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Author Topic: Forced Inspections???  (Read 9788 times)
iddee
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« Reply #20 on: February 08, 2011, 10:38:39 PM »

A few hives from my backyard, no permit nor inspection needed. I can sell 10 hives each year with no problem. If someone is selling 600 nucs and 900 packages within my state yearly, I would like to know they had been inspected and disease free before they were spread statewide.
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"Listen to the mustn'ts, child. Listen to the don'ts. Listen to the shouldn'ts, the impossibles, the won'ts. Listen to the never haves, then listen close to me . . . Anything can happen, child. Anything can be"

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« Reply #21 on: February 08, 2011, 10:42:38 PM »

kathyp - You make an excellent point in favor of being registered so you could be informed of pending known danger to your bees like spraying.  That is something to consider.  I just wonder how efficient a government agency would be at informing me when you take into consideration what all they would have to keep up with.  There is no spraying in my area either, but I can see how that would be a concern for some.

I don't want everyone to think that I am completely against these types of programs either.  Here on my farm, which is a fairly decent acreage, I wholeheartedly take part in and fully support Virginia Techs study on the gypsy moth and its impact on our forestlands.  I'm not a hardnose at all about this sort of thing.  I see it as something I can do to help save our trees.  Here's the funny part though....  

The person that comes down to check the traps is always different and doesn't know where the traps are so I have to show them.  They didn't know how to identify the different types of trees with accuracy.  I had to show them the proper trees to hang the traps in.  Many times they haven't even shown up on their scheduled days.  I call to see if they have rescheduled because I always escort anyone onto my property.  

This is what I am referring to when I say government is inept at performing its duties.  
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iddee
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« Reply #22 on: February 08, 2011, 10:51:02 PM »

>>>>This is what I am referring to when I say government is inept at performing its duties.<<<<

Now see there, we can agree on something.  grin
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"Listen to the mustn'ts, child. Listen to the don'ts. Listen to the shouldn'ts, the impossibles, the won'ts. Listen to the never haves, then listen close to me . . . Anything can happen, child. Anything can be"

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Vetch
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« Reply #23 on: February 08, 2011, 11:01:14 PM »

In Florida, the inspector is on the look-out to see if the bees in a hive have been Africanized, and can demand re-queening or other corrective measures if the bees show signs of it.

That won't stop the spread of the African bee, but it can prevent other problems. And I don't think that liability insurance (either on a apiary business or private home with a few hives) will pay damages if a person was keeping bees in violation of the law and someone gets hurt.  Beeks in the city or suburbs need to be mindful that most people have zero understanding of bees, while many have an irrational fear of bees. If people know that you keep bees, they might blame you for any and all stings they get, even when they are the fool to blame, even when it was not a bee that stung them. Being able to show that your hives were inspected each year and that you were mindful of the law is important for urban/suburban beeks and for those who engage in beekeeping as a business - like it or not, the bar is higher for people in those groups.

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HBW1412
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« Reply #24 on: February 08, 2011, 11:14:54 PM »

Vetch - That's exactly why I'm a strong supporter of tort reform. 

I wonder how all those Africans have managed to crawl into the heart of an "Africanized" colony and take the honey from them with no bee suit for thousands of years?  I've never figured that one out.  I'm not yet convinced that the Africanized bee is anything more than a hyped-up thing  for Universities to be able to squeeze more funding out of us taxpayers for "research", but that's another post.   Lips Sealed
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kathyp
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« Reply #25 on: February 08, 2011, 11:22:20 PM »

you may want to join us in the coffee house one of these days.   grin
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.....The greatest changes occur in their country without their cooperation. They are not even aware of precisely what has taken place. They suspect it; they have heard of the event by chance. More than that, they are unconcerned with the fortunes of their village, the safety of their streets, the fate of their church and its vestry. They think that such things have nothing to do with them, that they belong to a powerful stranger called “the government.” They enjoy these goods as tenants, without a sense of ownership, and never give a thought to how they might be improved.....

 Alexis de Tocqueville
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« Reply #26 on: February 08, 2011, 11:30:05 PM »

kathyp - I have to admit that I didn't know what you were referring too when I read your post.  I'm glad I searched for it though.  The coffee house looks to have some very interesting conversations going on.  Thanks. 
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WPG
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« Reply #27 on: February 09, 2011, 12:39:30 AM »

... fully support Virginia Techs study on the gypsy moth and its impact on our forestlands.
This is what I am referring to when I say government is inept at performing its duties.  

