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Author Topic: sad story, but....(adult content?)  (Read 6657 times)
Vetch
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« Reply #60 on: February 18, 2011, 08:43:16 AM »

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You are in favor of pre-empting democracy and human rights, on the grounds that things might get worse

you have applied your prejudice against conservative views to what i have said.  i have applied my memory of how happy people (especially the left)  in the US were for the Iranian students in '79. 

Conservatives call me a liberal, and liberals call me a conservative. I am prejudiced against all political lenses when I think they distort the world, and in favor of them when they provide a useful understanding of the world.

Fear-mongering is the order of the day when it comes to interpreting events in the middle east among most conservatives in the US. Certainly, there is no guarantee that any uprising in Egypt or anywhere else will not be hijacked. Just as there is no guarantee that my firearms or your firearms will not be misused or stolen. Both types of things happen frequently.  But we should not shut down rights and institute gun control and preserve dictators and kings because "It might turn out bad if we don't!!" 


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kathyp
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« Reply #61 on: February 18, 2011, 10:20:43 AM »

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Fear-mongering is the order of the day when it comes to interpreting events in the middle east among most conservatives in the US. Certainly, there is no guarantee that any uprising in Egypt or anywhere else will not be hijacked. Just as there is no guarantee that my firearms or your firearms will not be misused or stolen. Both types of things happen frequently.  But we should not shut down rights and institute gun control and preserve dictators and kings because "It might turn out bad if we don't!!" 


agreed, but i think it is equally foolish not to game every possibility.  good results rarely require a response.
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.....The greatest changes occur in their country without their cooperation. They are not even aware of precisely what has taken place. They suspect it; they have heard of the event by chance. More than that, they are unconcerned with the fortunes of their village, the safety of their streets, the fate of their church and its vestry. They think that such things have nothing to do with them, that they belong to a powerful stranger called “the government.” They enjoy these goods as tenants, without a sense of ownership, and never give a thought to how they might be improved.....

 Alexis de Tocqueville
kingbee
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« Reply #62 on: February 18, 2011, 04:03:48 PM »



There is any number of good reasons that women should not be allowed within 10 miles of a military base and rape is not even among the top 100.

                                Reason 0ne:

Even though she may be willing, how many women are physically or mentally capable of exposing herself to enemy small arms fire in order to drag a wounded man (who may outweigh her by a 100 pounds or more) to the relative safety of cover using only the epaulets on her wounded comrade’s blouse?

If I were a man in an infantry combat unit with women I would think long and hard before I performed my duties to the best of my abilities if I though performing my duties might cause me to bleed to death while waiting for Amber or Tiffany to perform their duties and rescue or aid me, their comrade in arms.

This is troop moral 101.  "One for all and all for one!"
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Countryboy
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« Reply #63 on: February 18, 2011, 09:48:56 PM »

i was fortunate to grow up in a family where there was no distinction between genders in what we were expected to do.

Fortunate, or unfortunate?

Try going over to a muslim country, where there IS a definite distinction in gender.  Why do you think they have resorted to using women suicide bombers?

Because muslim men won't touch a non-family woman to search her for explosives...

In America, a mob of horny guys might sexually assault a girl.  In muslim countries, they won't touch a girl they don't know.

Of course, in muslim countries, it's also accepted as a cultural norm that a girl who dresses revealing or provocative is advertising her services too...

When in Rome, you do as Romans do.  I suspect Lara Logan thought she could export her foreign morals (or immorality, depending on how you look at it) to Egypt, without taking the time to think about 'doing as Romans do'.
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kathyp
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« Reply #64 on: February 18, 2011, 10:14:16 PM »

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In Muslim countries, they won't touch a girl they don't know.

depends on the country.  rape is very common and unreported in countries like Saudi Arabia.  there, a woman will not report rape because if she can't absolutely prove it, which usually involves producing a number of male witnesses, because she will be punished for having sex outside marriage.  the man will not be punished.

in a country like Egypt or others with more secular law, rape has been treated much as it is here. 

Quote
I suspect Lara Logan thought she could export her foreign morals (or immorality, depending on how you look at it) to Egypt, without taking the time to think about 'doing as Romans do'.


and you base this on what?  having seen some of her interviews, she was modestly dressed in a country that accepts western dress for it's women.  granted, i was surprised to see many women in Egypt choosing to be covered.  i think that's a bad sign, but it is not a required dress code for the country.  there were many other women there in jeans and shirts.

my upbringing was fortunate for me.  it has served me well as i never felt the need to compete based on gender, or play those games.  i don't see how the gender issues of another country have anything to do with my life here.
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.....The greatest changes occur in their country without their cooperation. They are not even aware of precisely what has taken place. They suspect it; they have heard of the event by chance. More than that, they are unconcerned with the fortunes of their village, the safety of their streets, the fate of their church and its vestry. They think that such things have nothing to do with them, that they belong to a powerful stranger called “the government.” They enjoy these goods as tenants, without a sense of ownership, and never give a thought to how they might be improved.....

