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Author Topic: And then there's THIS...!  (Read 6626 times)
zzen01
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« on: February 24, 2011, 01:48:48 PM »

 angry

http://omaha.com/article/20110224/NEWS01/702249780#lawmakers-defining-honey
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D Coates
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« Reply #1 on: February 24, 2011, 02:16:46 PM »

Sounds good until you think about bureaucrats poking their noses in this.  Will everyone who retails honey have to submit to testing?  Who's setting up the definition?  Who's going to test it, what if your girls get into a hummingbird feeder or something else and your honey fails?  Who's paying for this.  Are there better uses for their time and Iowan money?
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Finski
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« Reply #2 on: February 24, 2011, 02:46:54 PM »

.
In European Union honey has rules what stuff you can sell under the title of honey

Text from Australian origin


European Union

Edible bee products

Australia has a trading history with the following European Union (EU) member countries;
Austria, Belgium, Denmark, Luxembourg, Finland, France, Germany, Greece, Hungary,
Ireland, Italy, Poland, Portugal, Slovenia, Spain, Sweden and the United Kingdom.
To export to EU member states, all Australian exporters must be aware of the bee product
provisions in Regulations (EC) No 178/2002, (EC) No 852/2004 and (EC) No 853/2004 and
must produce their bee products to comply with these regulations.
Exporters to the EU must register with AQIS and must have implemented a HACCP based
food safety program, which meets the requirements of Regulation (EC) No 852/2004. The
Australian Honey Bee Industry Council’s B-QUAL and other JASANZ accredited food safety
programs meet the requirements of Regulation (EC) No 852/2004.
All honey exported to the EU must be monitored for residues in compliance with Directive
96/23/EC. Due to the collaborative effort between the Australian Honey Bee Industry
Council (AHBIC), the National Residue Survey (NRS) and AQIS, all Australian honey meets
this requirement and exporters do not need to do further residue testing if the product they are
exporting is of Australian origin.
The European Union does not allow the use of antibiotics in bee products. The only antibiotic
allowed in Australian apiculture is oxytetracycline, which only a veterinarian can prescribe
for the treatment of an outbreak of European Foulbrood. Exporters cannot send honey to the
EU from properties that have treated their hives with oxytetracycline in the previous six
months.
The European Union permits the export of Australian honey blended with imported honey.
However, the honey must be the product of one of the countries allowed to send honey to the
EU. Each year, the EU updates this list and the list is current for 12. The current list can be
found in Commission Decision 2009/800/EC and has been reproduced at Attachment 1.
Exporters must ensure that the appropriate certificate, which they have accurately completed,
accompanies all edible bee product exports to EU member countries. An AQIS authorised
officer will check, sign and stamp all certificates for edible bee products to the EU. Manual
EU edible bee product certificates are available in English, French/English, German/English
and Italian/English.
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.
Language barrier NOT included
Vetch
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« Reply #3 on: February 24, 2011, 03:15:55 PM »

Without a standard of identity or legal definition of honey, anyone can sell anything and call it honey. 
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BjornBee
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« Reply #4 on: February 24, 2011, 03:20:53 PM »

From the article...

>>>>If the measure is enacted, products couldn't be labeled as honey unless they met the standard trade groups suggested.


Do you read between the lines? It's not a matter of IF a dispute arises, then testing could be used as a means to pull bad honey....this means that for YOU TO LABEL YOUR HONEY....YOU must first MEET the standard.

I've said it before and I'll keep repeating it. Those folks running down the street asking for the government to get involved, demanding definitions and a police state of control to protect their own interests, will promote the bloated future and system of inspectors, taxes and new permit fees, and the smothering of the small bee operators. I am saddened everytime a group asks for government to grow bigger and bigger in attempts to save us from ourselves. 