The state ext. has sent me those traps and I put them out myself etc.

Sounds like a bunch of students trying to get extra credit, not government hacks.

Our Bee Law used to require the sprayer notify the beek at least 36 hrs ahead. (Lucky to get 12). The out of state guys had a hard time with it so we just changed it a couple years ago.

Now the sprayer can't spray within 1 mile of a registered hive between the hours of 8am and 6pm.
The state keeps the list and registers the sprayer also.
That's it.
 A web site, updated by 1st of each month.
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Brian D. Bray
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« Reply #28 on: February 09, 2011, 01:31:47 AM »

The 1st State Bee Inspector I ever met hated kids and got me stung 379 times. 

The last 1 I saw made the comment he didn't like the way I was keeping my bees.  I told him he might not lilke it but the bees seemed to as I was getting about 300 lbs of honey per hive at the time.

The the State decided to axe unnessary positions, we haven't had an active bee inspector in Washington in over 20 years. 

The registration and inspection laws were not changed when the state did away with the inspectors.  Here in Washington the law states that every beekeeper or apiarist must register each and every hive they have on 1 April of each year and their exact locatiion for the purposes of inspection.  Inpsectors can go onto any property that has a bee hive for the purposes of inspecting the health of the hive and determining if AFB is present.  Hives found to be infected with AFB must be destroyed by burning of all components within 3 days of notice of contamination by the inspector or the state inspector can destroy every hive in any give apiary, at the owners expense, to insure that AFB is not transmitted to other bee hives.

We haven't had any noticable outbreak of AFB in Washington since the late 1960's which is probably the main reason we no longer fund inspectors.


AFB is why Bee are required to be registered for inspection and why Lanstroth hives were legislated by the the many states.   Prior to WWII there used to be plagues of AFB that would decimate as much as 90% of the bees in a given state or area.   Those AFB Plagues make CCD look like a Sunday walk in the park.

The last bit was what my mentor had to say about why bee inspections when explaining the process to me over 50 years ago.  He lived through much of it, having started beekeeping in the 1890"s.  One of the reasons he moved to Western Washington was because it was one of the areas in the USA with the fewest AFB outbreacks and he could earn a living as a barber just about anywhere.
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Michael Bush
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« Reply #29 on: February 09, 2011, 04:54:31 AM »

Nebraska scrapped it's registration and inspection laws about a decade ago.  But I PAY to have them inspected so I can sell queens and they have a very knowledgeable and capable guy come do that.  I was a bit concerned the first time and made sure i was there as I have a lot of foundationless frames which you have to not turn sideways if they are being newly drawn, and several top bar hives, with the same issues plus that they aren't very standard, but he did fine after I explained all of that, and he has inspected without me there every year since, which is fine.  The previous inspector was also a very knowledgeable and helpful guy.  But I have heard other stories from others.

Interestingly enough, now that inspections aren't required and I have to pay for them I have mine inspected every year.  Before that I never had them inspected and never registered them because I was afraid they would force me to treat them, which I was not going to do...
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Michael Bush
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HBW1412
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« Reply #30 on: February 09, 2011, 09:16:29 AM »

Michael Bush - You now CHOOSE to have an inspector come out and I completely support someones right to do so.  I have the same concern you did in regards to being forced to treat with chemicals and/or medications.  If it turns out that I can CHOOSE to have an inspection with nothing more than suggestions on how to do things differently I may pay someone myself to inspect my hives.  If the government says I MUST be inspected then I want nothing to do them.  I don't deal well with tyrants.

Brian D. Bray - When your state finds AFB and then says you have to burn that hive I feel that is already going beyond their Constitutional authority.  They should ONLY inform you of their findings and what the customary solution is, which would be to burn the hive.  You would then already know what to do on your own, there would be no need for a threatening law.  However, when the government says your AFB infested hive MUST be burned and if you don't do as we say then we'll come in and burn every hive you have, everyone reading this should have a SERIOUS problem with that.  Then on top of that tyrannical law, you are forced to pay for it.

WE THE PEOPLE have given away our power to the government far to freely for far too long.