 Alexis de Tocqueville
Brian D. Bray
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« Reply #65 on: February 19, 2011, 01:22:53 AM »

In days of old, when Knights were Bold
And Underwear was made of Tin,
For a Lady to go without a Chasity Belt
Was Considered quite a Sin.
When Old King Richard left upon the Crusades
His Knights put their wives upon Parade,
As if to Say with this here Key
This Woman must be True to Me.
Forgotten, beneath the spreading Chestnut Tree
The Village Smithy Stood
He Labored Night and Day
To set those Ladies Free.
And that's why we have So Many People
Named Smith Today.

Women in combat:  Issue each a Kevlar Chasity Belt and combination lock. 

Rape is about dominance and revenge not sex.
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Life is a school.  What have you learned?   Brian      The greatest danger to our society is apathy, vote in every election!
Countryboy
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« Reply #66 on: February 19, 2011, 08:37:50 PM »

and you base this on what?

A reputation for sleeping with anyone who she thinks can help her somehow.  'Whatever it takes' to get the extra edge on a story.
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kingbee
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« Reply #67 on: February 20, 2011, 04:35:52 AM »

... Try going ...to a muslim country... Why do you think they have resorted to using women suicide bombers?... Because muslim men won't touch a non-family woman to search her for explosives...


I must beg to differ with you.  For if your assertion is true then why did the Prophet Mohammad (may Allah bless the lice in the Prophet’s beard) feel it neciarry to tell his men not once, but twice, the correct way to conduct themselves while raping the wives and daughters of their fellow Arabs captured by Mohammad after he conquered the Holy city of Mecca in modern day Saud, Arabia?  Please, don’t take my poor infidel’s word for it, here it is straight from the Prophet Mohammad’s mouth.  He uttered these words while discussing the looming rape of Arab women in Book 8 Chapter 22 of the Holy Koran when the Prophet Mohammad in frustration told his followers “Just Do it! Do it! Do it!”  Kind of a kinky dude that Mohammad.
http://www.muhammadanism.org/Hadith/Topics/Adultery.htm

The only reason for a certain reluctance of some Arab men to rape captive women is to preserve the woman’s monetary value as a bargaining chit while her erstwhile rapist negotiates his ransom demands.  With modern birth control this economic consideration is reduced if not eliminated.  As for explosives, well how many concealed 82MM mortar rounds do you think one Taliban fighter can demolition cord together underneath his wife’s burka?  Have a good day.
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Vetch
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« Reply #68 on: February 20, 2011, 07:47:09 AM »

"When a man sells his daughter as a slave, she will not be freed at the end of six years as the men are.  If she does not please the man who bought her, he may allow her to be bought back again.  But he is not allowed to sell her to foreigners, since he is the one who broke the contract with her.  And if the slave girl's owner arranges for her to marry his son, he may no longer treat her as a slave girl, but he must treat her as his daughter.  If he himself marries her and then takes another wife, he may not reduce her food or clothing or fail to sleep with her as his wife.  If he fails in any of these three ways, she may leave as a free woman without making any payment" (Exodus 21:7-11 NLT)

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kathyp
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« Reply #69 on: February 20, 2011, 09:58:01 AM »

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A reputation for sleeping with anyone who she thinks can help her somehow.  'Whatever it takes' to get the extra edge on a story.

 i know there was a thing in Iraq, but there have been lots of things in Iraq, Afghanistan, etc.  people do have sex.  do you think that male journalists don't find someone to do it with?
i have no idea about her sleeping habits, but i would never judge someone by rumor.  no doubt we all have experience them, and most of the time they are based in something other than fact.  it is just as likely that some jealous male counterparts, not understanding how she got a good story, said "she must have slept with him for it!" and off we go...

Quote
"When a man sells his daughter as a slave, she will not be freed at the end of six years as the men are.  If she does not please the man who bought her, he may allow her to be bought back again.  But he is not allowed to sell her to foreigners, since he is the one who broke the contract with her.  And if the slave girl's owner arranges for her to marry his son, he may no longer treat her as a slave girl, but he must treat her as his daughter.  If he himself marries her and then takes another wife, he may not reduce her food or clothing or fail to sleep with her as his wife.  If he fails in any of these three ways, she may leave as a free woman without making any payment" (Exodus 21:7-11 NLT)


first, it's old testament.  second, who sells their daughters as slaves except Muslims?  third, if you are in a system that works this way, these rules seem like pretty good ones. and your point was?Huh
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.....The greatest changes occur in their country without their cooperation. They are not even aware of precisely what has taken place. They suspect it; they have heard of the event by chance. More than that, they are unconcerned with the fortunes of their village, the safety of their streets, the fate of their church and its vestry. They think that such things have nothing to do with them, that they belong to a powerful stranger called “the government.” They enjoy these goods as tenants, without a sense of ownership, and never give a thought to how they might be improved.....