Sorry finski.....I don't wish to be like the EU.  Wink  As far as I'm concerned, we should do a bit less of shipping common products from half way around the world, when we could and should produce those products here. If you banned U.S. honey, and we banned European and Aussie honey here, that would be fine by me.  Wink
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The Bix
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« Reply #5 on: February 24, 2011, 03:40:34 PM »

Amen Bjorn!  Caveat Emptor is the best, most efficient, cost effective way to go.
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Bee Happy
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« Reply #6 on: February 24, 2011, 03:45:54 PM »

90% of the honey I bought before I got my own bees was from either a guy who other people knew was a beekeeper, or I could see the hives from where I paid. - the other 10% might have been sue bee or some other product the origins of which I couldn't swear to from the grocery store . I guess "caveat emptor" has changed to  "rex praesidio infirma"
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oliver
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« Reply #7 on: February 24, 2011, 05:15:26 PM »

Illinois has enacted regs that if enforced will put  hobbyists and small bee keepers in a bind,,Basically put in with processed food group, if you extract it its processed if you cut comb honey out of the box its processed.. Therefore you must meet the requirements for processing food, think they just copied the slaughter house regs, which when enacted put most of the local meat processors out of business...I'm sure along with this will come fees and inspections,, welcome to the 21st century
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Vetch
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« Reply #8 on: February 24, 2011, 05:20:12 PM »

Those crazy socialist beekeepers in North Carolina have been working for a standard of identity of honey for a while, along with a law to support it. They are almost there. Here are some parts I found to be interesting and/or valuable to the average beek.

Quote
2.    The definition of “Honey” is as follows: Honey is the natural sweet substance produced by honey bees from the nectar of plants or from secretions of living parts of plants or the excretions of plant sucking insects on the living parts of plants; which the bees collect, transform by combining with specific substances of their own, deposit, dehydrate, store, and leave in the honey comb to ripen and mature.  Furthermore, nothing may be removed from or added to that product if the material is to be labeled as honey”.
a.     Based on this definition, there is no difference between honey that is labeled as “Honey” or as “Pure Honey”.


1.     Geographic Origin of the Honey
a.     All honey must list a country or countries of origin if the product is not completely from the United States.
b.    Honey from multiple countries of origin should have the countries listed on the container in descending order of content.
c.    Honey labeled as produced in North Carolina must contain only honey produced in that state.


1.     Use of the Word “Honey” and Honey Labels
a.    If anything is added to honey, including natural flavors, then the final product may not be labeled as “Honey”.  For example, if blueberry flavor is added to honey then the product may be labeled as “Blueberry-Flavored Honey Syrup”; but it may not be labeled as “Blueberry Honey”.
b.    If anything is added to the honey, then the product may not use the term “Honey” as the final noun in the name of the product.  For example, a mixture of high fructose corn syrup and honey could not be labeled as “High Fructose Honey” but it could be labeled as “Honey Flavored Corn Syrup”.

1.     Violations of this Honey Standard
a.     A citizen of North Carolina may bring a complaint against someone selling a product labeled as honey, if they think the honey is in violation of this standard.
b.    The costs of such a complaint will be paid by the complainant unless the claim is verified by the NC Dept of Agriculture and Consumer Services.  In that case, the guilty party should be assessed to cover the costs of the complaint and the party bringing the Verified complaint will be reimbursed for their expenses.


http://www.wakecountybeekeepers.org/2010/08/state-beekeepers-adopt-honey-standard/
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Scadsobees
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« Reply #9 on: February 24, 2011, 09:39:02 PM »

When the rules become so stupid and difficult to follow for most people, they don't.

Besides, who's got any budgets to enforce it? rolleyes
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Rick
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« Reply #10 on: February 25, 2011, 09:36:17 AM »

If I read the NC regs that Vetch posted correctly, if you sold infused honey you'd have to change the final name to "syrup."  We'll, if I'm going to have to call it syrup why don't I go ahead and water it down with syrup as I will not be able to get the premium price for syrup that honey gets.  To me, this is exactly the type of "laws" that over reaching governments shackle on the "free" that do not increase our quality of life but burden us with red tape.  While Vetch's "crazy socialist" statement appears to be tongue in cheek (judging from prior posts), the posted regulations appear to made the unintended point.
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greenbtree
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« Reply #11 on: February 25, 2011, 10:12:17 AM »

I agree with Scadsobees - we don't enforce the regs we have now due to budget.

JC
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Acebird
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« Reply #12 on: February 25, 2011, 06:41:46 PM »

Quote
If you banned U.S. honey, and we banned European and Aussie honey here, that would be fine by me.
 

