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Author Topic: 100,000 beekeeper petition drive  (Read 6770 times)
deknow
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« Reply #20 on: February 22, 2011, 04:20:55 PM »

Are you talking about the National Honey Bee Day program? Or the National Honey Board?

Sorry, National Honey Board.

If you are successful, you will have 100,000 signatures looking for "change' to help the honeybee.

The NHB will come along and say what that change should be to "help beekeepers" (really to "help importers/packers)...and it will appear that the 100,000 you get to sign the petition is in support.

deknow
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Acebird
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« Reply #21 on: February 22, 2011, 04:29:48 PM »

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wouldn't it be more effective to concentrate efforts on education


Yes, but only if you target the youth.  Elders will be dead before anything happens and youth has the most to gain in these efforts.  Target social medias because the youth doesn't watch the news unless it is on facebook or some other internet media.  They will also be the ones making the changes if they should occur in the government and corporate policies.
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« Reply #22 on: February 22, 2011, 04:38:36 PM »

Are you talking about the National Honey Bee Day program? Or the National Honey Board?

Sorry, National Honey Board.

If you are successful, you will have 100,000 signatures looking for "change' to help the honeybee.

The NHB will come along and say what that change should be to "help beekeepers" (really to "help importers/packers)...and it will appear that the 100,000 you get to sign the petition is in support.

deknow

When we first started National Honey Be Day, we were approached by several bee organizations that wanted to give us credit, take the program, and run with it. We declined all requests and offers. And have been very strict that the National Honey Bee Day program be as a grassroots effort. And not one to be commercialized, or bastardized in any way. And that commitment will continue as long as I am alive.

One of the reasons I do some of the things I do, is for the reasoning, assumptions, and views, that nothing should happen in this country without certain groups taking the lead. As if beekeepers banding together is not possible. As if some inner circle of individuals run everything in this country when it comes to bees.

But how is that working out? Where are not marches, petitions, and national campaigns? What is there for the average beekeeper to hang their hat on in hoping something will change in the future? Other than national queen programs that promote honey (foreign honey at that) and some companies such as those selling ice cream and raising funds for research (which I do not think is the answer for many of the problems we face in the bee industry) we see little actual organization, effort, or willingness to get the beekeeping community active in matters effecting them.

Me...I'm tired of sitting around waiting for something to happen. I'm tired of thinking someone else will make a difference. And I think there may be others that feel the same disappointment that I have for the past four years.

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« Reply #23 on: February 22, 2011, 04:59:06 PM »

wouldn't it be more effective to concentrate efforts on education than on a petition with inaccurate and nonspecific info...and to what end?  what do you want the govt to do?

What inaccurate information are you suggesting on the petition kathy?

I hope your not basing it on one narrow article about GM crops. I know for a fact that the lawn care industry itself had tripled in the past 10 years. I think you have badly missed the overall chemical use increase in this country, perhaps based on one slanted supposedly scientific article on Gm crops. I think we can do better than that.

As for education...is not a petition a form of educating the public? Holding up a clip board and yelling "Help save the bees" would probably garner some signatures from the public at most social events. And I highly doubt they will be asking for finer details of what will and what will not be asked, demanded, or stated, later in some yet to be set meeting in Washington. I know I have shown the petition to a number of folks and they have nothing but concern for the bees and are more than willing to sign the petition. I have simply told them the petition hopefully creates enough chatter and support to get a meeting. It's a great way to open up a discussion to the problems in the industry. So please hold up the clip board, and be prepared to have the public ask lots of questions. Not about the petition....but about the bees. It's a great educational tool.

This gives me an idea....maybe I should just bypass the beekeepers and just go straight to the public. They seem much more willing to support a general petition calling attention to the plight of the Honey bee, and far less willing to get hung up on smaller details.  Wink And we wonder why nothing ever gets done.  rolleyes
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backyard warrior
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« Reply #24 on: February 22, 2011, 05:41:33 PM »

I hear what your saying Mike its kinda like the situation of the recession in this country everyone barks but nothing happens the people just sit back and watch and hope the gov will fix it  butt kick
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kathyp
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« Reply #25 on: February 22, 2011, 06:26:06 PM »

