Need Bees Removed?
International
Beekeeping Forums
October 21, 2014, 12:46:29 PM *
Welcome, Guest. Please login or register.
Did you miss your activation email?

Login with username, password and session length
News: ATTENTION ALL NEW MEMBERS
PLEASE READ THIS OR YOUR ACCOUNT MAY BE DELETED - CLICK HERE
 
   Home   Help Search Calendar bee removal Login Register Chat  

Pages: 1 2 [3] 4 5   Go Down
  Print  
Author Topic: Pot calling the kettle black.....obama irony.  (Read 8387 times)
Bee Happy
Super Bee
*****
Offline Offline

Gender: Male
Posts: 1656


Location: Between Panama city, Florida and Dothan Al.

that's me - setting a phoenix free


« Reply #40 on: March 21, 2011, 11:26:42 PM »

I would if he made the republican ticket. My #1 choice by a wide margin is Allen West. Marco Rubio has insisted he doesn't want the office. The odds are 100% I won't vote for Obama anyway. I liked a few things he said when he was running, but I knew already that if a democrat says conservative things he has no intention of actually doing them. RP may sound clueless (In positions I'm sure I haven't heard), but I think his position on the FED  - if only for congress itself to resume its responsibility to manufacture money - even if it's just "faith" currency (which I think has been wrongly impugned as "worthless" it can be considered as 'backed by anything it can be traded for' rather than a single metallic element) - makes sense.
Any tea party candidate who hasn't surrendered his principles to become just another RINO will definitely suit me though.
Logged

be happy and make others happy.
thebalvenie
House Bee
**
Offline Offline

Gender: Male
Posts: 187


Location: Missoula, MT

Vote Ron Paul!!!!!!!!!!!!!


« Reply #41 on: March 22, 2011, 08:54:53 AM »

Quote
in fact i bet wikipedia would list as much

just don't use widipedia as a source or i'll have to do the catholic nun with the ruler thing to you  evil

do double check your list.  i think you'll find that much of it is false, at best stated in a misleading way, and stated in a way to be intentionally inflammatory.  i also checked that site and i can't believe you even used that site! 

i understand that your heart is with Ron Paul, but this is not a time for hearts.  it's a time for minds.  get your mind in the game.


my mind is in the game Wink  my heart of hearts tells me i'm good if i stick to ron paul austrian economics....

as for wikipedia i most certainly know better...as for that list...if only a quarter of that list is true it surely makes for a good case against bush....now, let's hope obama isn't re-elected so we can see his list real soon.....

thanks again
Logged

"Tu ne cede malis sed contra audentior ito"
thebalvenie
House Bee
**
Offline Offline

Gender: Male
Posts: 187


Location: Missoula, MT

Vote Ron Paul!!!!!!!!!!!!!


« Reply #42 on: March 22, 2011, 08:57:51 AM »

Quote
Tech bubble, Internet bubble, housing bubble, etc

this kind of speculation takes place in commodities.  the others are simply things that were over hyped and over bought.  they are kind of speculated on by those buying stock, but that's not the same as buying the commodities. 

banking issues are different also, but yes they sure can be manipulated.  you need to distinguish between market manipulation by sales and purchases and manipulation by government through regulation and things like printing money.  all can have bad outcomes, but they do not have the same solutions.  in the first case, the market will generally take care of those businesses.  in the second, the market is kept out and government manipulation usually makes everything worse.


loompies can't be used to make your car go.  they are only a component of widgets.  widgets are amazing things and can by used for a multitude of things.  perhaps they could be used as fuel?   grin


inflation and its following consequences of rising prices is also manipulation

kathyp, i recently read a book called rollback by thomas woods....he used a loompie and widget analogy much like yours...you might be interested in that book Wink 
Logged

"Tu ne cede malis sed contra audentior ito"
kathyp
Universal Bee
*******
Online Online

Gender: Female
Posts: 15193


Location: boring, oregon


« Reply #43 on: March 22, 2011, 09:54:52 AM »

Quote
called rollback by thomas woods

i'll check the library for it.

pauls problem is not his domestic ideas.  most of those are ok and most are common sense that all should follow.  where he goes off the rails is on foreign policy.  i don't know if he's naive, or just uneducated.  which ever,  what he believes about foreign policy would get a whole lot of us killed.
Logged

.....The greatest changes occur in their country without their cooperation. They are not even aware of precisely what has taken place. They suspect it; they have heard of the event by chance. More than that, they are unconcerned with the fortunes of their village, the safety of their streets, the fate of their church and its vestry. They think that such things have nothing to do with them, that they belong to a powerful stranger called “the government.” They enjoy these goods as tenants, without a sense of ownership, and never give a thought to how they might be improved.....

