitol building is also an icon and the functional center of our government.  The 9/11 attacks were an attack on a U.S. financial – military – government triad.  While it would have been easy, there were no attacks on any Christian churchs, Jewish synagogues, Mormon, Buddhist, or Hindu temples or any other religious organizations or icons.  The attackers may well have all been Islamic, but the attacks were not about Islam.

If we are to understand what 9/11 was all about we need to consider one very important point: every single attacker was on a suicide mission. Why is that important? Consider Japan at the close of World War II.  Defeat was seen to be inevitable. Many Japanese feared severe retribution from American forces.  Their backs were against the wall and they expected no mercy. Thus was born the Kamikaze pilots, the “Divine Wind”.  The Kamikaze pilots flew their bomb-laden aircraft directly into American warships in a last ditch attempt to stop the advance of the U.S. Navy and a subsequent invasion. There is little doubt that the courage of these Japanese pilots was sustained, in part, by their trust in God.  However, no one has ever suggested that the Kamikaze attacks were some sort of group of religious fanatics.

Toward the end of World War II the Nazis in Germany also planned to develop a suicide bomber squadron called the Leonidas Squadron. The pilots would fly Messerschmitt Me328 aircraft, equipped with a single 2,000 bomb, into selected Allied targets. There were problems with development of the aircraft, however, and the squadron never saw action.

The common thread among the Nazis, the Japanese Kamikaze, and the Al Qaeda attackers is that they were all desperate attacks. Suicide attacks are always an indicator that the attacker feels severely oppressed and near defeat, but out of a sense of patriotism, rage, and injustice decides to make one final attempt to destroy a hated enemy even if it means his own death.  It’s not about converting someone to his religion, nor is it because he is unhappy that people on the other side of the world don’t worship the same God he does.  The 9/11 attacks were desperate moves by men who felt their backs were to the wall.  But why did they feel that way? And why us? What did we do?

We didn’t do anything. Neither you nor I, nor any of the people who died in the attacks were a threat to Al Qaeda.  The people who were killed are what our military would call “collateral damage”. Sort of like the innocent civilians who were killed in the “Shock and Awe” campaign in Iraq.  The real targets were the iconic, and also functional, buildings of the World Trade Center, the Pentagon, and the Capitol.  But why? Why strike at the heart of our multinational business system, our military, and our government? It’s because these Al Qaeda terrorists, and their leaders, view these three icons as one sort of an unholy Trinity, and it was this Trinity that was threatening their very existence. Al Qaeda was, and is, made up of desperate men, but they are not crazed religious fanatics.

OK, so how can these people feel so threatened? What could we be doing to them that would make them feel that they are on the brink of destruction?  The answer is the same answer that can be given as the cause of all wars: they perceive us as stealing their wealth. It is our wealth that allows us to live. Our homes, our jobs, our land, our money, our industries – all these things, and more, could be considered our collective wealth.  For the people of this part of the world, their principle source of all their wealth lies in a single word: “oil”.

The U.S. has a long and checkered history of being in the oil business in the Middle East.  When Iran nationalized their oil operations in 1951, the U.S. began efforts, led by the CIA, to depose their leader. This succeeded in 1953 when the Shah of Iran was reinstated and Iran began to sell cheap oil to American oil companies again. The Shah was deposed in the Iranian Revolution in 1979 and they haven’t been very friendly to us ever since. Similarly, Saddam Hussein nationalized the Iraqi oil industry in 1972 and tossed the American oil companies out of Iraq. The U.S. invaded Iraq in 2003 and captured Saddam. He was executed on Dec 30, 2006.  The Iraqi Oil Ministry is now negotiating oil deals with Exxon Mobil, BP, Shell, Total, and Chevron so that U.S. companies can pump oil from Iraq again.

It is interesting to note that almost all of the 9/11 Al Qaeda terrorists were from Saudi Arabia. So is Osama bin Laden. None of the terrorists were from Iraq.  Yet, when the U.S. invaded Iraq, Al Qaeda was quick to enter Iraq and join the fight against the U.S. In the past Osama bin Ladin has stated that some Al Qaeda attacks were due to the U.S. support of Israel and its perceived unfair treatment of Palestinians.  It is pretty clear that Al Qaeda sees itself as a sort of defender of last resort of the entire Middle East, defending it from domination, and the subsequent loss of its wealth, by the U.S. Unholy Trinity of our  multinational businesses, military, and government.  The thing is, this is not exactly an irrational fear.

In 1997 the Project for the New American Century was founded. It’s stated proposition was that, “American leadership is good for both America and for the world.” It has been a strong advocate for American leadership, or domination, of the world.  It has been very influential in the Bush administration. In 1998, members of the organization, including Donald Rumsfeld and Paul Wolfowitz warned President Clinton that Saddam was a threat and should be removed because of his weapons of mass destruction.  In a report written in 2000 the group warned that “Over the long term, Iran may well prove as large a threat to U.S. interests in the Gulf as Iraq has.” Paul Wolfowitz became President Bush’s Deputy Secretary of Defense in 2001 and, immediately after the 9/11 attacks, pressed for the invasion of Iraq, an idea also strongly pushed by John McCain at the same time. Donald Rumsfeld was President Bush’s Secretary of Defense at the time.

