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Author Topic: To wire or not to wire...frames that is...  (Read 1860 times)
tenderton
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« on: February 03, 2011, 12:25:24 AM »

A frame wiring question: I know it's wise to wire my medium frames that I am going to extract honey from, but do I need to cross wire the deep brood frames? All my foundation was ordered as crimp wired, the deep and medium. Just curious if additional support is needed for the brood chambers using deep frames?
Thanks for the help....
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Robo
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« Reply #1 on: February 03, 2011, 08:37:52 AM »

The cross wires keep the foundation from warping before/while the bees draw it out.   I would advise cross wiring if you have the means.   I have never regretted wiring frames.   I have regretted not wiring them.

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AllenF
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« Reply #2 on: February 03, 2011, 08:41:14 AM »

Fishing line is cheap way of doing it also.  But if your foundation is already wired, I would not worry about it.
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VolunteerK9
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« Reply #3 on: February 03, 2011, 08:43:26 AM »

Robo has far more experience with it than I do, but I havent wired anything and havent had any problems. My SC foundation came with the vertical wires pre-installed, but I didnt cross wire. My foundationless deeps and mediums arent wired either. I havent extracted anything yet, but my thinking is  last years comb will be strong enough to extract providing I dont get carried away with the speed of the extractor.
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Robo
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« Reply #4 on: February 03, 2011, 09:21:39 AM »

It has a lot to do with how fast the bees draw out the comb.   I would imagine it is less of a problem in the South than it is in the North.    Vertical crimped wires keep the comb from sagging,  while the horizontal wires keep the foundation from buckling (looking like an "S" from the sides) before it is drawn.

It is definitely not a hard requirement as many here do not and have no issue.   It is a matter of preference.  Time/effort vs. risk.   Nothin worse that finding a whole super with buckled foundation that can't be salvaged.
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Michael Bush
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« Reply #5 on: February 03, 2011, 07:44:26 PM »

I have never wired a medium frame.  I guess I've inherited a few hundred that were wired.  I don't even wire the foundationless mediums.  I have extracted unwired foundationless, unwired surplus, unwired medium brood and of course plastic and PermaComb with no problems.
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Michael Bush
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fish_stix
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« Reply #6 on: February 04, 2011, 09:52:20 PM »

Ditto. No need to wire mediums if using crimp wired foundation. We extract a lot of deeps for drawn comb for splits and wire only the 2 center holes. No problem extracting them and the cross wires keep the foundation from bowing out on deeps.
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Acebird
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« Reply #7 on: February 05, 2011, 03:03:48 PM »

The extractor equipment you use might make a difference.  If your extractor is radial vs. tangential, motorized vs. hand crank or variable speed the forces on the frame could be quite different.
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« Reply #8 on: February 05, 2011, 11:03:10 PM »

I actually don't see much difference.  You might be able to crank things up faster on a tangential, I don't have one so I don't have that much experience actually using one on any scale, but I don't wire and extract mediums in a radial all the time.

Read the old ABC XYZ of Bee Culture and you'll see that wire was not invented to aid extracting, it was to keep the foundation from sagging until it was drawn.

"SAGGING OF THE FOUNDATION, AND HOW TO PREVENT IT.
Many devices have been tried to prevent the sagging of the foundation, and consequently slight elongation of the cells, in the upper part of the comb. With the L. frames, this is so slight that it occasions no serious trouble with the greater part of the wax of commerce; but with deeper frames, or with some specimens of natural wax, the sagging is sufficient to allow the bees to raise drones in the upper cells. Paper has been tried, and succeeds beautifully, while the bees are getting honey; but during dearth, when they have nothing to do, they are liable at any time to tear the nice combs all to bits, to get out the paper, which I have supposed they imagine to be the web of the moth-worm. In our apiary I have beautiful combs built on thin wood; but as the bottom of the cell is flat, they are compelled to use wax to fill out the interstices, and the value of this surplus wax, it seems to me, throws the wood base entirely out of the question. I do not like the foundation with wire rolled in it, on account of the greater expense, and because we cannot fasten it in the frames as securely as we can where the wires are first sewed through the frames."--ABC and XYZ of BEEKEEPING, A.I. Root – 1891, section on "Comb Foundation"
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Michael Bush
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