 Alexis de Tocqueville
thebalvenie
House Bee
**
Offline Offline

Gender: Male
Posts: 187


Location: Missoula, MT

Vote Ron Paul!!!!!!!!!!!!!


« Reply #44 on: March 22, 2011, 12:43:43 PM »

Quote
called rollback by thomas woods

i'll check the library for it.

pauls problem is not his domestic ideas.  most of those are ok and most are common sense that all should follow.  where he goes off the rails is on foreign policy.  i don't know if he's naive, or just uneducated.  which ever,  what he believes about foreign policy would get a whole lot of us killed.

i know your stance on his stance for foreign policy....i LOVE HIS FOREIGN POLICY Wink  i think he is very educated and i don't think his foreign policy would get us killed anymore than what we are now with wars that are bankrupting us and alienating us on both sides of the fence with numerous foreign countries....
Logged

"Tu ne cede malis sed contra audentior ito"
kathyp
Universal Bee
*******
Online Online

Gender: Female
Posts: 15193


Location: boring, oregon


« Reply #45 on: March 22, 2011, 12:49:45 PM »

Quote
i think he is very educated and i don't think his foreign policy would get us killed anymore than what we are now with wars that are bankrupting us and alienating us on both sides of the fence with numerous foreign countries....

he's absolutely clueless on Islamic fundamentalists and why they fight.  this is the current enemy.  if he doesn't understand their motivation, he's dangerous.  this ain't our daddys' cold war.
Logged

.....The greatest changes occur in their country without their cooperation. They are not even aware of precisely what has taken place. They suspect it; they have heard of the event by chance. More than that, they are unconcerned with the fortunes of their village, the safety of their streets, the fate of their church and its vestry. They think that such things have nothing to do with them, that they belong to a powerful stranger called “the government.” They enjoy these goods as tenants, without a sense of ownership, and never give a thought to how they might be improved.....

 Alexis de Tocqueville
thebalvenie
House Bee
**
Offline Offline

Gender: Male
Posts: 187


Location: Missoula, MT

Vote Ron Paul!!!!!!!!!!!!!


« Reply #46 on: March 22, 2011, 12:57:54 PM »

Quote
i think he is very educated and i don't think his foreign policy would get us killed anymore than what we are now with wars that are bankrupting us and alienating us on both sides of the fence with numerous foreign countries....


he's absolutely clueless on Islamic fundamentalists and why they fight.  this is the current enemy.  if he doesn't understand their motivation, he's dangerous.  this ain't our daddys' cold war.


he's not clueless Wink  again, until you start reading his books and philosophies i'm not sure you can discredit his foreign policy....robert pape wrote dying to win

here's a snippett of the amazon product description...i bought hardback and one for my kindle Wink 

One of the world’s foremost authorities on the subject, Professor Pape has created the first comprehensive database of every suicide terrorist attack in the world from 1980 until today. With striking clarity and precision, Professor Pape uses this unprecedented research to debunk widely held misconceptions about the nature of suicide terrorism and provide a new lens that makes sense of the threat we face.

FACT: Suicide terrorism is not primarily a product of Islamic fundamentalism.

FACT: The world’s leading practitioners of suicide terrorism are the Tamil Tigers in Sri Lanka–a secular, Marxist-Leninist group drawn from Hindu families.

FACT: Ninety-five percent of suicide terrorist attacks occur as part of coherent campaigns organized by large militant organizations with significant public support.

FACT: Every suicide terrorist campaign has had a clear goal that is secular and political: to compel a modern democracy to withdraw military forces from the territory that the terrorists view as their homeland.

