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Author Topic: Which way to release the queen?  (Read 3493 times)
Dexterjc
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« on: March 01, 2011, 07:51:32 PM »

Just 32 day's until the bee's arrive  grin. When it comes time to release the queen via the candy, which way do you face the opening? Up or down? A lot of the books say up because if one of the bee's in the cage die they will fall away from the opening. I have also heard a lot of folks argue that if faced downwards the queen will exit the cage toward the center of the hive, and that bee's will likely remove any dead bee's that may be blocking the entrance. So I guess it is a matter of personal choice, but I wanted to get a feel on how you all do it.

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hankdog1
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« Reply #1 on: March 01, 2011, 08:17:48 PM »

Always did it facing down seems to be the easiest as most instructions with packages tells you that's the way to put them in.  Or you can just say the heck with it get a nuc and not worry about it.
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iddee
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« Reply #2 on: March 01, 2011, 10:19:34 PM »

Candy up.
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« Reply #3 on: March 01, 2011, 10:52:58 PM »

So far I have one vote for up and one for down.....I know about the saying if you ask 5 different beekeepers the same question you will get 7 different answers. I guess I just want to know if anyone does it for any other reason besides what has been listed so far. I want to make an educated decision.
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kathyp
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« Reply #4 on: March 01, 2011, 11:12:18 PM »

i just stick it in there and if she's not out in a few days, i turn her loose.  haven't purchased a queen for awhile, but i think i did it candy down.  the cage had a tab on the top and i pinned that to the frame. 
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.....The greatest changes occur in their country without their cooperation. They are not even aware of precisely what has taken place. They suspect it; they have heard of the event by chance. More than that, they are unconcerned with the fortunes of their village, the safety of their streets, the fate of their church and its vestry. They think that such things have nothing to do with them, that they belong to a powerful stranger called “the government.” They enjoy these goods as tenants, without a sense of ownership, and never give a thought to how they might be improved.....

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brooksbeefarm
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« Reply #5 on: March 01, 2011, 11:56:51 PM »

Some beeks in our bee club say to release the attendant's in the queen cage before you put her in the hive,but if you make a mistake and release the queen you may be ordering another queen.I've always put the candy end up,never had a problem. Jack
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« Reply #6 on: March 02, 2011, 09:08:38 AM »

If you check her after 3 or 4 days, it doesn't matter. I wait 7 days before I disturb them.

I know a breeder locally here that makes 6 to 8 hundred nucs annually. He just lays the queen cage on the bottom board, screen up.
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Acebird
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« Reply #7 on: March 02, 2011, 09:14:53 AM »

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I want to make an educated decision.

Statistically it doesn't matter.  People do it both ways and it still works.  Maybe you could lay it down sideways to get the other 5 answers you are looking for.
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« Reply #8 on: March 02, 2011, 09:43:08 AM »

Statistically?  There is 0% chance of an attendant dying and blocking the exit if the candy plug is facing up.  If there are attendants in the cage and the plug is facing down, there is a greater than 0% chance.  Horizontal is fine as well.

If you want to release the attendants (which I recommend for introduction unless you don't think you could catch a queen on a window and put her back in the cage if need be), use Michael Palmer's method.
Releasing Attendants...The Michael Palmer Way


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brooksbeefarm
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« Reply #9 on: March 02, 2011, 10:51:42 AM »

Take a frame, cut 4 inches. in the middle out of the topbar ,then make or cut another topbar so that it fits under the upper topbar and between the frame ends. This will give you a 4 in. gap to lay your queen cage with the screen up on top of the frame,you can place this frame under the hole of the inner cover.This way all you have to do to see if she has been released is raise the lid and look through the inner cover hole without disturbing the bees and eliminates the candy end up or down argument. grin A long gone beekeeper friend of mine showed me this and i use it when making up nuc's or requeening.I'm sure it's not new, maybe someone out there knows how to show a picture of it. Jack
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kathyp
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« Reply #10 on: March 02, 2011, 11:33:17 AM »

or take a thin strip of duct tape.  attach duct tape to cage leaving a few inches of tape free (don't cover screen).  remove one frame.  put thumb tack through free end of tape into the middle frame.  hang cage, screen out, in space made by removing frame.  don't bother with attendants.  don't worry about candy.  check back in a few days and if queen is not released and they have accepted her, release.
the hardest part is knowing if they have accepted her.  if you have doubts, leave her caged.  i have forgotten queen cages and when i go back, she's fine.  they'll take care of her though the screen.
if you have to turn her lose, and it's one of those wood cages with the screen, just hold the cage low or between frames and peel the screen off.  don't mess with the corks or candy.

don't make simple jobs hard.  there are enough hard jobs that can't be made simple.  grin
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.....The greatest changes occur in their country without their cooperation. They are not even aware of precisely what has taken place. They suspect it; they have heard of the event by chance. More than that, they are unconcerned with the fortunes of their village, the safety of their streets, the fate of their church and its vestry. They think that such things have nothing to do with them, that they belong to a powerful stranger called “the government.” They enjoy these goods as tenants, without a sense of ownership, and never give a thought to how they might be improved.....