We the undersigned, request acknowledgement to the problems and plight that honey bees have endured. Recent massive honey bee colony deaths, at levels not seen previously in history, are signs that something is wrong in the environment. Native pollinators, bats, frogs, butterflies, and the honey bee in particular are being killed off due to a host of agriculture practices. The increased use of pesticides, herbicides and fungicides, and new classes of approved chemicals are contributing to the loss of honey bees. Without honey bees for pollination our food crops are in peril. And we seek support and change to allow honey bees to thrive.

not unprecedented.  it's happened before and before pesticides. 

prove the connection between loss of pollinators and pesticides, etc. 

i'm not saying that you are wrong.  i am only saying that you can't make the connection.  to my knowledge, try as they might, no one has made that connection in a verifiable way.

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.....The greatest changes occur in their country without their cooperation. They are not even aware of precisely what has taken place. They suspect it; they have heard of the event by chance. More than that, they are unconcerned with the fortunes of their village, the safety of their streets, the fate of their church and its vestry. They think that such things have nothing to do with them, that they belong to a powerful stranger called “the government.” They enjoy these goods as tenants, without a sense of ownership, and never give a thought to how they might be improved.....

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« Reply #26 on: February 22, 2011, 06:26:32 PM »

You can't fix something that isn't broken.  The system is working as planned.

We are no where near the point of setting ourselves on fire.  So there is not going to be a revolution to change the direction of how things are planned.  Money talks and always will.
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« Reply #27 on: February 22, 2011, 06:50:49 PM »

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to my knowledge, try as they might, no one has made that connection in a verifiable way.

Look at the people that refuse to eat food that has been sprayed with pesticides.  Then look and those that don't care.  Now here is the easy part, compare their medical history.  It is a no brainer.
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« Reply #28 on: February 22, 2011, 07:37:08 PM »

The public momentum is on our side...I spent all day Saturday at a sustainable food/agriculture event in DC.  There were 500 people there.  The beekeeping demonstration was standing room only.  This sustainable movement is organized by, and led by folks who may not necessarily gel socially or politically with some beekeepers but they have been very supportive of my efforts to educate and propagate colonies in my urban locale.  They seem to have the same issues with Big Agriculture (pesticides, herbicides, GM, etc) that we do.  I have allied myself with these groups and they have helped considerably with outreach.  I wish I had that petition three days ago (or had the initiative to start my own) as I would have had several hundred signatures.

I have also done installations at two restaurant farms that will use the "sustainability" vocabulary when referring to my bee efforts on their farms.

And Whole Foods has sponsored several District Government community gardens here in DC with part of that sponsorship investing in hives.

The District Parks and Rec beekeeping course is oversubscribed with over 100 participants.

Wind is at our backs, ladies and gentlemen.  I see this petition as a means of keeping the importance of beekeeping in the public conscience, expanding our reach beyond our small community to a younger, "mainstreamed," and "connected" demographic.
Peace,
Jeff
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« Reply #29 on: February 22, 2011, 07:56:25 PM »

i hope you are right Dc the bees are def quite amazing and after awhile the stings dont seem to bother you because you know the bees are on our side and without them life just wouldnt be the same from my perspective  jail
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BjornBee
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« Reply #30 on: February 22, 2011, 08:20:33 PM »

kathy,

What part are you suggesting is wrong?

The first highlighted part is....."Recent massive honey bee colony deaths, at levels not seen previously in history." And that is absolutely correct.  Although bees have died off in the past, no count of colony loss has been seen by today's numbers, which is in the hundreds of thousands of colonies.

History shows that we have had die offs before. But these were isolated to regions, or state level losses. NOTHING has come close to the bee die offs seen in the past 3-4 years on a national scale. Making my first comment highlighted by you....correct.

The second highlighted statement is "Native pollinators, bats, frogs, butterflies, and the honey bee in particular are being killed off due to a host of agriculture practices."

Holy crap! Are you suggesting that no agriculture practices have ever killed off any bees, bats, frogs, or butterflies. Absolutely amazing. I myself lost 10 hives in 2009 due to no-till late season sprays. And I have experienced partial loss of a bee colony many times due to sprays associated with commercial farms and sprays. And it seems many other beekeepers have seen pesticide poisoning, colony loss, and impacts of farming practices. If you stating that no proof has ever been seen that farming practices have ever killed off any of the items listed.....I have no idea how to respond to this. Your either totally isolated from the rest of the world, or just ignorant to the problems.

