Need Bees Removed?
International
Beekeeping Forums
August 01, 2014, 06:51:03 PM *
Welcome, Guest. Please login or register.
Did you miss your activation email?

Login with username, password and session length
News: 24/7 Ventrilo Voice chat -click for instructions and free software here
 
   Home   Help Search Calendar bee removal Login Register Chat  

Pages: 1 2 [All]   Go Down
  Print  
Author Topic: when to add second hive body  (Read 4858 times)
stonecroppefarm
New Bee
*
Offline Offline

Posts: 24

Location: Tiverton, RI


« on: March 01, 2011, 11:54:37 PM »

I am a new beek and expect two nucs to appear end of April. I plan to place each in a deep super to start. Then I plan to add a second deep super to each. When do I add this? Will I have to add another super (medium) the first year?
Logged
indypartridge
Queen Bee
****
Offline Offline

Posts: 1097


Location: Brown County, IN


« Reply #1 on: March 02, 2011, 06:23:21 AM »

Add the second when they have drawn comb on 8 of 10 frames in the first.

Quote
Will I have to add another super (medium) the first year?
Depends on the bees, the weather, the nectar flow, etc. Have it ready, add it if/when they get the 2nd deep drawn out.
Logged
Acebird
Field Bee
***
Offline Offline

Gender: Male
Posts: 955


Location: Utica, NY

Just getting started


« Reply #2 on: March 02, 2011, 09:23:30 AM »

Quote
Will I have to add another super (medium) the first year?

I would say you have a weak colony if you didn't get two medium supers on before the end of the season.  But what do I know.
Logged

Never thought I would do it!
Hemlock
Field Bee
***
Offline Offline

Gender: Male
Posts: 631


Location: central, Virginia


« Reply #3 on: March 02, 2011, 11:23:36 AM »

I put my second Deep box on after the bees drew out 6 of the 10 frames in their first Deep box.   15 day later there were 6 frames of brood in the bottom Deep & 2 frames of brood in the upper Deep; with many more drawn out.  So i guess it worked well.
Logged
Finski
Galactic Bee
******
Offline Offline

Gender: Male
Posts: 3928

Location: Finland


« Reply #4 on: March 02, 2011, 12:17:32 PM »

.
I  put second box under brood box that heat of brood  does not escape to the empty box.

Bees are able to occupye combs downwards as they do in nature.
Logged

.
Language barrier NOT included
Acebird
Field Bee
***
Offline Offline

Gender: Male
Posts: 955


Location: Utica, NY

Just getting started


« Reply #5 on: March 02, 2011, 02:27:17 PM »

.
I  put second box under brood box that heat of brood  does not escape to the empty box.

Bees are able to occupye combs downwards as they do in nature.

When you lift up the brood box what keeps the bees from tearing out after you from the open bottom?
Logged

Never thought I would do it!
Finski
Galactic Bee
******
Offline Offline

Gender: Male
Posts: 3928

Location: Finland


« Reply #6 on: March 02, 2011, 02:50:22 PM »

.
I don't understand what you mean?
Logged

.
Language barrier NOT included
Acebird
Field Bee
***
Offline Offline

Gender: Male
Posts: 955


Location: Utica, NY

Just getting started


« Reply #7 on: March 02, 2011, 03:28:32 PM »

Quote
I don't understand what you mean?

Well, I am sure they won't tare out after you but is there any concern with the bottom of the box being open that it would agitate the bees while you have the box in your hand.  I would also assume you have to put the brood box down on something flat so you can get the empty box in position and then place the brood box on top of that.
Logged

Never thought I would do it!
Finski
Galactic Bee
******
Offline Offline

Gender: Male
Posts: 3928

Location: Finland


« Reply #8 on: March 02, 2011, 03:35:05 PM »

.
I do not understand that either .....
I lifth the brood box off from bottom board, then I put on bottom board the new box an over it the brood box.  .. What is so special in that?