FACT: Al-Qaeda fits the above pattern. Although Saudi Arabia is not under American military occupation per se, one major objective of al-Qaeda is the expulsion of U.S. troops from the Persian Gulf region, and as a result there have been repeated attacks by terrorists loyal to Osama bin Laden against American troops in Saudi Arabia and the region as a whole.

FACT: Despite their rhetoric, democracies–including the United States–have routinely made concessions to suicide terrorists. Suicide terrorism is on the rise because terrorists have learned that it’s effective.


and then a video of ron paul 2 years prior to 9/11

http://youtu.be/mGMNns32qVc
Logged

"Tu ne cede malis sed contra audentior ito"
thebalvenie
House Bee
**
Offline Offline

Gender: Male
Posts: 187


Location: Missoula, MT

Vote Ron Paul!!!!!!!!!!!!!


« Reply #47 on: March 22, 2011, 01:02:09 PM »

again,  a great article by pape as well

http://www.danieldrezner.com/research/guest/Pape1.pdf
Logged

"Tu ne cede malis sed contra audentior ito"
kathyp
Universal Bee
*******
Online Online

Gender: Female
Posts: 15193


Location: boring, oregon


« Reply #48 on: March 22, 2011, 01:12:40 PM »

i'm not sure what that has to do with our issues with isalmists.  it is true that UBL stated that one of his reasons for attacking US targets was our being in SA.  however, he continued long after we had left SA.  that kind of puts the lie to his reasons.

it's not much different than those who say it's the Palestinian issues that cause them to fight.  

why people blow themselves up is not the issue.  understanding the goal of the Islamic terrorists, is.  this movement has existed since the 1920's.  it did not start because of us.  the movement has a goal.  that goal is to create a united Muslim nation under sharia law.  they have attacked Muslims more than they have attacked westerners.

  socialism/communism/totalitarianism, however you define it, works well with radical Islam.
« Last Edit: March 22, 2011, 01:58:35 PM by kathyp » Logged

.....The greatest changes occur in their country without their cooperation. They are not even aware of precisely what has taken place. They suspect it; they have heard of the event by chance. More than that, they are unconcerned with the fortunes of their village, the safety of their streets, the fate of their church and its vestry. They think that such things have nothing to do with them, that they belong to a powerful stranger called “the government.” They enjoy these goods as tenants, without a sense of ownership, and never give a thought to how they might be improved.....

 Alexis de Tocqueville
thebalvenie
House Bee
**
Offline Offline

Gender: Male
Posts: 187


Location: Missoula, MT

Vote Ron Paul!!!!!!!!!!!!!


« Reply #49 on: March 22, 2011, 01:21:56 PM »

i'm not sure what that has to do with our issues with psalmists.  it is true that UBL stated that one of his reasons for attacking US targets was our being in SA.  however, he continued long after we had left SA.  that kind of puts the lie to his reasons.

it's not much different than those who say it's the Palestinian issues that cause them to fight.  

why people blow themselves up is not the issue.  understanding the goal of the Islamic terrorists, is.  this movement has existed since the 1920's.  it did not start because of us.  the movement has a goal.  that goal is to create a united Muslim nation under sharia law.  they have attacked Muslims more than they have attacked westerners.

  socialism/communism/totalitarianism, however you define it, works well with radical Islam.

source(s) 

i mean there's probably a 50/50 split on people like you and me....i agree with ron paul on blowback and think it's relevant....pape examines radical islams in his research and notes it has more to do with occupation than religion.....he's not alone in his research.



Pape follows up in 2010

Although no one wants to talk about it, 9/11 is still hurting America. That terrible day inflicted a wound of public fear that easily reopens with the smallest provocation, and it continues to bleed the United States of money, lives, and goodwill around the world. Indeed, America's response to its fear has, in turn, made Americans less safe and has inspired more threats and attacks.

In the decade since 9/11, the United States has conquered and occupied two large Muslim countries (Afghanistan and Iraq), compelled a huge Muslim army to root out a terrorist sanctuary (Pakistan), deployed thousands of Special Forces troops to numerous Muslim countries (Yemen, Somalia, Sudan, etc.), imprisoned hundreds of Muslims without recourse, and waged a massive war of ideas involving Muslim clerics to denounce violence and new institutions to bring Western norms to Muslim countries. Yet Americans still seem strangely mystified as to why some Muslims might be angry about this situation.