On their own merit....EVERY statement I made in that paragraph is TRUE.
« Last Edit: February 22, 2011, 08:38:17 PM by BjornBee » Logged

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kathyp
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« Reply #31 on: February 22, 2011, 08:57:09 PM »

i'm not saying it's wrong.  i'm saying that you can't make a connection between massive loss (CCD) and pesticide.  of course we lose hives from pesticide.  that's not the same thing.  we have reports that go back to the 1800's of CCD like losses.  those losses were probably much higher than we know as there was no good way to report and keep track.  

same for your contention that native pollinators are being killed off.  no doubt some are killed by pesticides, but if there is a real reduction of numbers, i have seen no postmortem proof that an over all reduction is due to pesticides.  

so...it's not that you are wrong, it's just that there is no proof that you are right.  rather than things you can't support, could you document the increase use of chemicals and point out how that might be harmful to bees, bats, etc.  you could make your point with some real numbers.  around here, people are trying to use less because it's expensive and it's what consumers want.  of course, the grass seed farmers are back to using fungicides on the fields because they can't burn them off anymore, but that's another subject.   Wink
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.....The greatest changes occur in their country without their cooperation. They are not even aware of precisely what has taken place. They suspect it; they have heard of the event by chance. More than that, they are unconcerned with the fortunes of their village, the safety of their streets, the fate of their church and its vestry. They think that such things have nothing to do with them, that they belong to a powerful stranger called “the government.” They enjoy these goods as tenants, without a sense of ownership, and never give a thought to how they might be improved.....

 Alexis de Tocqueville
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« Reply #32 on: February 22, 2011, 10:06:11 PM »

kathy,
Your asking me to prove something I never said. I never said pesticides are responsible for CCD losses. I never said there was a real reduction in native pollinators. Read the petition statement again. Your adding meaning, claiming things that do not exist, and are nitpicking over your own reading of statements that should be very clear.

Show me what statement had me saying CCD was from pesticides.

Show me what statement claiming a reduction in native pollinators.

your own comments claim I did both of these things.

And I never once even mentioned CCD in the statement.

For cryin out loud. It's not that hard to understand.

It's a freakin petition. Not a research article to stand before the public and fill their heads with statistical data, foot notes, and research garble. It's a petition designed to make connections with the public in terms and words they understand.  

No wonder the bee industry is so screwed up.
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« Reply #33 on: February 22, 2011, 11:06:37 PM »

Mike, I don't think you are understanding me.  I'm trying to encourage you to be more effective in what you are doing...not to stifle you.

I'm not suggesting that you would sell out to the NHB.

A petition that demands unspecified action gets the attention of legislators.  Legislators read the petition, and ask, "what should we do to make beekeepers (voters, supporters of agriculture) happy?"  The NHB is right there to answer, the USDA researchers are there to answer, xerces is there...you are not.

In no way do I think you (or anyone) should conform to any establishment (we certainly don't), or should wait for regional or national groups.

I think you should do what you want....but I think you would do better to formulate what you think should be done and by whom.

deknow
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T Beek
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« Reply #34 on: February 23, 2011, 06:16:24 AM »

Cascadebee said; you cant fight BIG AG with idealism and emotion.  Wanna bet? 

Where would we be if Big Ag had NO oposition?Huh

I've been fighting them for over 30 years, been attending sustainable farming workshops and the like for nearly 20 years.

I was an organic farmer BEFORE BIG AG stole the entire concept and corupted it for their own profits. (I no longer use the term when refering to my land)

I (and many like me) fight BIG AG every year we plant seeds that we saved ourselves.

Change happens because people make it or demand that it happen, not government or industry, people.

thomas
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« Reply #35 on: February 23, 2011, 06:41:35 AM »

We're getting off topic a bit here. I don't think this was posted as a political discussion.
Bjorn asked if you would help with his petition drive. he gave a link to the info.
 There was really probably two ways to do this. Help with the petition ,or not.
If nothing else ,it keeps the awareness out there. If we don't keep the information out front,it could soon be a forgotten cause.
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BjornBee
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« Reply #36 on: February 23, 2011, 07:20:44 AM »

Mike, I don't think you are understanding me.  I'm trying to encourage you to be more effective in what you are doing...not to stifle you.