The fact that these three people immediately advocated an attack on Iraq as a response to 9/11 indicates that their view of the conflict is not too different from that of Osama bin Laden.  This is a conflict between America and its policy of financial, military and political dominance throughout the Middle East and a small group of guerrilla fighters who view this as nothing less than the theft of the entire region’s wealth.Basically they feel they are getting a really, really bad deal.

There is no doubt that these guerrillas are fanatical fighters.  There is no doubt they feel their backs are to the wall. There is no doubt they will employ suicide tactics again if they feel it will help achieve their objective. And there is also no doubt that this war is not about religion.  It is not about Islam or Christianity. Nor is it about American freedom.  It’s not about any of the great emotional issues that the leaders of all countries always try to stoke in order to get their young men to go out and die for their country.

The cause of the 9/11 attack is not radical Islam; it is the same as the cause for every war that has ever taken place. It’s about wealth. It’s about money. It’s about some people believing they are being exploited so badly that they and their way of life can’t survive, and the people on the other side not even aware of this and, come to think of it, not even caring whether they survive or not anyway.

The tragedy is that it is the innocent who always suffer the most.

- rich mcsheehy
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« Reply #74 on: March 24, 2011, 09:15:52 AM »

http://youtu.be/W1pURIukrjw
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« Reply #75 on: March 24, 2011, 09:22:22 AM »

The motives for 9/11 are no mystery. The motives have been stated by several people clearly and repeatedly for years. The terrorists are not attacking us in order to force us to convert to Islam or because we don't believe in Islam or that they don't like freedom or that they are envious.

Note that Osama bin Laden has said why repeatedly and he says that the attacks will continue UNTIL specific foreign policies (American policy in the Middle East and its support of Israel) are stopped. He doesn't say "until you believe in Alah", none of the terrorists have ever said this or anything about attacking us because of our freedoms. It is dangerous to spread false reasons for why 9/11 happened. Please read the following for the motives for 9/11 attacks:     
 "Your position against Muslims in Palestine is despicable and disgraceful.  America has no shame.  ...  We believe that the worst thieves in the world today and the worst terrorists are the Americans.  Nothing could stop you except perhaps retaliation in kind.  We do not have to differentiate between military or civilian.  As far as we are concerned, they are all targets, and this is what the fatwah says ...  .  The fatwah is general (comprehensive) and it includes all those who participate in, or help the Jewish occupiers in killing Muslims. " - Osama bin Laden May 1998     
 "For over half a century, Muslims in Palestine have been slaughtered and assaulted and robbed of their honor and of their property.  Their houses have been blasted, their crops destroyed.  And the strange thing is that any act on their part to avenge themselves or to lift the injustice befalling them causes great agitation in the United Nations which hastens to call for an emergency meeting only to convict the victim and to censure the wronged and the tyrannized whose children have been killed and whose crops have been destroyed and whose farms have been pulverized " - Osama bin Laden May 1998