 Alexis de Tocqueville
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« Reply #11 on: March 02, 2011, 12:08:00 PM »

Take a frame, cut 4 inches. in the middle out of the topbar ,then make or cut another topbar so that it fits under the upper topbar and between the frame ends. This will give you a 4 in. gap to lay your queen cage with the screen up on top of the frame,you can place this frame under the hole of the inner cover.This way all you have to do to see if she has been released is raise the lid and look through the inner cover hole without disturbing the bees and eliminates the candy end up or down argument. grin A long gone beekeeper friend of mine showed me this and i use it when making up nuc's or requeening.I'm sure it's not new, maybe someone out there knows how to show a picture of it. Jack




Or just release her when you install the package and be done with it rolleyes
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brooksbeefarm
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« Reply #12 on: March 02, 2011, 01:32:16 PM »

Kathyp, That's also a way to do it, but when you remove the queen cage you may have to remove the burr comb from the empty space between the frames. huh

Robo, i don't think that would be a good idea (direct release) with queens costing $24.00 to 26.00 this year. Unless you have deep pockets. grin Jack
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kathyp
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« Reply #13 on: March 02, 2011, 01:40:56 PM »

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Kathyp, That's also a way to do it, but when you remove the queen cage you may have to remove the burr comb from the empty space between the frames

that's true.  no brood in it, though  Wink
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.....The greatest changes occur in their country without their cooperation. They are not even aware of precisely what has taken place. They suspect it; they have heard of the event by chance. More than that, they are unconcerned with the fortunes of their village, the safety of their streets, the fate of their church and its vestry. They think that such things have nothing to do with them, that they belong to a powerful stranger called “the government.” They enjoy these goods as tenants, without a sense of ownership, and never give a thought to how they might be improved.....

 Alexis de Tocqueville
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« Reply #14 on: March 02, 2011, 01:56:59 PM »

I have always been told release with candy down in High climate area so that if the candy gets hot an drips it doesn't drip on the queen, and messes up her wings or kills her. But I haven't had bees in 7 years so they may have changed the candy they use and it no longer drips. so there is a reason for pointing it down.
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Robo
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« Reply #15 on: March 02, 2011, 02:00:46 PM »

Robo, i don't think that would be a good idea (direct release) with queens costing $24.00 to 26.00 this year. Unless you have deep pockets. grin Jack


Not so.   Many folks direct release queens.   After being confined in the package during transportation, the queen is no longer strange to the bees.

http://www.bushfarms.com/beespackages.htm


Now if your installing the package on the same say it is shook,  then it might not be the best.
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Acebird
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« Reply #16 on: March 02, 2011, 02:07:09 PM »

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use Michael Palmer's method.

Yeah, that's what I'm gonna do. rolleyes
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BlueBee
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« Reply #17 on: March 02, 2011, 02:34:18 PM »

How many $25 queens get lost between the car seats using that MP method?

I think I’ll listen to AceBird on this one.

I’ve done sideways releases and direct releases, both worked for me.
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brooksbeefarm
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« Reply #18 on: March 02, 2011, 03:32:25 PM »

Robo, That's true, but it would depend on how long in transit. I've had package bees that took two days to get to me and the workers were biting and stinging the queen cage when i hived them the day i recieved them. Yes i have direct released them when things look right, but i wouldn't recommend it to a newbee. Jack
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Acebird
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« Reply #19 on: March 02, 2011, 04:07:49 PM »

This confuses me.  I have never done a package but doesn't the trip give the bees time to get used to the queen?  Why would they bite and sting the cage?
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BjornBee
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« Reply #20 on: March 02, 2011, 04:20:19 PM »

I have never injured a queen, or lost a queen, by taking out the attendants.  grin Of course, I have never taken out the attendants before putting in a queen cage.  Wink

And I never had a problem introducing queens, that would justify taking out the attendants in the first place.  rolleyes
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rdy-b
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« Reply #21 on: March 02, 2011, 04:27:23 PM »

 the only time i would take out the atendants is if i where going
 to BANK the queen- Wink RDY-B
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kathyp
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« Reply #22 on: March 02, 2011, 04:50:30 PM »

depends on how long they have been in the package. 
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.....The greatest changes occur in their country without their cooperation. They are not even aware of precisely what has taken place. They suspect it; they have heard of the event by chance. More than that, they are unconcerned with the fortunes of their village, the safety of their streets, the fate of their church and its vestry. They think that such things have nothing to do with them, that they belong to a powerful stranger called “the government.” They enjoy these goods as tenants, without a sense of ownership, and never give a thought to how they might be improved.....

