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Author Topic: sad story, but....(adult content?)  (Read 6197 times)
kathyp
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« on: February 15, 2011, 04:58:16 PM »

http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2011/02/15/60minutes/main20032070.shtml?tag=exclsv

some military women are suing because they were raped and the military did not take them seriously.  i don't know the circumstances of their allegations or the merits, but it reminded me of something.
i took one of those warfare classes once and the the subject of war and sex came up.  the two seem to go hand in hand.  it's not just about the spoils of war, or terrorizing a population.  even when it's consensual, men and some women seem to go into overdrive when there is extreme stress or in the aftermath of extreme stress.

not a shrink.  don't pretend to understand the mechanism involved, but we are again talking about putting women on the front lines.  we are already going to put them on subs.  understanding that the above is a fact, i can't help but wonder about the wisdom of putting more women out there so that more can be violated....and more mens careers tossed in the tank.

more guys than girls on here.  thoughts?
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.....The greatest changes occur in their country without their cooperation. They are not even aware of precisely what has taken place. They suspect it; they have heard of the event by chance. More than that, they are unconcerned with the fortunes of their village, the safety of their streets, the fate of their church and its vestry. They think that such things have nothing to do with them, that they belong to a powerful stranger called “the government.” They enjoy these goods as tenants, without a sense of ownership, and never give a thought to how they might be improved.....

 Alexis de Tocqueville
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« Reply #1 on: February 15, 2011, 06:17:50 PM »

The article that came up was a reporter being sexually assaulted in Egypt. I don't think that was the one you intended.

Way back when women wanted to go to war along side the men I knew there would be problems with being raped. I was thinking more of them being prisoners of war and used as sex slaves.

I just figured they had thought of this and were ready to take what ever was dished out. As far as a US soldier raping a US soldier one would have to think it would happen. After all there are all types in the military as there are in the civilian world.
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« Reply #2 on: February 15, 2011, 06:20:50 PM »

I found it....

... Try this link

http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2011/02/15/national/main20031948.shtml
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« Reply #3 on: February 15, 2011, 06:33:34 PM »

I do not know what to say as I have never been in the situation mentioned. But if the crimes did indeed happen then it seems to me the rest of the unit would know what happened. And if the rest of the guys stand behind the attacker then they are no better than he is. If there is no "legal" action taken then I think the guys in the unit should make life miserable for the perpetrator until he confesses his crime. And I don't mean just saying "Yes I had sex with her." He need to admit to raping her.

But I am thinking that in most cases it is one word against another. And the most convincing story is believed. After all there are many stories from school kids to old folks that have cried wolf. I seem to remember hearing about a guy that spent many years in jail for raping a school girl. Only later did she admit to making it up because she hated the teacher.
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kathyp
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« Reply #4 on: February 15, 2011, 07:36:15 PM »

Quote
The article that came up was a reporter being sexually assaulted in Egypt. I don't think that was the one you intended.

it was the article i intended because i think the same dynamics are involved.
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.....The greatest changes occur in their country without their cooperation. They are not even aware of precisely what has taken place. They suspect it; they have heard of the event by chance. More than that, they are unconcerned with the fortunes of their village, the safety of their streets, the fate of their church and its vestry. They think that such things have nothing to do with them, that they belong to a powerful stranger called “the government.” They enjoy these goods as tenants, without a sense of ownership, and never give a thought to how they might be improved.....

 Alexis de Tocqueville
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« Reply #5 on: February 15, 2011, 08:11:17 PM »

Take a look at this one.....


Wis. woman says she was held in NYC as sex slave

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/us_craigslist_sex_charge
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hardwood
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« Reply #6 on: February 15, 2011, 08:18:23 PM »

That's how I landed Peggy grin

Scott
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« Reply #7 on: February 15, 2011, 08:51:07 PM »

you guys are not helping me  grin

we know normal guys do not rape.  we know rape is not about sex.  however, intense events seem to lead some (many?) otherwise normal guys to do it.  if this is true, and history seems to point to it being true, why do we put women in the path of this? 