Joke or not, but a bad one.
Logged

.
Language barrier NOT included
kathyp
Universal Bee
*******
Offline Offline

Gender: Female
Posts: 15032


Location: boring, oregon


« Reply #9 on: March 02, 2011, 03:59:35 PM »

Quote
When you lift up the brood box what keeps the bees from tearing out after you from the open bottom?

why would they be more apt to do it from the bottom than they are from the top?  i set my box on an empty box, lid, or extra bottom board.  then put the new box on bottom board and put old box on top.  if you do it with the lid still on, you actually have fewer bees flying than taking the top off and putting on a new box.
Logged

.....The greatest changes occur in their country without their cooperation. They are not even aware of precisely what has taken place. They suspect it; they have heard of the event by chance. More than that, they are unconcerned with the fortunes of their village, the safety of their streets, the fate of their church and its vestry. They think that such things have nothing to do with them, that they belong to a powerful stranger called “the government.” They enjoy these goods as tenants, without a sense of ownership, and never give a thought to how they might be improved.....

 Alexis de Tocqueville
Acebird
Field Bee
***
Offline Offline

Gender: Male
Posts: 955


Location: Utica, NY

Just getting started


« Reply #10 on: March 02, 2011, 04:20:43 PM »

Quote
why would they be more apt to do it from the bottom than they are from the top?

My thought was that you are picking the whole hive up, possible changing orientation somewhat, setting it down and then picking it up again and setting it down.  I have never done it before so I like to know what I am getting into before I try something.  Glad to hear it is not a big deal.

Can I assume that splitting a hive would be similar?  Just split the two boxes and then decide the arrangement of the frames for both boxes?
Logged

Never thought I would do it!
Finski
Galactic Bee
******
Offline Offline

Gender: Male
Posts: 3928

Location: Finland


« Reply #11 on: March 02, 2011, 04:27:24 PM »

.
Much of beekeeping is lifting and puting down boxes and changing their places.

It is better that you go to some more experinced and see how it happens.
Logged

.
Language barrier NOT included
buzzbee
Ken
Administrator
Galactic Bee
*******
Offline Offline

Gender: Male
Posts: 5425


Location: North Central PA


WWW
« Reply #12 on: March 02, 2011, 05:47:43 PM »

Not trying to change the subject,this topic reminds me of a strange commercial:
I Lift Things Up and Put Them Down


But bottom supering is nothing new.
Logged
hardwood
Galactic Bee
******
Offline Offline

Gender: Male
Posts: 3482


Location: Osteen, Fl (just south of Daytona)

Alysian Apiaries youtube.com/MrBeedude


« Reply #13 on: March 02, 2011, 09:33:47 PM »

Just snatch off the box and stand it on it's end (handle). I did it 50 times or so just today.

Scott
Logged

"In the first place, we should insist that if the immigrant who comes here in good faith becomes an American and assimilates himself to us, he shall be treated on an exact equality with everyone else, for it is an outrage to discriminate against any such man because of creed, or birthplace, or origin. But this is predicated upon the person's becoming in every facet an American, and nothing but an American...There can be no divided allegiance here. Any man who says he is an American, but something else also, isn't an American at all. We have room for but one flag, the American flag...We have room for but one language here, and that is the English language...And we have room for but one sole loyalty and that is a loyalty to the American people."

Theodore Roosevelt 1907
Michael Bush
Universal Bee
*******
Offline Offline

Gender: Male
Posts: 13588


Location: Nehawka, NE


WWW
« Reply #14 on: March 03, 2011, 12:23:57 AM »

>When you lift up the brood box what keeps the bees from tearing out after you from the open bottom?

The top is wide open.  Why would they react more from the bottom being gone?  If they are "tearing out after you" they would have done that when you took the top off and you probably either need to be more gentle or get a new queen...

>Can I assume that splitting a hive would be similar?  Just split the two boxes and then decide the arrangement of the frames for both boxes?