 Alexis de Tocqueville
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« Reply #23 on: March 02, 2011, 05:13:50 PM »

sometimes there is a queen in the cluster.
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deknow
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« Reply #24 on: March 03, 2011, 12:01:59 AM »

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use Michael Palmer's method.

Yeah, that's what I'm gonna do. rolleyes

yes, you can quote me out of context in order to find something to disagree with...although i'm not sure what that accomplishes other than raising your post count.

i never told anyone to use michael palmer's method...and since i doubt you have ever picked up a queen with your bare hands, i would not recommend this for you.

what i said was that if you want to remove the attendants, use michael palmer's method.  jack (brooksbeefarm) had expressed concern about losing the queen while releasing the attendants, and i posted a video of how to minimize the risk.

beekeepers do things all different ways.  michael raises and introduces a lot of queens every year.  whether or not you agree with his methods, they are proven sound over a long period of time...someone to pay attention to.  a non-migratory commercial beekeeper who is successful by any standard.

deknow
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deknow
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« Reply #25 on: March 03, 2011, 12:05:18 AM »

I have always been told release with candy down in High climate area so that if the candy gets hot an drips it doesn't drip on the queen...
an interesting thought, but i can't imagine a scenario where freeflying bees with a sufficient cluster will allow the queen cage (or candy) to get much hotter than 95 degrees.  regulating the environment in the hive is necessary to keep brood and queen from cooking, and to keep comb from melting.

deknow
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« Reply #26 on: March 03, 2011, 12:48:26 AM »

>How many $25 queens get lost between the car seats using that MP method?

Queens fly to the window, not to the seat.

>I think I’ll listen to AceBird on this one.

Nov 23 2010 Acebird describes himself as "just getting started".  I would describe Michael Palmer as a man who spent his life making living keeping bees.  Listen to whoever you like.  But you might want to think it over.

Not that I won't disagree with Palmer on this one and agree with Bjorn on this one.  I don't release attendants.
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deknow
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« Reply #27 on: March 03, 2011, 01:01:12 AM »

Nov 23 2010 Acebird describes himself as "just getting started". 
...and on march 2 (today) he stated that he has never installed a package.

deknow
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Acebird
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« Reply #28 on: March 03, 2011, 08:32:38 AM »

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Listen to whoever you like.


The most successful people in life listen to everybody and then choose wisely on what they say not who said it.

As the previous posts have sited I don't claim to know anything about bees, but if I needed to release the attendants (for reasons I don't know yet) I would devise an enclosed chamber to separate them from the queen instead of in the a cab of a truck.

My comment was meant to be humorous from the perspective of a newbee.  I can't picture any newbee trying this.  The video in itself is humorous to a newbee.
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« Reply #29 on: March 03, 2011, 11:53:19 AM »

sometimes in a package inadvertently there is a virgin queen.  The bees get used to her and the queen in the cage is not accepted.

Thus the biting.

Linda T in Atlanta
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« Reply #30 on: March 03, 2011, 11:56:41 AM »

Oops - I posted in response to the end of page one and didn't see that there was a full page two already! I'm sorry
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« Reply #31 on: March 03, 2011, 12:01:34 PM »

...and sometimes she is not a virgin.  catching "the" queen can often lead you to miss "the other" queen(s).
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« Reply #32 on: March 03, 2011, 12:10:30 PM »

Wrap a rubber band around a frame and place the queen cage between the rubber band and foundation. The cage will be laying sideways (screen side out). Its quick and easy. Ive tried taping-sometimes it works sometimes it doesnt and a few other ways. Rubber bands are quick and easy.
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« Reply #33 on: March 03, 2011, 12:34:37 PM »

...this works with foundation...but we had one friend who did this with HSC (fully drawn plastic).  the screen was not accessable to the workers, and the queens died.  same would likely happen with drawn comb.

regardless of how you do this, make sure the screen is accessible!

deknow
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