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Author Topic: Comb age & egg laying  (Read 4287 times)
Countryboy
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« Reply #20 on: February 24, 2011, 07:43:46 PM »

I don't think folks understood what I was saying.  A frame of foundation is not going to prevent swarming - however, a frame of foundation can buy you a couple extra days time.  It's too late to buy time when you pull into the yard and have swarms hanging in trees.

As much as I hate to use foam in my hive can I add a piece to my medium frames so when I put them in a deep box the bees cannot continue building something underneath the medium frames?

Yes, but why go to the effort?  So what if bees draw a little comb at the bottom of a medium frame.  One quick swipe with the hive tool gets rid of it.  Problem solved.  No sense making something any more difficult than it has to be.
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Acebird
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« Reply #21 on: February 25, 2011, 08:33:50 AM »

Quote
One quick swipe with the hive tool gets rid of it.  Problem solved.  No sense making something any more difficult than it has to be.

You don't think it would be a problem for the adjacent frames next to the medium?  I am asking.
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T Beek
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« Reply #22 on: February 25, 2011, 08:55:18 AM »

Acebird;  if all you want is another colony, Once weather is right, why not do a simple walk-away split?  See Michael Bush's site for excellent detailed discriptions.  A walk-away is one of the easiest ways I know to get 2 colonies from one.

thomas
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Finski
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« Reply #23 on: February 25, 2011, 08:59:37 AM »

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However, I take off the frames where sun light does not come through any more.

I keep dark combs in the middle of box and light color on sides.
When queen lays the dark comb full, I lift it to super. There brood emerge and and bees fill the comb with honey. After extracting I may melt the comb.

If the comb has much pollen, I put it inside brood area and bees consume the pollen.

Dark combs are not problem to me.  But once they were when I put light color combs in the middle. One day all my combs become old.

During heavy nectar flow bees draw so much new combs as I need. I need them usually 1,5 boxes per hive per year.
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Brian D. Bray
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« Reply #24 on: February 25, 2011, 04:00:48 PM »

Yeah Brian, I have been waiting for a post like this but I have a complication, I think.  I have one hive and I want to grow to two.  The brood chamber is two deeps high and my supers are mediums.  I want to end up with one deep under each hive at the end of the split process so can I use your scheme on the mother hive putting a medium between the two deeps that I have?

As much as I hate to use foam in my hive can I add a piece to my medium frames so when I put them in a deep box the bees cannot continue building something underneath the medium frames?


What complication?  2 deeps and 2 mediums, think about it and reread my post, the solution should be obvious.  No queen excluder?  Use an inner top to seperate the deeps, then proceed as described.   If the queen is in the upper box and then decides to go up into a medium super, the split is simple, cut each hive down to 1 medium and 1 deep, then super with a deep between when needed and you're back to normal.
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Acebird
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« Reply #25 on: February 25, 2011, 05:59:54 PM »

I will have to super with a medium because the two deeps that I have will be on the bottom of each hive.
Acebird;  if all you want is another colony, Once weather is right, why not do a simple walk-away split?  See Michael Bush's site for excellent detailed discriptions.  A walk-away is one of the easiest ways I know to get 2 colonies from one.

thomas

Yes, I read that over twice now and I will do it again and compare these two methods.  Changing over to medium equipment is my biggest concern.
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Countryboy
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« Reply #26 on: February 25, 2011, 11:05:44 PM »

You don't think it would be a problem for the adjacent frames next to the medium?  I am asking.

What possible problem could there be?  I can't think of any off the top of my head.
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Finski
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« Reply #27 on: February 26, 2011, 12:40:15 AM »

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If I want another colony, I make a nuc and let the main hive develope as forager.

3 frames are enough to start a new colony and it doen not disturb much honey yeild.

If you split 4 box hive into two, that will be end of your honey yield for next 2 months.


Splitting hives need no skills. To get good honey yield is much more difficult.
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Acebird
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« Reply #28 on: February 26, 2011, 09:17:44 AM »

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Splitting hives need no skills. To get good honey yield is much more difficult.

I like the no skills part but on the topic of yield, are you saying you will get no honey with the split or you will get less honey with the split"

If you do your nuc method are you risking survival through the winter or the likehood that the nuc will swarm and you loose it?
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Finski
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« Reply #29 on: February 26, 2011, 09:47:52 AM »

t

If you do your nuc method are you risking survival through the winter or the likehood that the nuc will swarm and you loose it?

what ever happens if I do things wrong. But what I do with my 47 years experience if all goes wrong?