In a narrow sense, America is safer today than on 9/11. There has not been another attack on the same scale. U.S. defenses regarding immigration controls, airport security, and the disruption of potentially devastating domestic plots have all improved.

But in a broader sense, America has become perilously unsafe. Each month, there are more suicide terrorists trying to kill Americans and their allies in Afghanistan, Iraq, and other Muslim countries than in all the years before 2001 combined. From 1980 to 2003, there were 343 suicide attacks around the world, and at most 10 percent were anti-American inspired. Since 2004, there have been more than 2,000, over 91 percent against U.S. and allied forces in Afghanistan, Iraq, and other countries.

Yes, these attacks are overseas and mostly focused on military and diplomatic targets. So too, however, were the anti-American suicide attacks before 2001. It is important to remember that the 1995 and 1996 bombings of U.S. troops in Saudi Arabia, the 1998 bombings of the U.S. embassies in Kenya and Tanzania, and the 2000 bombing of the USS Cole in Yemen were the crucial dots that showed the threat was rising prior to 9/11. Today, such dots are occurring by the dozens every month. So why is nobody connecting them?

U.S. military policies have not stopped the rising wave of extremism in the Muslim world. The reason has not been lack of effort, or lack of bipartisan support for aggressive military policies, or lack of funding, or lack of genuine patriotism.

No. Something else is creating the mismatch between America's effort and the results.

For nearly a decade, Americans have been waging a long war against terrorism without much serious public debate about what is truly motivating terrorists to kill them. In the immediate aftermath of the 9/11 attacks, this was perfectly explicable -- the need to destroy al Qaeda's camps in Afghanistan was too urgent to await sober analyses of root causes.

But, the absence of public debate did not stop the great need to know or, perhaps better to say, to "understand" the events of that terrible day. In the years before 9/11, few Americans gave much thought to what drives terrorism -- a subject long relegated to the fringes of the media, government, and universities. And few were willing to wait for new studies, the collection of facts, and the dispassionate assessment of alternative causes. Terrorism produces fear and anger, and these emotions are not patient.

A simple narrative was readily available, and a powerful conventional wisdom began to exert its grip. Because the 9/11 hijackers were all Muslims, it was easy to presume that Islamic fundamentalism was the central motivating force driving the 19 hijackers to kill themselves in order to kill Americans. Within weeks after the 9/11 attacks, surveys of American attitudes show that this presumption was fast congealing into a hard reality in the public mind. Americans immediately wondered, "Why do they hate us?" and almost as immediately came to the conclusion that it was because of "who we are, not what we do." As President George W. Bush said in his first address to Congress after the 9/11 attacks: "They hate our freedoms: our freedom of religion, our freedom of speech, our freedom to vote and assemble and disagree with each other."

Thus was unleashed the "war on terror."

The narrative of Islamic fundamentalism did more than explain why America was attacked and encourage war against Iraq. It also pointed toward a simple, grand solution. If Islamic fundamentalism was driving the threat and if its roots grew from the culture of the Arab world, then America had a clear mission: To transform Arab societies -- with Western political institutions and social norms as the ultimate antidote to the virus of Islamic extremism.

This narrative had a powerful effect on support for the invasion of Iraq. Opinion polls show that for years before the invasion, more than 90 percent of the U.S. public believed that Saddam Hussein was harboring weapons of mass destruction (WMD). But this belief alone was not enough to push significant numbers to support war.

What really changed after 9/11 was the fear that anti-American Muslims desperately wanted to kill Americans and so any risk that such extremists would get weapons of mass destruction suddenly seemed too great. Although few Americans feared Islam before 9/11, by the spring of 2003, a near majority -- 49 percent -- strongly perceived that half or more of the world's 1.4 billion Muslims were deeply anti-American, and a similar fraction also believed that Islam itself promoted violence. No wonder there was little demand by congressional committees or the public at large for a detailed review of intelligence on Iraq's WMD prior to the invasion.