Lets say you have 200 hives.  What if an inspector found AFB in only 3 hives in your apiary and on your way to burn those three hives you have a heart attack?  You would go into the hospital for several days.  When you got back home you go to check those three hives and burn them, but when you come around the corner you are devastated because the STATE came in and burned the other 197 healthy hives. 
If you are lucky enough not to have another heart attack and die right then and there you'd probably go call the police.  Of course the police would be aware of the burning because they would have been the ones to carry it out.  They tell you they were following the law and you could do nothing about it.  Now how would that feel?  All because of a FORCED inspection.
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Vetch
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« Reply #31 on: February 09, 2011, 10:37:33 AM »

Vetch - That's exactly why I'm a strong supporter of tort reform. 

Problems are 1) tort reform is not here, and 2) Regardless of tort reform, if a person doesn't comply with the regulations, they are going to appear bad.  Judges are not beeks, the jury probably know nothing about bees. There is no way to use tort reform to legislate protection against every possible way that the process could go wrong, one can't legislate common sense into a jury. We are stuck with the idea of a jury, and that creature might be reasonable or might be idiotic. Beekeepers need to conduct themselves in a way that is responsible and proper and appears to be responsible and proper.  If there is any question of public safety, skipping required inspections on principal won't look good, regardless of whether it is relevant or not.


I'm not yet convinced that the Africanized bee is anything more than a hyped-up thing  for Universities to be able to squeeze more funding out of us taxpayers for "research", but that's another post.   Lips Sealed

Well, everything I have read about their spread through central America indicates that they are more aggressive, have a larger alarm zone and more guard bees than traditional strains of bees. Also, more likely to swarm, abscond, or do other things to frustrate their tender. They are headed your way, you can be the judge when they get there. Most people think they will move as far north as the Chesapeake region, I suspect if they hybridize, they will go even farther (though I hope not).
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VolunteerK9
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« Reply #32 on: February 09, 2011, 12:24:20 PM »




Lets say you have 200 hives.  What if an inspector found AFB in only 3 hives in your apiary and on your way to burn those three hives you have a heart attack?  You would go into the hospital for several days.  When you got back home you go to check those three hives and burn them, but when you come around the corner you are devastated because the STATE came in and burned the other 197 healthy hives. 
If you are lucky enough not to have another heart attack and die right then and there you'd probably go call the police.  Of course the police would be aware of the burning because they would have been the ones to carry it out.  They tell you they were following the law and you could do nothing about it.  Now how would that feel?  All because of a FORCED inspection.

Geez...

What if while on your way to get a match to burn your AFB hives you tripped over your dog and banged your head and then wrecked on the way to the E.R and the cop that showed up had just burned some more hives and and and..

I think your getting a little over zealous on the ant-government tirade. If you dont want to register then don't. I don't think anyone will execute a search warrant on your property to force you to do so.  You can 'what if' anything to death and it will not solve anything.

I registered mine voluntarily. In doing that, I am supposed to be notified of an AFB occurrence in my area as well as any potential spraying. If they notify me, great if not then oh well. Nothing ever works perfectly and I wouldn't expect any operation that takes the lowest bid on everything that they do, to be either. But if you ever find that tax free, easy go lucky government called Utopia, let me know.

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sterling
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« Reply #33 on: February 09, 2011, 01:03:50 PM »

I also register my hives voluntarly. The state inspector in our area is a very nice and knowlegeable bee guy. His purpose is not to condem our hives but to protect all the hives in TN. If he sees something wrong then some kinda action should be taken. Last year AFB was found in a location in his area and some hives had to be burned but the action was taken to protect other hives from contamination.  rolleyes
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KD4MOJ
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« Reply #34 on: February 09, 2011, 01:05:23 PM »

I have noticed that many of you speak about getting your hives inspected by a certified state apiarist. 
Why do you have this done?
Is there a law that states that I must have my hives inspected in order to legally own them?


  It's the law in Florida, yearly inspections. Checking for mites and mainly to prevent the spread of AFB. If they find it, they will burn your hives on-site.

  Good thing is, those inspectors are on your side. Always a pleasant experience and most of them are a plethora of knowledge. My ONLY gripe is, the 'state' seems to push chemical treatments and feeding.

 Here is some reading on the Florida requirements.