You can cry about it or you can bury your head in the sand but today's market has gone global with no signs of reverting back.  You probably don't want to hear this but if you produce food on a large scale than you should be regulated like any other food source.  Why should honey be any different?
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BjornBee
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« Reply #13 on: February 25, 2011, 07:20:21 PM »

Quote
If you banned U.S. honey, and we banned European and Aussie honey here, that would be fine by me.
 

You can cry about it or you can bury your head in the sand

Are these the only two options you can think of? Is this the only two options you have for yourself? So tell me....which do you do?

Quote
If you banned U.S. honey, and we banned European and Aussie honey here, that would be fine by me.
 

  You probably don't want to hear........


How do you know what I probably do, and what I don't want to hear? Or do you just take it upon yourself to know everything?

Quote
If you banned U.S. honey, and we banned European and Aussie honey here, that would be fine by me.
 

if you produce food on a large scale than you should be regulated like any other food source.  Why should honey be any different?

What are you talking about? The quote you copied had to do with the shipping of products from around the world, while I think it would be better to produce those products here.

As example.....I personally think shipping in bottled water from around the world in plastic containers is insane. Insane for the planet, and insane for this country's business.

While I do not think we should legislate or outlaw the right of any consumer, I personally do try to buy local, buy U.S. made products, and support my neighbors and local, state, and national economy, as much as possible. If you don't want to....that is your choice. I offered my opinion, and you come back with nonsense suggesting anyone apparently not with the same thought process as you...must be crying or has their heads in the sand. I do agree that we as a country will never change the fact that we import 70% of the honey consumed in this country, as long as folks like you are around. I do what I can. But I also don't complain about no jobs or the health of the economy when most of the consumer goods are brought into this country, and people like you encourage, accept, and do nothing to change it. Me....I do rather well. I hope you are also.

I have honestly tried to follow your logic and conversation, and just find most of it mind boggling. While others may respond with passion and take a jab, I think you try to do the same, but just miss the mark, time and time again.

Sorry, my comments and your reply are like oil and water. But you keep stirring...I'm sure you'll get there sooner or later.  Wink
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Michael Bush
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« Reply #14 on: February 26, 2011, 12:08:51 AM »

As I understand it (I haven't seen the actual law being voted on but have heard the Nebraska Beekeepers Association take on it) it does not require any testing, but allows testing if there is a concern.  It just defines what "honey" is and allows some recourse if there is some suspicion as to whether it is honey or not.
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Michael Bush
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Bee Happy
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« Reply #15 on: February 26, 2011, 12:16:43 AM »

(IMO) A clear definition is fine as long as its purpose is for civil action - (recompense for fraud or false advertizing)  If it's to be used to force more bureaucracy then no frikin thank you.
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oliver
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« Reply #16 on: February 26, 2011, 08:43:52 AM »

illinois regulation applys to all, not just large producers, its hard to justify a 10k upgrade to sell 500$ worth of honey..
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Acebird
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« Reply #17 on: February 26, 2011, 08:49:08 AM »

Quote
It just defines what "honey" is and allows some recourse if there is some suspicion as to whether it is honey or not.

BINGO!

Quote
But I also don't complain about no jobs or the health of the economy when most of the consumer goods are brought into this country, and people like you encourage, accept, and do nothing to change it.


We must be one and the same.  People here have suggested ways of making your efforts more effective and you don't even want to here it.  You don't understand my sarcasm so you interpret it incorrectly.  And because of who you are that is what sticks in their minds.  What makes you think I don't do anything.  True, I wouldn't lay down in front of a tank thinking it would stop it from running over me.  I am not a martyr, I am a realist.  I might pour honey in the fuel tanks the night before the demonstration.
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Acebird
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« Reply #18 on: February 26, 2011, 09:20:35 AM »

Quote
its hard to justify a 10k upgrade


What in the regulations costs 10K?  Could you give us some examples?
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oliver
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« Reply #19 on: February 26, 2011, 09:29:13 AM »

Processed food regs, the facility , room, building, whatever or where ever you choose to process your honey  must comply, your home kitchen is not even close.. puts you in the same catagory as Kraft foods or excell ..
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