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Author Topic: Most passive to most aggressive species of bee  (Read 5174 times)
showme714
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« on: March 03, 2011, 07:05:46 PM »

My question is how would you experienced beeks list species of bees from most passive to most aggressive?
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Bee-Bop
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« Reply #1 on: March 03, 2011, 08:16:19 PM »

You will learn that bees have good days and bad days, just like humans.

The weather, hive disruptions, careless actions, etc. can make your " friendly " hive into some mean stingers " !

Bee-Bop
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showme714
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« Reply #2 on: March 03, 2011, 08:20:12 PM »

You will learn that bees have good days and bad days, just like humans.

The weather, hive disruptions, careless actions, etc. can make your " friendly " hive into some mean stingers " !

Bee-Bop

I have read where it was suggested to re-queen the hive to change the disposition of the colony. So there is really no foundation to that course of action then?
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Michael Bush
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« Reply #3 on: March 03, 2011, 10:50:10 PM »

>My question is how would you experienced beeks list species of bees from most passive to most aggressive?

By Taxonomy, there are only three species of honeybees, Florea, Cerana and Mellifera.  In North America, there is only one species of Honeybee, Mellifera.

By common usage the term is usually "race" but that is also not the correct Taxonomological term.  What beekeepers call "race" is actually just "variety" to the Taxonimists.  "Strains" might be a good term.

As far as characteristics, they very more from colony to colony than from "race" to "race".  All have been bred by beekeepers to be gentle and all of them tend to be.

http://www.bushfarms.com/beesraces.htm
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Finski
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« Reply #4 on: March 04, 2011, 01:14:59 AM »

.
What do you do with that classification? Which is harder guy, Spiderman or Ironman?

What I have met, crossings are bad.  I do not say  spider & iron.....
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showme714
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« Reply #5 on: March 04, 2011, 01:16:14 AM »

>My question is how would you experienced beeks list species of bees from most passive to most aggressive?

By Taxonomy, there are only three species of honeybees, Florea, Cerana and Mellifera.  In North America, there is only one species of Honeybee, Mellifera.

By common usage the term is usually "race" but that is also not the correct Taxonomological term.  What beekeepers call "race" is actually just "variety" to the Taxonimists.  "Strains" might be a good term.

As far as characteristics, they very more from colony to colony than from "race" to "race".  All have been bred by beekeepers to be gentle and all of them tend to be.



That was an awesome and informative page you sent me to on your website Michael. Thanks.
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BjornBee
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« Reply #6 on: March 04, 2011, 06:47:35 AM »

showme,

Here is a link you may find helpful.

http://www.nsqba.org/typesofhoneybees.html

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Finski
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« Reply #7 on: March 04, 2011, 08:47:26 AM »

showme,

Here is a link you may find helpful.

http://www.nsqba.org/typesofhoneybees.html





that is someone's opion or experience.

Italian winter well even on Polar Circle.
You may get get bad stringers from evefy bee races. Like Michael says, it depends on breeding.

Some years ago I succeed to breed a killer Italian. It was really dangerous to me and to outsiders.



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greenbtree
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« Reply #8 on: March 04, 2011, 09:05:07 AM »

"killer Italian"  They wear sunglasses at night, and make you an offer you can't refuse... grin

JC
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BjornBee
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« Reply #9 on: March 04, 2011, 09:14:49 AM »

showme,

Here is a link you may find helpful.

http://www.nsqba.org/typesofhoneybees.html





that is someones opion or experience.

Italian winter well even on Polar Circle.
You may get get bad stringers from every bee races. Like Michael says, it depends on breeding.

Some years ago I succeed to breed a killer Italian. It was really dangerous to me and to outsiders.






No crap finski.

Tell me what listing of bee characteristics is not an opinion or from a person's experience.

So why the comment that this listing is anything different than any other listing? Or any different than your opinion you throw around on this forum.

I personally have overwintered every type bee I could buy. If you actually read the comments about this listing of another person's opinion you would see that it also mentions that this listing is for comparison of bees that are not treated. Why compare one strain to another when it means little coming from a person like you who treats anyways.

I have for many years, had yards of Italians, Russians, carni as well as other strains all go through winter without treatments. And the strain that ALWAYS has the highest winter kill is Italians. For those that are not treating or are trying not to use traditional treatments, my "opinion" and best advice, is to at least start with the strain that gives you the best chances of success. And regardless of what you do at the polar circle, that is my opinion and advice to others.

The list I mentioned does little for those that will treat, and do everything for their bees. For those that want something different than your cookie cutter approach of treating bees, the list may be useful.

So it means little to dismiss my opinion in some denigrating manner of stating "This is just someones opinion" then follow that up with your own experiences, like you have all the answers and everyone else are morons.

Who cares what you do in the polar circle? You treat, feed, and of course can get many hives through winter. The link I gave comes from another angle you obviously do not follow, and do not understand. It clearly states all this if you took the time to read it.

Bashing another person contributions because they come to a forum and try to help, claiming other information in an "opinion". Geesh.....what do you think forums are all about? The forum is nothing but other people's opinions. Whether a person makes  a list or not.