There are a lot of ways to go about it.  With small boxes, like eight frame mediums, I just do it by the box.  Two bottom boards and "deal" the boxes.
Logged

Michael Bush
My website:  bushfarms.com/bees.htm
My book:  ThePracticalBeekeeper.com
-------------------
"Everything works if you let it."--Rick Nielsen
Acebird
Field Bee
***
Offline Offline

Gender: Male
Posts: 955


Location: Utica, NY

Just getting started


« Reply #15 on: March 03, 2011, 08:51:02 AM »

Quote
they would have done that when you took the top off


Kathy already told me not to take the top off and I am going to listen.  grin

Any of you older types interested in a purpose built winch that you could wheel up to a hive and crank up boxes similar to a boat winch?  I am thinking about whipping one up to save my old back.  I keep hearing that you should super from the bottom so is three boxes the most you should have to lift.  Shoot for a 300 pound capacity?
Logged

Never thought I would do it!
Finski
Galactic Bee
******
Offline Offline

Gender: Male
Posts: 3928

Location: Finland


« Reply #16 on: March 03, 2011, 08:55:07 AM »

.
That lifter would be an innovation in beekeeping. Save the old backs!
Logged

.
Language barrier NOT included
tillie
Super Bee
*****
Offline Offline

Gender: Female
Posts: 1740


Location: Atlanta, GA

Bee in N Georgia on a Blackberry flower


WWW
« Reply #17 on: March 03, 2011, 09:05:59 AM »

Acebird,

If you haven't done an inspection before there are videos and slideshows on the Internet (YouTube, my blog, other websites devoted to beekeeping) that will show you how it's done.  I think Brushy Mountain has a whole series of helpful videos.

Sounds like you are trying to visualize something in your head that you could see a movie or slideshow about and save yourself the energy of trying to make it up.

Linda T in Atlanta
Logged

http://beekeeperlinda.blogspot.com
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
"You never can tell with bees" - Winnie the Pooh


Click for Atlanta, Georgia Forecast" border="0" height="60" width="468
Acebird
Field Bee
***
Offline Offline

Gender: Male
Posts: 955


Location: Utica, NY

Just getting started


« Reply #18 on: March 03, 2011, 12:22:59 PM »

Ah thanks Linda.  Excellent, excellent slide shows.

So you slide the boxes back into position.  I could envision sheering a whole row of bees off when you get to the other side.
Logged

Never thought I would do it!
Finski
Galactic Bee
******
Offline Offline

Gender: Male
Posts: 3928

Location: Finland


« Reply #19 on: March 03, 2011, 02:17:58 PM »



So you slide the boxes back into position. 

i have seen how many slide the box on its site it crushes bees quite much. Bees become mad with that system.

You should smoke  bees away ja then drop the box on site. Don't ask how high.
5 mm is an answer.

This is first time when some one ask how to lift a hive box.
Logged

.
Language barrier NOT included
Acebird
Field Bee
***
Offline Offline

Gender: Male
Posts: 955


Location: Utica, NY

Just getting started


« Reply #20 on: March 03, 2011, 02:49:43 PM »

Quote
i have seen how many slide the box on its site it crushes bees quite much. Bees become mad with that system.


You got to love beekeeping.  It is the only thing that I have tried where you don't have to know a fool thing and you can end up doing it right by somebodies method. grin

So Finski, 5mm about 3/16 inch.  Bringing it down that close by hand might be a trick without bumping the corners.  I think I'm liking my winch idea.  I'll let you know how I make out with that.
Logged

Never thought I would do it!
Finski
Galactic Bee
******
Offline Offline

Gender: Male
Posts: 3928

Location: Finland


« Reply #21 on: March 03, 2011, 03:10:01 PM »

.
Inch has been derived from thump. It is easier to measure the distance of boxes with thump/inch. But if it is difficult, try foot. 

 5mm is 1/60 foot.
Logged

.
Language barrier NOT included
tillie
Super Bee
*****
Offline Offline

Gender: Female
Posts: 1740


Location: Atlanta, GA

Bee in N Georgia on a Blackberry flower


WWW
« Reply #22 on: March 03, 2011, 08:32:17 PM »

I'm not sure what you mean "slide on its side."  I slide the box slowly onto the box beneath. 

Like a bulldozer, the bees are gently pushed out of the way and I don't kill bees. 

If I simply set the box back into position, I'm sure to kill bees who are unknowingly perched on the side of the box. 