 Alexis de Tocqueville
Vetch
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« Reply #70 on: February 20, 2011, 12:06:12 PM »

My point was that the scripture of all the major religions are filled with a wide variety of brutal laws, superstitions, and clap-trap.  Quoting and misquoting scripture in an attempt to define the nature of a religious group (as Kingbee did) is a good way to generate Fail - it doesn't work on today's Jews, Christians, or Muslims. Every group and subgroup selects, interprets, and implements some things, while they ignore other things. Faulty generalization is a rather poor way to understand others.
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kathyp
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« Reply #71 on: February 20, 2011, 01:12:00 PM »

however, when you have people taking a teaching, religious or not, and using to justify destructive behavior, it's worth understanding where that behavior gets it's justification.  we would not think it was ok if Jews were selling their daughters into slavery.  neither should we think it's ok if some Muslims are using their teaching to justify terrorism.  much of what the jihadist follow is not in the Koran, but in the Hadith and in the odd fatwa spewed out by radical imams.

we ignore what they believe and why they believe it at our own peril....as do the people of Muslim countries.  at the moment, they are the ones most at risk from radical teachings.
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.....The greatest changes occur in their country without their cooperation. They are not even aware of precisely what has taken place. They suspect it; they have heard of the event by chance. More than that, they are unconcerned with the fortunes of their village, the safety of their streets, the fate of their church and its vestry. They think that such things have nothing to do with them, that they belong to a powerful stranger called “the government.” They enjoy these goods as tenants, without a sense of ownership, and never give a thought to how they might be improved.....

 Alexis de Tocqueville
Vetch
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« Reply #72 on: February 21, 2011, 05:17:53 PM »

Yes, I agree that they have the most to lose, both from keeping their current governments and from overthrowing them and putting a new one in place.

Women had inferior status (sometimes mere property) from the beginning of Judaism. The only way that we see a high degree of equality for women in Israel today is from an enlightenment that moved them away from a literalist/fundamentalist view of their scriptures. And even today, there are Jewish fundamentalists who decline to participate in that movement, who have organized campaigns to harass and beat women who are deemed to be dressed improperly in some neighborhoods of Jerusalem. Certainly, that is less common than in some of the Islamic countries, but I think modernization/urbanization is the biggest factor.

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skatesailor
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« Reply #73 on: February 24, 2011, 09:03:27 PM »

http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2011/02/15/60minutes/main20032070.shtml?tag=exclsv

.  we are already going to put them on subs.  understanding that the above is a fact, i can't help but wonder about the wisdom of putting more women out there so that more can be violated....and more mens careers tossed in the tank.

more guys than girls on here.  thoughts?


Follow Navy Times online for a month and see how many officers and senior enlisted are relieved for either engaging in or allowing fratenization between the sexes. 2010 saw a record number of COs relieved and in one instance 5 senior males were relieved from one command. These were not rapes but the result of raging hormones and opportunity.
Concerning women on subs this is wrong in so many ways, sex not being one of them. At sea people need to be very creative to get away with sex on a sub. Tied up along the pier, it will happen and careers will suffer. I'm talking about casual sex. I do bristle at those here who imply that soldiers and sailors in todays forces would resort to rape and pillage upon vanquishing the enemy. Our military does not operate that way.
What is so wrong with women on subs. A sub is already in a periolous state when operating. In a casualty every second counts. I know of few women with upper body strength to shut a 300 lb watertight door at a 30 degree downbubble. Seconds count.
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kathyp
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« Reply #74 on: February 24, 2011, 09:53:52 PM »

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I'm talking about casual sex. I do bristle at those here who imply that soldiers and sailors in todays forces would resort to rape and pillage upon vanquishing the enemy. Our military does not operate that way.

guess i missed that part.  you are correct, our military would not sanction such behavior.  that does not mean that it does not happen.  i also agree that women should not be on subs.  i don't think they should be on ships our in combat either.  many of the same reasons apply, sex being only one.
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.....The greatest changes occur in their country without their cooperation. They are not even aware of precisely what has taken place. They suspect it; they have heard of the event by chance. More than that, they are unconcerned with the fortunes of their village, the safety of their streets, the fate of their church and its vestry. They think that such things have nothing to do with them, that they belong to a powerful stranger called “the government.” They enjoy these goods as tenants, without a sense of ownership, and never give a thought to how they might be improved.....

 Alexis de Tocqueville
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« Reply #75 on: February 27, 2011, 01:45:08 PM »

Get access to a current copy of VFW magazine. There is an article  " Women in the War Zone, Present and Past". Female Purple Heart recipients WW II 100, Korea 3 ,VN 10, Persian Gulf 6, Iraq/Astan 741. Something changed.  Also a quote from one woman "By the time all the planes landed it was me and 900 men, but nobody bothered me."
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