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.....The greatest changes occur in their country without their cooperation. They are not even aware of precisely what has taken place. They suspect it; they have heard of the event by chance. More than that, they are unconcerned with the fortunes of their village, the safety of their streets, the fate of their church and its vestry. They think that such things have nothing to do with them, that they belong to a powerful stranger called “the government.” They enjoy these goods as tenants, without a sense of ownership, and never give a thought to how they might be improved.....

 Alexis de Tocqueville
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« Reply #8 on: February 15, 2011, 09:11:03 PM »

What you say is true, but WE don't put them there. They kick and scream until we allow them to put themselves there.

If I didn't want to be eaten by alligators, I would stay out of the swamp.

Not excusing the men, as there are bad guys everywhere, but
most ladies try to stay out of dangerous places.
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« Reply #9 on: February 15, 2011, 09:16:15 PM »

As usual Kathy, the answer is Political Correctness. You have to admit that "some" women have been agitating for combat roles for women for a long time. The squeaky wheel gets the oil. The libs in Wash. will go to any end to further their stay in D.C. at the taxpayers expense, and to promote any liberal cause. As far as the NYC post, why in Heaven would any sane woman make living arrangements with a strange man on the internet? And why would she stay there when she was allowed out and could have escaped? Baffling!
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hardwood
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« Reply #10 on: February 15, 2011, 09:27:20 PM »

I think you just stumbled on use # 1002 for duct tape grin

(Sorry...baaaadd joke)

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"In the first place, we should insist that if the immigrant who comes here in good faith becomes an American and assimilates himself to us, he shall be treated on an exact equality with everyone else, for it is an outrage to discriminate against any such man because of creed, or birthplace, or origin. But this is predicated upon the person's becoming in every facet an American, and nothing but an American...There can be no divided allegiance here. Any man who says he is an American, but something else also, isn't an American at all. We have room for but one flag, the American flag...We have room for but one language here, and that is the English language...And we have room for but one sole loyalty and that is a loyalty to the American people."

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kathyp
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« Reply #11 on: February 15, 2011, 09:28:50 PM »

Quote
most ladies try to stay out of dangerous places.

really  grin

Quote
You have to admit that "some" women have been agitating for combat roles for women for a long time

they do, and i have to admit, i would have been all for it when i was in.  i chose a specialty that was a front line specialty and was disappointed when they would not assign me to a permanent unit.  that said, my motivation was not to prove something.  i never gave the gender thing any thought.  it was just something i wanted to do because i like a challenge.  but then....i am not often accused of being a lady.   evil

i am not excusing the behavior of men who rape but i can't help but wonder if this compulsion after an adrenalin rush is normal.  we wouldn't want to accept that and i'm sure no legal system would take this as an excuse.  just wondering if those who make these decisions shouldn't recognize the issue....and that would include news agencies.
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.....The greatest changes occur in their country without their cooperation. They are not even aware of precisely what has taken place. They suspect it; they have heard of the event by chance. More than that, they are unconcerned with the fortunes of their village, the safety of their streets, the fate of their church and its vestry. They think that such things have nothing to do with them, that they belong to a powerful stranger called “the government.” They enjoy these goods as tenants, without a sense of ownership, and never give a thought to how they might be improved.....

 Alexis de Tocqueville
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« Reply #12 on: February 15, 2011, 09:39:55 PM »

Quote
most ladies try to stay out of dangerous places.

"really"

Take notice, I said ladies. I did not say women.

Yes, I have known men to die in combat from acts they would never do in normal times.

IE: A veteran fire fighter stood up after wiping out a machinegun nest, and hollered "I got'em. I got'em. They were the last words he ever spoke.
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« Reply #13 on: February 15, 2011, 09:52:54 PM »

In my opinion women shouldn't be on the frount lines.  Rape would be one of the cercerns but honestly i think my opinion comes from the fact i would probably be able to leave another man behind then a woman.  Guess i may be a gentleman is why i feel this way nothing about the ladies by any means about them being capabile.
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« Reply #14 on: February 15, 2011, 10:22:25 PM »


we know normal guys do not rape.  we know rape is not about sex. 