The secret for me in all bee manipulation is to respect the bees and their home, so I move very slowly and slide the box slowly in order to allow them time to get out of the way.  It works great and I don't end up feeling bad about killing bees because I don't kill bees this way.

But I also use very little smoke - one puff at the entry is about all I do with any hive inspection, so I wouldn't want to smoke them just to get them out of the way so it would be more convenient for me to "drop a box onto the hive."

Linda T in Atlanta
Logged

http://beekeeperlinda.blogspot.com
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
"You never can tell with bees" - Winnie the Pooh


Click for Atlanta, Georgia Forecast" border="0" height="60" width="468
Finski
Galactic Bee
******
Offline Offline

Gender: Male
Posts: 3928

Location: Finland


« Reply #23 on: March 03, 2011, 10:55:15 PM »

.
Lesson # 1

Take box up
put box down

with respect and gently 

with some hives included: and then RUN !
Logged

.
Language barrier NOT included
Acebird
Field Bee
***
Offline Offline

Gender: Male
Posts: 955


Location: Utica, NY

Just getting started


« Reply #24 on: March 04, 2011, 08:56:26 AM »

Quote
Like a bulldozer, the bees are gently pushed out of the way and I don't kill bees. 


Linda, what happens when you get to where the bottom side wall meets the top side wall?  Do you do any angling or do the bees just get out of the way at that shear point?
Logged

Never thought I would do it!
tillie
Super Bee
*****
Offline Offline

Gender: Female
Posts: 1740


Location: Atlanta, GA

Bee in N Georgia on a Blackberry flower


WWW
« Reply #25 on: March 04, 2011, 02:30:38 PM »

Like I said, the bees are gently pushed ahead of the box.  Since no bees were between the sliding box and the box beneath there's no way that they are killed. Since you don't have bees, maybe it isn't clear to you but bees can turn a corner and walk easily down the front of the box. They don't just stop when they come to an edge cool
Logged

http://beekeeperlinda.blogspot.com
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
"You never can tell with bees" - Winnie the Pooh


Click for Atlanta, Georgia Forecast" border="0" height="60" width="468
Acebird
Field Bee
***
Offline Offline

Gender: Male
Posts: 955


Location: Utica, NY

Just getting started


« Reply #26 on: March 04, 2011, 03:50:27 PM »

Quote
Since you don't have bees, maybe it isn't clear to you but bees can turn a corner and walk easily down the front of the box.

 huh huh I have had bees for two seasons now but have never taken a whole box off and put it back on.  For the very last inch of the box position there is a shear point between the top and bottom box.  Apparently the bees get out of the way before they are cut in half.
Logged

Never thought I would do it!
Hemlock
Field Bee
***
Offline Offline

Gender: Male
Posts: 631


Location: central, Virginia


« Reply #27 on: March 04, 2011, 04:44:16 PM »

[huh huh I have had bees for two seasons now but have never taken a whole box off and put it back on.

Are you saying that you have boxes on your hives you have never inspected or looked into?

What kind of setup do you have?  Double Deeps; Mediums; Nucs; TBH; a Skep?
Logged
Acebird
Field Bee
***
Offline Offline

Gender: Male
Posts: 955


Location: Utica, NY

Just getting started


« Reply #28 on: March 04, 2011, 06:16:27 PM »

Quote
Are you saying that you have boxes on your hives you have never inspected or looked into?

Pretty much.

We have two deeps and got up to two medium suppers full of honey.  Then we took off the two supers and harvested the honey.  So through the winter it is a two deep hive.  I like the idea of all the same equipment so I made 6 medium boxes and bought frames From betterbee to expand to another hive, maybe a nuc or two if it works out.  So equipment wise I  have now 8 medium-8 frame boxes and two 8 frame deeps.