I always find it ironic when you suggest that you know because you keep bees near the polar circle, yet so easily dismiss other people's opinions who are giving advice to the beekeeper that lives right down the road, in the same climate, and same conditions. Perhaps I should constantly remind folks that keeping bees where they are, and what you do where you are, are very different than most beekeepers, making your comments nothing more than "opinion" at best.  rolleyes

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Finski
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« Reply #10 on: March 04, 2011, 11:56:13 AM »


I have only kept German Black. Caucasian, Carniolan, Italian, Buckfast and Elgon.
Of course my experience are not so valuable as your.
i have kept Italians longest,   40 years. They are best to my style.

Italians have no problems with wintering when its origin is from north.




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showme714
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« Reply #11 on: March 04, 2011, 03:40:34 PM »

showme,

Here is a link you may find helpful.

http://www.nsqba.org/typesofhoneybees.html




Thanks BjornBee. I can relate to the scale of rating because I am a numbers guy. Since I have never kept bees before I am anxious and nervous because I don't like to fail at anything. My biggest concern is not being stung as I have all the necessary protective equipment but absconding, mites and overwintering. I'm sure my bees will come to mean to me as much as my dog who I've had from a puppy and is now almost 16 years old. I don't want anything to happen to him and do my best to take good care of him. That is my plan for the bees as well.

I do like a challenge. The bees I'm waiting for are Italians. They don't score well on this chart for mite resistance and overwintering so there is my challenge. Winters aren't usually too bad in Metro Atlanta but I will do my best to succeed with my first package. I expect success, especially now that I have found this forum. I'm sure it will not take too long before I have my own opinions based on my experiences.
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BjornBee
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« Reply #12 on: March 04, 2011, 04:14:58 PM »

Thank you showme714.

I think the best part of that page is the last couple paragraphs, which puts it all in to perspective. I'm glad you understood.  Wink
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Finski
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« Reply #13 on: March 04, 2011, 04:24:50 PM »


I always find it ironic when you suggest that you know because you keep bees near the polar circle,

I do not live near Polar Circle. Just 60 latitude. I look from my phone navigator. It is 717,6 km to Polar Circle.
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Brian D. Bray
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« Reply #14 on: March 04, 2011, 06:04:24 PM »


I have only kept German Black. Caucasian, Carniolan, Italian, Buckfast and Elgon.
Of course my experience are not so valuable as your.
i have kept Italians longest,   40 years. They are best to my style.

Italians have no problems with wintering when its origin is from north.


Translated that means acclimated bees.

One of the problems we have here in the US is buying bees from the southern states and expecting them to thrive in the northern states. 

That's the equivalent of buying bees in Rome and expecting them to thrive and survive in Oslo.  The mean temps, foraging season, hibernation period, and even the fauna are no the same. 

It takes a few years for the bees to completely adapt to a climate change like that.
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bud1
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« Reply #15 on: March 04, 2011, 06:23:45 PM »

bjorn, I think you need to listen to Finski, he is a verry knolegable person, not just a try to be. i think you wrote a good description of your own attitude as i see it.
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« Reply #16 on: March 04, 2011, 07:00:21 PM »

bjorn, I think you need to listen to Finski, he is a verry knolegable person, not just a try to be. i think you wrote a good description of your own attitude as i see it.

Yeah, yeah...take your jab.

Finski dismisses my experiences by claiming it's just an opinion, then you chime in to state as a third party figure, that I should listen to Finski by stating your own opinion. I see the irony.  Wink Party two dismisses party one as an opinion. Party three then suggests his opinion by stating party one should listen to party two.  grin

Did I get that right?

That's what we need....more people suggesting to others as to who another should and not listen too. Oh,...the wonders of a forum.  rolleyes

Have another one bud!  grin
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CapnChkn
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« Reply #17 on: March 04, 2011, 08:47:38 PM »

I actually have never seen anything but Italians and derivatives.  I can tell you those bees are as gentle as you could want, I would sit right next to the entrance and watch them come and go for hours.  If I'm in the flight path, they usually would go around, but I would have one or two crash headlong into me from sometimes 30 feet away.  I had it happen so much, I got to thinking it was some kind of defensive behavior when I did get stung.

One thing I've noticed here, are bees with mostly black on the tips of the abdomen with successively thicker yellow bands going toward the thorax.  These bees are a few millimeters shorter than the straight banded bees.

I've quit reading Finski's posts because he trolls.  He has continuously ignored anything I've stated to degrade everything I said about one subject which he seems to think he's the only world authority on, insulation.  Anything he writes seems to be cobbled from conjecture and hearsay, peppered with a glaze of science to give it credibility.  It doesn't matter what he says about his bees, because he uses heat.
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« Reply #18 on: March 04, 2011, 08:48:56 PM »

showme,

Here is a link you may find helpful.

http://www.nsqba.org/typesofhoneybees.html




Thanks BjornBee. I can relate to the scale of rating because I am a numbers guy. Since I have never kept bees before I am anxious and nervous because I don't like to fail at anything. My biggest concern is not being stung as I have all the necessary protective equipment but absconding, mites and overwintering. I'm sure my bees will come to mean to me as much as my dog who I've had from a puppy and is now almost 16 years old. I don't want anything to happen to him and do my best to take good care of him. That is my plan for the bees as well.

