Need Bees Removed?
International
Beekeeping Forums
September 01, 2014, 05:59:40 PM *
Welcome, Guest. Please login or register.
Did you miss your activation email?

Login with username, password and session length
News: 24/7 Ventrilo Voice chat -click for instructions and free software here
 
   Home   Help Search Calendar bee removal Login Register Chat  

Pages: [1]   Go Down
  Print  
Author Topic: Foundationless Big/Small Cells  (Read 602 times)
salvo
House Bee
**
Offline Offline

Posts: 60

Location: Commonwealth of Massachusetts


« on: February 20, 2011, 11:01:14 PM »

Hi Y'all,

I’m going to be a new beekeeper this spring. I want to have foundationless frames for many reasons, including one that I read regarding the smaller size of these cells, and the effect a smaller cell size has on Varroa. However, during a conversation, I was told that bees that I will get are “larger” bees due to the fact that they are products of large cell comb. These larger bees will build cells of the size they have come from,…large cells, due to the size of their own bodies.

Can someone clue me in on this phenomenon? Must I “start” my new bees on small cell foundation and wait for several generations of bees to become smaller? Should the first two or three boxes be loaded with small cell foundation? When can I go foundationless and get small cells?

Thanks,

Salvo
Logged

Salvo
Michael Bush
Universal Bee
*******
Offline Offline

Gender: Male
Posts: 13626


Location: Nehawka, NE


WWW
« Reply #1 on: February 20, 2011, 11:35:47 PM »

>during a conversation, I was told that bees that I will get are “larger” bees due to the fact that they are products of large cell comb. These larger bees will build cells of the size they have come from,…large cells, due to the size of their own bodies.

Sort of.  They will tend to build larger cells than they would have if they were smaller bees.  However they will build smaller cells than they would have  if they had large cell foundation.  So what you will most likely get is something between large cell and natural cell size.

>Can someone clue me in on this phenomenon?

http://bushfarms.com/beesnaturalcell.htm#whatisregression

>Must I “start” my new bees on small cell foundation and wait for several generations of bees to become smaller?

Generations of bees will make little difference.  Turnovers of comb (which requires you to remove the larger comb) is what will get them smaller over time.  Comb tends to stay for a long time and the minuscule amount that cells shrink from cocoon buildup is not going to make them smaller any time soon.

> Should the first two or three boxes be loaded with small cell foundation?

Even WITH small cell foundation, they will likely not draw small cell.  In my experience the PF100s (deeps) and PF120s (mediums) from Mann Lake get drawn 4.95mm every time.  But the 4.9mm wax foundation will likely get drawn 5.1mm or so even if it's 4.9mm foundation.  It's your choice what you want to use.  Another option is Honey Super Cell ( www.honeysupercell.com )

> When can I go foundationless and get small cells?

Anytime you'll get smaller cells.

http://bushfarms.com/beesnaturalcell.htm#howtogetsmall
Logged

Michael Bush
My website:  bushfarms.com/bees.htm
My book:  ThePracticalBeekeeper.com
-------------------
"Everything works if you let it."--Rick Nielsen
salvo
House Bee
**
Offline Offline

Posts: 60

Location: Commonwealth of Massachusetts


« Reply #2 on: February 21, 2011, 04:42:10 PM »

MB,

Lots of talk elsewhere today on this subject. I've read a lot. Six of one,...half dozen of the other.

I'm going foundationless. The bees will make what they need. I'll learn to cut out the least desireable comb as I am able. I'll also do as much as I can to maximize unfavorable conditions for mites.

Thanks for your information.

Salvo

Logged

Salvo
Pages: [1]   Go Up
  Print  
 
Jump to:  

Beemaster's Beekeeping Ring
Previous | Home | Join | Random | Next
Powered by MySQL Powered by PHP Powered by SMF 1.1.19 | SMF © 2013, Simple Machines | Sitemap Valid XHTML 1.0! Valid CSS!
Page created in 0.408 seconds with 22 queries.

Google visited last this page August 09, 2014, 03:07:34 AM