WHAT!!!! Who ever said that?

Of course rape is about sex  rolleyes
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Jerrymac
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« Reply #15 on: February 15, 2011, 10:27:12 PM »

What you say is true, but WE don't put them there. They kick and scream until we allow them to put themselves there.

I was going to say the same thing.

Stats a few years ago was something like one in five women are raped every year. So by those stats in five years every woman should have suffered the fate.

And yet they are always placing themselves in the line of fire.... oh sorry.

They make us wear seat belts to protect us "IN CASE WE HAVE AN ACCIDENT" perhaps women should be required to roam in packs for protection.
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« Reply #16 on: February 16, 2011, 06:43:35 AM »

As for the reporter in Egypt.....Incredibly stupid and naive. I have been to three countries overseas where I have seen myself the mob mentality and what happens to women caught in the middle. I have also seen this type thing happen in places such as France while partying for New Years, and Octoberfest in Germany. Young men would corner an unsuspecting girl and within seconds have her panties ripped off and ten guy would get a feel. Then they would run off and corner another girl down the street. Some of it got nasty.

And for the record, this type thing happened all day long in New York City, with cops standing all around, just a few years ago.

I think for some women, this Utopian liberal mindset of how they view the world, is far different than the real world when they actually go out into it. That reporter either never left Kansas, or she is stupid.

As a military vet myself...I think the military is a place with high testosterone, high alcohol use, high divorce, and high problems. I don't even think it's a place for married couples with families in many ways. The culture and the stress all add to the problems. Keep women out of combat units and out of the front lines. Enough happens back at base when the unit is not deployed. And it only gets worse in the field.
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« Reply #17 on: February 16, 2011, 07:42:42 AM »

I think the core issue is more a strict enforcement and punishment. I can't honestly speak about women in direct combat; but some of our absolutely best assets used femininity as an excellent camouflage, seduction for intelligence gathering and assassination. Women have a very valuable place in war.
having said that I don't believe that we would be doing any kind of right to tell women "If you don't want to get raped, don't go places where lots of excited, lonely men are." with the exception of prisons, there should be some kind of assumed trust given and swift and harsh punishments for people who do break that trust.
bottom line I think self control outweighs any judgement over who belongs where at all times.
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« Reply #18 on: February 16, 2011, 08:05:07 AM »

Try telling that to the mob in Egypt.

Then perhaps reconsider telling the news station that perhaps they should not send female reporters to the middle of a mob. You may not like it, but that is the best advice.

Unfortunately, some just see the world as it should be, and not as it really is. I bet that reporter may think twice. And I bet she will not be standing up saying "I want to do that again...after all it's my right!".

Go for it lady. You apparently have a few pushing you along to make your point.  Wink

Next, someone will be telling me they think it would be a good idea to hitchhike near the border in Iran, stand on the corner in Tehran and write cartoons of Allah, or go to Harlem and start calling people monkeys...while citing your belief that you have a right to do these things.

I have no problem suggesting that women should not go to the square in Egypt in the middle of a near riot , or sit alone on a park bench at 3 in the morning in central park.

You have it backwards....good judgement outweighs the self control of others. I trust my judgement much further than the idea that others will have better self control.

Those that stroll through life thinking they have a right to not be violated by others, while taking no precautions or measures of security, usually gets educated very quickly. That, or they never leave Kansas....  rolleyes
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« Reply #19 on: February 16, 2011, 08:30:17 AM »

""Next, someone will be telling me they think it would be a good idea to hitchhike near the border in Iran, stand on the corner in Tehran and write cartoons of Allah, or go to Harlem and start calling people monkeys...while citing your belief that you have a right to do these things.

I have no problem suggesting that women should not go to the square in Egypt in the middle of a near riot , or sit alone on a park bench at 3 in the morning in central park
.""

Good post. Sometimes common sense is totally lacking in peoples actions.
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