Survival means that nuc has enough bees. You must join weak colonies and you may take brood frames from strong hives.

If late nuc has not enough winter food, take capped frames from big hives.
Small colony may have difficulties to cap food if weathers are cold.

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Acebird
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« Reply #30 on: February 26, 2011, 03:00:07 PM »

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Survival means that nuc has enough bees. You must join weak colonies and you may take brood frames from strong hives.

This is where it gets a little scary for a newbie with no experience.  It is hard to tell what a weak colony is when a nuc can be a small as two or three frames and a normal brood chamber would have 16 frames covered with bees.  Come next fall I am going to want to know if the nuc is weak or strong.  So be prepared for my foolish questions.
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Finski
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« Reply #31 on: February 26, 2011, 03:47:33 PM »

 .
Fall is too late for questions.

You have a long summer to get your colonies big.
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T Beek
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« Reply #32 on: February 26, 2011, 04:20:37 PM »

Our summer is a bit over three months (last hard frost to first hard frost) but we extend w/ human know-how grin.

thomas
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Countryboy
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« Reply #33 on: February 26, 2011, 08:00:14 PM »

I like the no skills part but on the topic of yield, are you saying you will get no honey with the split or you will get less honey with the split"

If you actually read what he wrote, you will see that he said NEITHER of those.  In fact, he said that splitting and honey yield were DIFFERENT things. 

He is correct.  It is easy to split a hive.

He is correct.  Knowing how to properly manage a hive so that you can harvest a good honey crop is much more difficult than the simple job of splitting a hive.

I do not know why you are associating splitting the hive with making a good honey crop.
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Acebird
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« Reply #34 on: February 27, 2011, 08:30:31 AM »

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He is correct.  It is easy to split a hive.

He is correct.  Knowing how to properly manage a hive so that you can harvest a good honey crop is much more difficult than the simple job of splitting a hive.

Thank you for the clarification.  Knowing how to properly manage a hive so that I can harvest a good honey crop is not a problem for me.  I will take what ever comes and be satisfied.  I'm not in business.
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Brian D. Bray
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« Reply #35 on: March 04, 2011, 11:51:30 AM »

He also inferred that you can split and still keep a strong hive for honey production:

Quote
3 frames are enough to start a new colony and it doen not disturb much honey yeild.

Making a 3 frame split into a nuc not affect honey production more than a few pounds for the course of the season, but it allows the beekeeper to still increase his apiary and, to an extent, control the swarming tendency.

Best methods to limit swarming:
1. Split hive, removing old queen. Split can be between 3-10 frames.
2. Provide plenty of room to prevent overcrowding, add supers.
3. Keep bees building comb in or at the edges of the brood chamber.  This a good way to rotate out old brood combs that can either be melte down or used as bait frames in bait hives or swarm traps.

There are a few other, minor considerations, but those are the major ones.


Without controlling swarming or providing sufficient storage/curing space for the nectar, the honey harvest will be deminished.
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Countryboy
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« Reply #36 on: March 04, 2011, 11:28:58 PM »

He also inferred that you can split and still keep a strong hive for honey production:

This requires much more advanced beekeeping skills.

Making a 3 frame split into a nuc not affect honey production more than a few pounds for the course of the season, but it allows the beekeeper to still increase his apiary and, to an extent, control the swarming tendency.

I'd like to see the beekeeper who can do a 3 frame split into a nuc and make a honey crop from that nuc - and do it on any kind of scale.

Here, you can do a 3 frame split into a single deep box with 4-5 frames of feed, and add a mated queen - throw on an excluder and a couple supers of drawn comb...and the timing determines if it was worthwhile or not.  We start extracting in mid-July.  If you do a split like this before June 1, you will get an increase in honey sufficient to pay the cost of the frames of feed and the price of the new queen.  If you do this split after June 1, it is unlikely that you will make enough extra honey to justify the cost of the feed and queen - in short, you would have been money ahead to have left the 3 frames with the parent hive.
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Acebird
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« Reply #37 on: March 05, 2011, 10:11:18 AM »

I like Dee's why of doing a split.  Just do it one after another.
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