"The International Islamic Front for Jihad against the U.S. and Israel has issued a crystal-clear fatwa calling on the Islamic nation to carry on jihad aimed at liberating holy sites. The nation of Muhammad has responded to this appeal. If the instigation for jihad against the Jews and the Americans in order to liberate Al-Aksa Mosque and the Holy Ka'aba Islamic shrines in the Middle East is considered a crime, then let history be a witness that I am a criminal." - Osama bin Laden May 1999     
 "We swore that America wouldn't live in security until we live it truly in Palestine . This showed the reality of America, which puts Israel's interest above its own people's interest. America won't get out of this crisis until it gets out of the Arabian Peninsula , and until it stops its support of Israel." -Osama bin Laden, October 2001     
 A German friend of Mohammed Atta(the hijacker pilot who flew into WTC) is quoted as describing him as "most imbued actually about Israeli politics in the region and about US protection of these Israeli politics in the region. And he was to a degree personally suffering from that."     
 These facts point to a motive for attacking the WTC in 2001 that is consistent with the motive expressed by terrorists in a letter sent to the New York Times after the 1993 bombing attack of the WTC,  "We declare our responsibility for the explosion on the mentioned building.  This action was done in response for the American political, economical, and military support to Israel the state of terrorism and to the rest of the dictator countries in the region."     
 It is also the same motive that Mir Aimal Kasi had for killing CIA employees Frank Darling and Lansing Bennett outside CIA headquarters in Langley,Virginia in 1993 . Mir Aimal Kasi said, "What I did was a retaliation against the US government for American policy in the Middle East and its support of Israel ." Mir Aimal Kasi once professed a love for this country, his uncle testified.  "He always say that 'I like America, I love America and I want to go there,'" Amanullah Kasi said at a sentencing hearing for his nephew, Mir Aimal Kasi . Kasi's roommate, who had reported him missing after the shootings, told police that Kasi would get incensed watching CNN when he heard how Muslims were being treated. After the Sept. 11, 2001, terrorist attacks, Kasi said he did not approve of the attack on the World Trade Center because innocent were killed. He understood, however, the attack on the Pentagon, the symbol of government might.     
 The shoe bomber (Richard Reid) has said:"The reason for me sending you (a document he calls his "will") is so you can see that I didn't do this act out of ignorance nor did I just do it because I want to die, but rather because I see it as a duty upon me to help remove the oppressive American forces from the Muslim land and that this is the only way for us to do so as we do not have other means to fight them."
 Abdullah Azzam authored Join the Caravan and he writes, "We then are calling upon the Muslims and urging them to proceed to fight, for many reasons, at the head of which are the following:" Then he lists 16 reasons. NONE of them state that the reason is just for the sake of attacking non-believers.In fact the first reason is: "1. In order that the Disbelievers do not dominate.""Do not dominate"  Note that he does not write "just because they are disbelievers" or "in order to make them believe." NONE of the 16 reasons say "fight to make disbelievers into Muslims"In fact Osama bin Laden addressed the lying about motives for 9/11:
 "... the Mujahideen saw the black gang of thugs in the White House hiding the Truth, and their stupid and foolish leader, who is elected and supported by his people, denying reality and proclaiming that we (the Mujahideen) were striking them because we were jealous of them (the Americans), whereas the reality is that we are striking them because of their evil and injustice in the whole of the Islamic World, especially in Iraq and Palestine and their occupation of the Land of the Two Holy Sanctuaries." -Osama Bin Laden , February 14 , 2003
 in that same statement Osama bin Laden once again listed the motives: " ... in 1995 , the explosion in Riyadh took place, killing four Americans, in a clear message from the people of that region displaying their rejection and opposition to the American policy of bankrolling the Jews and occupying the Land of the Two Holy Sanctuaries. The following year, another explosion in Al-Khobar killed 19 Americans and wounded more than 400 of them, prompting them to move their bases from the cities to the desert . Then in 1998 , the Mujahideen warned America to cease their support to the Jews and to leave the Land of the Two Holy Sanctuaries, but the enemy refused to heed this warning, so the Mujahideen, with the ability from Allah , smashed them with two mighty smashes in East Africa . Then again America was warned, but she refused to pay attention to the warnings, so the Mujahideen destroyed the American Destroyer, the USS Cole, in Aden, in a martyrdom operation, striking a solid blow to the face of the American military and at the same time, exposing the Yemeni Government as American agents, similar to all the countries in the region." -Osama bin Laden February 14, 2003
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« Reply #76 on: March 24, 2011, 09:38:55 AM »

...and what did Europe do? cartoons?
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« Reply #77 on: March 24, 2011, 09:44:59 AM »

"Ceaseless preparation for war is not peace." - Wendell Berry
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"Tu ne cede malis sed contra audentior ito"
thebalvenie
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Vote Ron Paul!!!!!!!!!!!!!


« Reply #78 on: March 24, 2011, 09:51:51 AM »

"True evangelism, based on the example of Jesus, does not suggest the “missionary zeal” of self-righteous proselytizers. It implies, on the contrary, the kind of all-embracing universality evident in Mother Teresa’s prayer: “May God break my heart so completely that the whole world falls in.” Not just fellow nuns, Catholics, Calcuttans, Indians. The whole world. It gives me pause to realize that, were such a prayer said by me and answered by God, I would afterward possess a heart so open that even hate-driven zealots would fall inside. There is a self-righteous knot in me that finds zealotry so repugnant it wants to sit on the sidelines with the like-minded, plaster our cars with bumper stickers that say “Mean People Suck” and “No Billionaire Left Behind” and “Who would Jesus Bomb?”, and leave it at that. But my sense of the world as a gift, my sense of a grace operative in this world despite its terrors, propels me to allow the world to open my heart still wider, even if the openness comes by breaking—for I have seen the whole world fall into a few hearts, and nothing has ever struck me as more beautiful." - david james duncan
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"Tu ne cede malis sed contra audentior ito"
kathyp
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« Reply #79 on: March 24, 2011, 10:08:44 AM »

unfortunately there are a lot of people like you.  they do not know, or do not want to know, the enemy.  also unfortunately, many of them are in this current admin.  Brennan is one and his boss another.

this is not surprising.  here are people who have spent their whole life believing in relativism.  there is no good.  there is no evil.  there is no right. there is no wrong.  if someone wants to kill you, it must be because you have done something to them.....because after all, no ones' belief system is evil (except Christians). if we could only understand them, we could get along with them.....

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.....The greatest changes occur in their country without their cooperation. They are not even aware of precisely what has taken place. They suspect it; they have heard of the event by chance. More than that, they are unconcerned with the fortunes of their village, the safety of their streets, the fate of their church and its vestry. They think that such things have nothing to do with them, that they belong to a powerful stranger called “the government.” They enjoy these goods as tenants, without a sense of ownership, and never give a thought to how they might be improved.....

 Alexis de Tocqueville
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