The goal of transforming Arab societies into true Western democracies had powerful effects on U.S. commitments to Afghanistan and Iraq. Constitutions had to be written; elections held; national armies built; entire economies restructured. Traditional barriers against women had to be torn down. Most important, all these changes also required domestic security, which meant maintaining approximately 150,000 U.S. and coalition ground troops in Iraq for many years and increasing the number of U.S. and Western troops in Afghanistan each year from 2003 on.

Put differently, adopting the goal of transforming Muslim countries is what created the long-term military occupation of Iraq and Afghanistan. Yes, the United States would almost surely have sought to create a stable order after toppling the regimes in these countries in any case. However, in both, America's plans quickly went far beyond merely changing leaders or ruling parties; only by creating Western-style democracies in the Muslim world could Americans defeat terrorism once and for all.

There's just one problem: We now know that this narrative is not true.

New research provides strong evidence that suicide terrorism such as that of 9/11 is particularly sensitive to foreign military occupation, and not Islamic fundamentalism or any ideology independent of this crucial circumstance. Although this pattern began to emerge in the 1980s and 1990s, a wealth of new data presents a powerful picture.

More than 95 percent of all suicide attacks are in response to foreign occupation, according to extensive research that we conducted at the University of Chicago's Project on Security and Terrorism, where we examined every one of the over 2,200 suicide attacks across the world from 1980 to the present day. As the United States has occupied Afghanistan and Iraq, which have a combined population of about 60 million, total suicide attacks worldwide have risen dramatically -- from about 300 from 1980 to 2003, to 1,800 from 2004 to 2009. Further, over 90 percent of suicide attacks worldwide are now anti-American. The vast majority of suicide terrorists hail from the local region threatened by foreign troops, which is why 90 percent of suicide attackers in Afghanistan are Afghans.

Israelis have their own narrative about terrorism, which holds that Arab fanatics seek to destroy the Jewish state because of what it is, not what it does. But since Israel withdrew its army from Lebanon in May 2000, there has not been a single Lebanese suicide attack. Similarly, since Israel withdrew from Gaza and large parts of the West Bank, Palestinian suicide attacks are down over 90 percent.

Some have disputed the causal link between foreign occupation and suicide terrorism, pointing out that some occupations by foreign powers have not resulted in suicide bombings -- for example, critics often cite post-World War II Japan and Germany. Our research provides sufficient evidence to address these criticisms by outlining the two factors that determine the likelihood of suicide terrorism being employed against an occupying force.

The first factor is social distance between the occupier and occupied. The wider the social distance, the more the occupied community may fear losing its way of life. Although other differences may matter, research shows that resistance to occupations is especially likely to escalate to suicide terrorism when there is a difference between the predominant religion of the occupier and the predominant religion of the occupied.

Religious difference matters not because some religions are predisposed to suicide attacks. Indeed, there are religious differences even in purely secular suicide attack campaigns, such as the LTTE (Hindu) against the Sinhalese (Buddhists).

Rather, religious difference matters because it enables terrorist leaders to claim that the occupier is motivated by a religious agenda that can scare both secular and religious members of a local community -- this is why Osama bin Laden never misses an opportunity to describe U.S. occupiers as "crusaders" motivated by a Christian agenda to convert Muslims, steal their resources, and change the local population's way of life.

The second factor is prior rebellion. Suicide terrorism is typically a strategy of last resort, often used by weak actors when other, non-suicidal methods of resistance to occupation fail. This is why we see suicide attack campaigns so often evolve from ordinary terrorist or guerrilla campaigns, as in the cases of Israel and Palestine, the Kurdish rebellion in Turkey, or the LTTE in Sri Lanka.

One of the most important findings from our research is that empowering local groups can reduce suicide terrorism. In Iraq, the surge's success was not the result of increased U.S. military control of Anbar province, but the empowerment of Sunni tribes, commonly called the Anbar Awakening, which enabled Iraqis to provide for their own security. On the other hand, taking power away from local groups can escalate suicide terrorism. In Afghanistan, U.S. and Western forces began to exert more control over the country's Pashtun regions starting in early 2006, and suicide attacks dramatically escalated from this point on.