When we removed the supers in the fall we could see that the hive was crammed full of bees but didn't remove any frames to look at them.  Yeah, I know it goes against all the rules.
Logged

Never thought I would do it!
kathyp
Universal Bee
*******
Offline Offline

Gender: Female
Posts: 15032


Location: boring, oregon


« Reply #29 on: March 04, 2011, 07:24:24 PM »

what rules?  i was looking at one of mine and realized the hive staples were still holding the bottom box and bottom board together.  i don't even remember when i caught that swarm, but apparently i have never lifted it and cleaned the bottom board.  it's a hardy hive, so....i'll get at it this spring wink
Logged

.....The greatest changes occur in their country without their cooperation. They are not even aware of precisely what has taken place. They suspect it; they have heard of the event by chance. More than that, they are unconcerned with the fortunes of their village, the safety of their streets, the fate of their church and its vestry. They think that such things have nothing to do with them, that they belong to a powerful stranger called “the government.” They enjoy these goods as tenants, without a sense of ownership, and never give a thought to how they might be improved.....

 Alexis de Tocqueville
NasalSponge
House Bee
**
Offline Offline

Gender: Male
Posts: 271


Location: OKC


WWW
« Reply #30 on: March 04, 2011, 08:55:50 PM »

Hummm, I don't know about this thread. Not going thru your brood chamber ever?? Never heard of that management technique. I go thru my boxes in the spring to check for overall health, swarm cells, brood patterns, honey and pollen stores, signs of pests and disease etc.....can't see that from on top. I also find my queen in a hive before I pull frames for nucs and she usually ends up on one of the last frames bottom box... Smiley As far as pulling boxes, I throw my cover upsidedown on the ground and set my box on it at an angle, sometimes I will cover it back up with the inner cover to keep the girls calm and out of direct sunlight. I don't know I think I am in a bit of shock here....
Logged

kathyp
Universal Bee
*******
Offline Offline

Gender: Female
Posts: 15032


Location: boring, oregon


« Reply #31 on: March 04, 2011, 09:02:42 PM »

won't deny that you should check your hives.  just don't think that it's a rule smiley  the newer you  are to beekeeping, the more you will learn by getting in there and seeing what's happening, catching problems early, and knowing what is normal and what is not.
Logged

.....The greatest changes occur in their country without their cooperation. They are not even aware of precisely what has taken place. They suspect it; they have heard of the event by chance. More than that, they are unconcerned with the fortunes of their village, the safety of their streets, the fate of their church and its vestry. They think that such things have nothing to do with them, that they belong to a powerful stranger called “the government.” They enjoy these goods as tenants, without a sense of ownership, and never give a thought to how they might be improved.....

 Alexis de Tocqueville
Acebird
Field Bee
***
Offline Offline

Gender: Male
Posts: 955


Location: Utica, NY

Just getting started


« Reply #32 on: March 05, 2011, 08:47:10 AM »

Hummm, I don't know about this thread. Not going thru your brood chamber ever?? Never heard of that management technique. I go thru my boxes in the spring to check for overall health, swarm cells, brood patterns, honey and pollen stores, signs of pests and disease etc.....can't see that from on top. I also find my queen in a hive before I pull frames for nucs and she usually ends up on one of the last frames bottom box... Smiley As far as pulling boxes, I throw my cover upsidedown on the ground and set my box on it at an angle, sometimes I will cover it back up with the inner cover to keep the girls calm and out of direct sunlight. I don't know I think I am in a bit of shock here....

The first year at the end of the winter (March) they were all dead (consensus was moisture) so we went through the brood boxes then and started again with another hive.  In February of this year they were alive like last year and it is now March.  Judging from the comments made on this forum about the photos of my hive this years they may not make it this year either.  If they do I will try a split.  I will also try a trap out because the opportunity exist.  With any luck I will be working two hives.  That could mean twice the fatalities. Cry  Hey, you guys said it is better to have two hives right?
Logged

Never thought I would do it!
Pages: 1 2 [All]   Go Up
  Print  
 
Jump to:  

Beemaster's Beekeeping Ring
Previous | Home | Join | Random | Next
Powered by MySQL Powered by PHP Powered by SMF 1.1.19 | SMF © 2013, Simple Machines | Sitemap Valid XHTML 1.0! Valid CSS!
Page created in 0.629 seconds with 21 queries.

Google visited last this page July 30, 2014, 06:01:55 AM
anything