I do like a challenge. The bees I'm waiting for are Italians. They don't score well on this chart for mite resistance and overwintering so there is my challenge. Winters aren't usually too bad in Metro Atlanta but I will do my best to succeed with my first package. I expect success, especially now that I have found this forum. I'm sure it will not take too long before I have my own opinions based on my experiences.


Bjorn I agree. Good link. Thanks
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backyard warrior
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« Reply #19 on: March 04, 2011, 09:14:55 PM »

Id have to say that I like the carnies better than the italians myself but again thats just my opinion althought my italians where the only ones robbing my bee yard in a dearth  Wink
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organicfarmer
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« Reply #20 on: March 04, 2011, 09:40:02 PM »

i personnally am looking for a more aggressive strain as i hope for a correlation to their aggressiveness toward pests, energy at gathering nectar and resources (go getters). Of course i have no science to show just that.
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Countryboy
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« Reply #21 on: March 04, 2011, 10:39:12 PM »

You may want to look into the history of the Africanized Honey Bee that was developed in South America.

It has the characteristics you say that you are looking for.  (They are also bad about swarming, can't handle winter, and are downright miserable to work with - but they are go-getters.)
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rdy-b
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« Reply #22 on: March 04, 2011, 10:49:48 PM »


I have only kept German Black. Caucasian, Carniolan, Italian, Buckfast and Elgon.
Of course my experience are not so valuable as your.
i have kept Italians longest,   40 years. They are best to my style.

Italians have no problems with wintering when its origin is from north.


I would like to hear about the ELGON bee and your opinon of them -very interested if you have the time-RDY-B

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« Reply #23 on: March 05, 2011, 12:43:56 AM »

.
It is same to me what you do there.
You have your own systems from Florida to Alaska and they will be never changed.

Insulation skills -- I have seen them in forum.
« Last Edit: March 05, 2011, 12:55:23 AM by Finski » Logged

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« Reply #24 on: March 05, 2011, 01:45:07 AM »

 I have heard that the ELGON bee is varoa resistant and it achieves this
from a ODOR that it emits and- the Odor is similar to CAT PEE is this true--RDY-B
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Finski
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« Reply #25 on: March 05, 2011, 04:02:28 AM »

I know one professional beekeeper who has Elgons. It is Buckfast type artificial race. Elgon word is mountain of Kenia and African A. monticola blood has used in breeding. Olsson use small cell size in brood boxes.
http://www.elgon.se/story3/sven-olof_ohlsson02.htm

I kept a few years Elgon bees but the crossings with Italians become quite furious gang. I must give up that creature. When I treated varroa, hives has as much mites as Italians.

Olsson lives on area where is no other beekeepers. It is easy to keep strain pure.

An elgon bee on entrance

« Last Edit: March 05, 2011, 04:13:09 AM by Finski » Logged

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Finski
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« Reply #26 on: March 05, 2011, 04:14:00 AM »

I have heard that the ELGON bee is varoa resistant and it achieves this
from a ODOR that it emits and- the Odor is similar to CAT PEE is this true--RDY-B

I did not notice that
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« Reply #27 on: March 05, 2011, 04:25:31 AM »

One thing I've noticed here, are bees with mostly black on the tips of the abdomen with successively thicker yellow bands going toward the thorax.  These bees are a few millimeters shorter than the straight banded bees.

i certainly can't evaluate things from a distance, but this kind of observation (strange bees with black tips) are often not a separate race or variety...these are generally robbers that have had the yellow hairs rubbed off of the abdomen, exposing the black exoskeleton.  a few milimeters is a lot of difference in size for a bee.  workers are 12mm or so long, "a few" (more than "a couple", less than "several"...perhaps 3mm?) is about 25% smaller.  these robbers could be your bees returning from their pillage, or they could be robbing your hive.

deknow
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« Reply #28 on: March 08, 2011, 02:53:52 AM »

Deknow, I'm familiar with the hair pulling.  These bees are far too numerous to be veteran robbers.  They all have the same pattern, and I didn't see them from a distance, as I was saying I would sit next to the entrance and watch the bees for hours.  They are black tipped, about 1/3 the length of the abdomen, with the second third having a thin band of yellow, a thicker band, and the thickest with a hair thin line of black in the last third.

I would say about 2 mm shorter than the regular Italians and thinner bodies.  I thought they might be robbers as well, and there were plenty of fights, but there were so many of them I figured they were different genetics coming out.  The trees around here have plenty of rotten branches and trunks, so I can only suppose they came from there or the neighbor's hives across the road.
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« Reply #29 on: March 08, 2011, 03:26:39 AM »

Last year I bought 2 Elgon hives , a kolega bought 8 hives.

They were very gentle and very productive , a true delight to work with and new ideal to try to copy.

I suppose this is due to the competent bi keeper I bought them from , I think I´ll try and buy some more this spring  grin

mvh edward  tongue
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