The research suggests that U.S. interests would be better served through a policy of offshore balancing. Some scholars have taken issue with this approach, arguing that keeping boots on the ground in South Asia is essential for U.S. national security. Proponents of this strategy fail to realize how U.S. ground forces often inadvertently produce more anti-American terrorists than they kill. In 2000, before the occupations of Iraq and Afghanistan, there were 20 suicide attacks around the world, and only one (against the USS Cole) was directed against Americans. In the last 12 months, by comparison, 300 suicide attacks have occurred, and over 270 were anti-American. We simply must face the reality that, no matter how well-intentioned, the current war on terror is not serving U.S. interests.

The United States has been great in large part because it respects understanding and discussion of important ideas and concepts, and because it is free to change course. Intelligent decisions require putting all the facts before us and considering new approaches. The first step is recognizing that occupations in the Muslim world don't make Americans any safer -- in fact, they are at the heart of the problem.
Logged

"Tu ne cede malis sed contra audentior ito"
kathyp
Universal Bee
*******
Online Online

Gender: Female
Posts: 15193


Location: boring, oregon


« Reply #50 on: March 22, 2011, 02:26:46 PM »

and here is the problem with his research:  he fails to take into account what they have told us.  they have told us that their goal is to wipe out the infidels.  they have told us that they want a united Islamic state.  they have attacked their own governments to that end.  they have told us that they want to wipe out Israel.  they call us the great Satan and they call Israel the little Satan.  why?  because they intend for an Islamic world and we/they stand in the way.
he fails to take into account the religious aspect of this.  it's popular in the academic world to try to keep this as a secular problem.  "if we would just....they wouldn't hate us anymore". however, they have told us why they hate us and it has nothing to do with where we are and what we are doing.  under all the excuses is the fact that they do hate us for who we are.

another thing he doesn't do is identify what he means by "occupation".  as defined by UBL, it is not just troops, but American companies and other business interests.  should we just stay home and not engage in any international business?    

historically, we have ignore those we considered nuts even when they told us what they were going to do.  both Germany and Russia telegraphed their intentions and were ignored.   people were surprised when Russian systematically took over countries, and when Germany did the same.  Germany began rebuilding it's military and making it moves 15 or so years before they went to war. they began rebuilding their military in the 20's.  very few people took notice and those who did were ignored.  

your author seems to suggest that capitulation (Israel/Gaza) will reduce threat.  he seems not to understand how the "Palestinians" got where they are in the first place and why the Arab countries keep them there.  better for Israel that they had never given any land back and that they had made the Arabs clean up the Palestinian mess that they created.  instead, these so called Palestinians are used as pawns and an excuse for constant attacks on Israel.  

Quote
according to extensive research that we conducted at the University of Chicago's Project on Security and Terrorism,

considering the political bent of this university, i would consider any "research" out of there, suspect.  

reading opinions is good.  doing  your own research is better.
Logged

.....The greatest changes occur in their country without their cooperation. They are not even aware of precisely what has taken place. They suspect it; they have heard of the event by chance. More than that, they are unconcerned with the fortunes of their village, the safety of their streets, the fate of their church and its vestry. They think that such things have nothing to do with them, that they belong to a powerful stranger called “the government.” They enjoy these goods as tenants, without a sense of ownership, and never give a thought to how they might be improved.....

 Alexis de Tocqueville
thebalvenie
House Bee
**
Offline Offline

Gender: Male
Posts: 187


Location: Missoula, MT

Vote Ron Paul!!!!!!!!!!!!!


« Reply #51 on: March 22, 2011, 04:07:56 PM »

and here is the problem with his research:  he fails to take into account what they have told us.  they have told us that their goal is to wipe out the infidels.  they have told us that they want a united Islamic state.  they have attacked their own governments to that end.  they have told us that they want to wipe out Israel.  they call us the great Satan and they call Israel the little Satan.  why?  because they intend for an Islamic world and we/they stand in the way.
he fails to take into account the religious aspect of this.  it's popular in the academic world to try to keep this as a secular problem.  "if we would just....they wouldn't hate us anymore". however, they have told us why they hate us and it has nothing to do with where we are and what we are doing.  under all the excuses is the fact that they do hate us for who we are.