...DOUG
KD4MOJ

 
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HBW1412
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« Reply #35 on: February 09, 2011, 01:28:27 PM »

Some of you may mock my "what if" scenario concerning the forced burning of hives and our freedoms being trampled upon.  You would be correct in saying that this situation has probably never occurred, but there are examples of big government telling us little people what's good for us.

An example of this would be the man in Atlanta, Georgia that was fined $5000.00 for GIVING his neighbors vegetables from his organic vegetable garden.  This happened last year.  His garden wasn't inspected.  No one got sick.  His neighbors were grateful.  The government says he wasn't "zoned" for such a thing.  Are you kidding me?  This is the nanny state I am referring too.  What have we allowed our country to become?

If the government is allowed to prevent an outstanding citizen from growing food for others to help cut down on their food costs they can come up with rules and regulations that would destroy bee keeping as we know it.  Give an inch and they will take a thousand miles.  So, go ahead.  Mock my "what if" scenario.  It is coming and the signs are all around us.

 
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Cascadebee
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« Reply #36 on: February 09, 2011, 01:46:30 PM »




Lets say you have 200 hives.  What if an inspector found AFB in only 3 hives in your apiary and on your way to burn those three hives you have a heart attack?  You would go into the hospital for several days.  When you got back home you go to check those three hives and burn them, but when you come around the corner you are devastated because the STATE came in and burned the other 197 healthy hives. 
If you are lucky enough not to have another heart attack and die right then and there you'd probably go call the police.  Of course the police would be aware of the burning because they would have been the ones to carry it out.  They tell you they were following the law and you could do nothing about it.  Now how would that feel?  All because of a FORCED inspection.

Geez...

What if while on your way to get a match to burn your AFB hives you tripped over your dog and banged your head and then wrecked on the way to the E.R and the cop that showed up had just burned some more hives and and and..

I think your getting a little over zealous on the ant-government tirade. If you dont want to register then don't. I don't think anyone will execute a search warrant on your property to force you to do so.  You can 'what if' anything to death and it will not solve anything.

I registered mine voluntarily. In doing that, I am supposed to be notified of an AFB occurrence in my area as well as any potential spraying. If they notify me, great if not then oh well. Nothing ever works perfectly and I wouldn't expect any operation that takes the lowest bid on everything that they do, to be either. But if you ever find that tax free, easy go lucky government called Utopia, let me know.



Agreed.  We get it, you don't like the government.  You now know that they're not forcing you to be inspected. NEXT.
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iddee
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« Reply #37 on: February 09, 2011, 07:24:47 PM »

An example of this would be the man in Atlanta, Georgia that was fined $5000.00 for GIVING his neighbors vegetables from his organic vegetable garden.

Show me a link. I want to know the "rest of the story". I'll never believe that is all there was to the case.
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"Listen to the mustn'ts, child. Listen to the don'ts. Listen to the shouldn'ts, the impossibles, the won'ts. Listen to the never haves, then listen close to me . . . Anything can happen, child. Anything can be"

*Shel Silverstein*
kathyp
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« Reply #38 on: February 09, 2011, 08:07:36 PM »

http://www.aolnews.com/2010/09/15/cabbagegate-ga-man-fined-5k-for-home-garden/
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.....The greatest changes occur in their country without their cooperation. They are not even aware of precisely what has taken place. They suspect it; they have heard of the event by chance. More than that, they are unconcerned with the fortunes of their village, the safety of their streets, the fate of their church and its vestry. They think that such things have nothing to do with them, that they belong to a powerful stranger called “the government.” They enjoy these goods as tenants, without a sense of ownership, and never give a thought to how they might be improved.....

 Alexis de Tocqueville
kathyp
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« Reply #39 on: February 09, 2011, 08:10:50 PM »

Quote
Agreed.  We get it, you don't like the government.  You now know that they're not forcing you to be inspected. NEXT.

if you don't like the topic, may i suggest you not read it?
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.....The greatest changes occur in their country without their cooperation. They are not even aware of precisely what has taken place. They suspect it; they have heard of the event by chance. More than that, they are unconcerned with the fortunes of their village, the safety of their streets, the fate of their church and its vestry. They think that such things have nothing to do with them, that they belong to a powerful stranger called “the government.” They enjoy these goods as tenants, without a sense of ownership, and never give a thought to how they might be improved.....

 Alexis de Tocqueville
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