I'm not suggesting that you would sell out to the NHB.

A petition that demands unspecified action gets the attention of legislators.  Legislators read the petition, and ask, "what should we do to make beekeepers (voters, supporters of agriculture) happy?"  The NHB is right there to answer, the USDA researchers are there to answer, xerces is there...you are not.

In no way do I think you (or anyone) should conform to any establishment (we certainly don't), or should wait for regional or national groups.

I think you should do what you want....but I think you would do better to formulate what you think should be done and by whom.

deknow

I understand.

And as long as they (the groups mentioned above) are the chosen few that actual do anything, promote themselves as the leaders, they will be exactly who they are. And we (the average beekeeper) will remain in the background, providing little more than lip service as cardboard cutouts with numbers that seemingly give tacit approval as seen by others.

I didn't go to a bunch of higher authorities of large national or commercial groups, which I certainly could of, and probably would of been an easier route in getting a petition up and running. I am pleading with the average beekeeper to give your support, get involved, and try to make a difference....while perhaps seeing the bigger picture and not getting bogged down with finer details of the effort.

But I see now trying to get beekeepers to sign a petition without needing to take into account each and every person out there and the way they would do it, is a task that to make this be a success...an effort with little chance of success.

Not clear enough, no facts to back up the statement, have not requested a concrete dollar figure, have not stated which chemicals should be banned, have not decided exactly what we may say to person who we may actually get a chance to talk too (whoever that may be), worried about other groups taking over......and it never stops.

You don't think this worthy....then don't sign the petition. You want to nitpick every detail...then don't sign the petition. But at this point, I have wasted enough time trying to appease some beekeepers, that until now has done little themselves except sit back and whine about things.

You know how it feels to take the time to make an effort such as this, and days later comments showing flaws of the effort (that could of been passed via PM) have been turned into bickering, turned into a discussion of how it will fail, and has cast a positive effort into something that thousands of beekeepers, as well as thousands of casual readers to this site, probably has them scratching their heads in amazement.

No doubt, whether a specific product to be banned was mentioned in the statement, a dollar figure, or any other specific demand, someone would of had a problem with it. I thought it was better to be general. I thought just doing a petition to be used by beekeepers as an educational tool, a petition to create some effect, a petition possibly supported by enough beekeepers and the public, to garner even a slight chance at a meeting in Washington, was the way to go. That it would not be limiting, or confined to details that could not be changed later. I see now that no matter the details, no matter the effort, that opening this up to the average beekeeper on this forum may of been a mistake.

Deknow...this is not directly at you. I understand what you are saying. And if I change this....someone has a problem with that. So I change it again...and new people have problems. And it never ends. If I ask 10 beekeepers to tell me how to do it....will I not get 11 replies. I just wish beekeepers could for once come together, understand that the next 9 guys standing next to them, all have different opinions, different ways of doing things. But that does not mean we all can't take a united step forward for a worthy cause. You think the beekeeper sitting on the fence that MIGHT of been inclined to get involved (even if it was to sign a petition which is not asking much)...may just rethink that approach after reading some of these over blown concerns? A real shame.
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« Reply #37 on: February 23, 2011, 07:22:24 AM »

We're getting off topic a bit here. I don't think this was posted as a political discussion.
Bjorn asked if you would help with his petition drive. he gave a link to the info.
 There was really probably two ways to do this. Help with the petition ,or not.
If nothing else ,it keeps the awareness out there. If we don't keep the information out front,it could soon be a forgotten cause.


Thank you buzzbee.

And thank you to DChoneybees, T beek, and all the other supportive comments.
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« Reply #38 on: February 23, 2011, 08:28:43 AM »

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I don't think this was posted as a political discussion.

Petitions are political in nature.  If you sensor the discussions you will loose the chance to convince an opponent to change their mind and join in.

Kathy, when global warming was first conceived as a bad thing people like you claimed there was no proof.  Today some of those people still exist and claim there is no proof.  To them the end of the world is their only proof.  If you want to wait until all the bees are gone you will have your proof.

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« Reply #39 on: February 23, 2011, 08:36:51 AM »

Kathy, when global warming was first conceived as a bad thing people like you claimed there was no proof.

And now the proof that the whole global warming fiasco is nothing more than BS, is coming out. So what's your point?
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