another thing he doesn't do is identify what he means by "occupation".  as defined by UBL, it is not just troops, but American companies and other business interests.  should we just stay home and not engage in any international business?    

historically, we have ignore those we considered nuts even when they told us what they were going to do.  both Germany and Russia telegraphed their intentions and were ignored.   people were surprised when Russian systematically took over countries, and when Germany did the same.  Germany began rebuilding it's military and making it moves 15 or so years before they went to war. they began rebuilding their military in the 20's.  very few people took notice and those who did were ignored.  

your author seems to suggest that capitulation (Israel/Gaza) will reduce threat.  he seems not to understand how the "Palestinians" got where they are in the first place and why the Arab countries keep them there.  better for Israel that they had never given any land back and that they had made the Arabs clean up the Palestinian mess that they created.  instead, these so called Palestinians are used as pawns and an excuse for constant attacks on Israel.  

Quote
according to extensive research that we conducted at the University of Chicago's Project on Security and Terrorism,

considering the political bent of this university, i would consider any "research" out of there, suspect.  

reading opinions is good.  doing  your own research is better.

okay i can buy into most of that and there's some valid and good points...but occupation in an economic and military sense still piss those people off.....how'd you feel if a country decided to move over here and started running things?  started businesses and all the while tanks are blowing buildings up....people are dying....it might make a few radical radical christian fundamentalists out of us....

anyways, we've been toiling in that area/region for years and i think it can't just be one or the other...it's most likely compounded by the religion issue AND THE occupation issue....

i believe we'd be better off minding our own business and taking care of our own house....
Logged

"Tu ne cede malis sed contra audentior ito"
Bee Happy
Super Bee
*****
Offline Offline

Gender: Male
Posts: 1656


Location: Between Panama city, Florida and Dothan Al.

that's me - setting a phoenix free


« Reply #52 on: March 22, 2011, 10:58:25 PM »

Um, yeah, if you say FACT in big bold caps followed by an assertive ":"  Everything that follows is irrefutably, automatically TRUE  (Even if it's just cause you really want it to be.)  rolleyes
I sincerely believe Islam is a death cult. among other things.
Logged

be happy and make others happy.
thebalvenie
House Bee
**
Offline Offline

Gender: Male
Posts: 187


Location: Missoula, MT

Vote Ron Paul!!!!!!!!!!!!!


« Reply #53 on: March 23, 2011, 09:08:35 AM »

Um, yeah, if you say FACT in big bold caps followed by an assertive ":"  Everything that follows is irrefutably, automatically TRUE  (Even if it's just cause you really want it to be.)  rolleyes
I sincerely believe Islam is a death cult. among other things.

um we all know it's a death cult
why they're a death cult isn't necessarily written in the koran
their violence is almost always directly correlated with our occupation in the country....

ftr, those weren't my bold caps "FACTS" 
those facts/data were compiled by pape and others....sorry if they came up with the answer you don't want to hear Wink
Logged

"Tu ne cede malis sed contra audentior ito"
Bee Happy
Super Bee
*****
Offline Offline

Gender: Male
Posts: 1656


Location: Between Panama city, Florida and Dothan Al.

that's me - setting a phoenix free


« Reply #54 on: March 23, 2011, 09:19:50 AM »

no I figured the "FACT:" list was probably a quote. I vaguely remember martyrdom being specifically in the koran (I couldn't possibly tell you which verse, but martyrdom while killing infidels is like pork roast to a bad dog.)
Yeah I suppose our presence somewhere does increase their bloodlust - like all those americans who were present in the twin towers. (please don't say it was an inside job - not because I couldn't refute it - I could refute the h377 out of it - I just got sick of banging my head over it a long time ago.)
Logged

be happy and make others happy.
thebalvenie
House Bee
**
Offline Offline

Gender: Male
Posts: 187


Location: Missoula, MT

Vote Ron Paul!!!!!!!!!!!!!


« Reply #55 on: March 23, 2011, 09:42:11 AM »

i'm not a truther
i believe terrorists attacked the twin towers to send a message that we have been in their land too long and it's time to get out

i think it has little to do with religion

much like george w hid behind christianity as a front to cover his lies and wars

Logged

"Tu ne cede malis sed contra audentior ito"
kathyp
Universal Bee
*******
Online Online

Gender: Female
Posts: 15193


Location: boring, oregon


« Reply #56 on: March 23, 2011, 10:08:08 AM »

you are parroting the ron paul BS.  if we were only minding our own business, they wouldn't hate us.  that's a major load of crap.

here is the UBL letter with his reasons for attack.  yes there are ramblings about occupation, but read it all and carefully.  you'll find in the end it has nothing to do with occupation.

it has everything to do with religion.  that's the basis for,and excuse for, their actions.

Quote
much like george w hid behind christianity as a front to cover his lies and wars

first show me where his beliefs and his war intersected.  second show me the lies.  if you are going to make statements like that, you'd better have answers.
Logged

.....The greatest changes occur in their country without their cooperation. They are not even aware of precisely what has taken place. They suspect it; they have heard of the event by chance. More than that, they are unconcerned with the fortunes of their village, the safety of their streets, the fate of their church and its vestry. They think that such things have nothing to do with them, that they belong to a powerful stranger called “the government.” They enjoy these goods as tenants, without a sense of ownership, and never give a thought to how they might be improved.....

 Alexis de Tocqueville
thebalvenie
House Bee
**
Offline Offline

Gender: Male
Posts: 187


Location: Missoula, MT

Vote Ron Paul!!!!!!!!!!!!!


« Reply #57 on: March 23, 2011, 10:20:42 AM »

you are parroting the ron paul BS.  if we were only minding our own business, they wouldn't hate us.  that's a major load of crap.

here is the UBL letter with his reasons for attack.  yes there are ramblings about occupation, but read it all and carefully.  you'll find in the end it has nothing to do with occupation.

it has everything to do with religion.  that's the basis for,and excuse for, their actions.

Quote
much like george w hid behind christianity as a front to cover his lies and wars


first show me where his beliefs and his war intersected.  second show me the lies.  if you are going to make statements like that, you'd better have answers.



you can stand up for bush that's fine....we can polish a turd all day long...and it's still a turd. 

i've provided a link with a thoughtful and provocative essay titled "How Bush Sacked Narnia"  http://www.sendspace.com/file/nu2pn3

read it or not

and you keep saying ron paul's foreign policy is bs....how do YOU (or myself) for that matter know it will work or won't work?  WE DON'T...i know this...the current military interventions have caused great damage abroad and at home...with our troops' blood and those that are still alive, troops or not, are paying for these a$$holes' political and global policies...um so no...i don't think what we've been doing for 70 years or even the last 30 years is working...forgive me for wanting to try a new course of action

america is broken from top to bottom and bottom to top

Logged

"Tu ne cede malis sed contra audentior ito"
thebalvenie
House Bee
**
Offline Offline

Gender: Male
Posts: 187


Location: Missoula, MT

Vote Ron Paul!!!!!!!!!!!!!


« Reply #58 on: March 23, 2011, 10:23:57 AM »

a bush lie:

"Our intelligence sources tell us that he (Saddam) has attempted to purchase high-strength aluminum tubes suitable for nuclear weapons production."  -state of the union in 2003

the IAEA as well as dozens of other leading scientists declared those tubes were unsuitable for nuclear weapons production and their reports were a couple months before the war in iraq.
Logged

"Tu ne cede malis sed contra audentior ito"
thebalvenie
House Bee
**
Offline Offline

Gender: Male
Posts: 187


Location: Missoula, MT

Vote Ron Paul!!!!!!!!!!!!!


« Reply #59 on: March 23, 2011, 10:26:01 AM »

"War is the means by which Americans learn geography." Ambrose Bierce
Logged

"Tu ne cede malis sed contra audentior ito"
Pages: 1 2 [3] 4 5   Go Up
  Print  
 
Jump to:  

Beemaster's Beekeeping Ring
Previous | Home | Join | Random | Next
Powered by MySQL Powered by PHP Powered by SMF 1.1.20 | SMF © 2013, Simple Machines | Sitemap Valid XHTML 1.0! Valid CSS!
Page created in 2.394 seconds with 21 queries.

Google visited last this page September 07, 2014, 04:22:49 AM
anything