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Author Topic: Controversial comment by Jennifer Berry  (Read 22713 times)

Offline Humanbeeing

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Re: Controversial comment by Jennifer Berry
« Reply #100 on: February 28, 2011, 12:22:42 AM »
HELP! I accidently used Drone eggs with the Hopkins method and I got Drag Queens!!!

Offline Robo

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Re: Controversial comment by Jennifer Berry
« Reply #101 on: February 28, 2011, 09:12:41 AM »
http://www.honeybeesuite.com/?p=2796
The definitive paper on the subject by Berry, Owens, and Delaplane can be downloaded here.

Say's who :?
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Offline rdy-b

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Offline Humanbeeing

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Re: Controversial comment by Jennifer Berry
« Reply #103 on: March 04, 2011, 02:41:31 AM »
First time I watched the videos of Dee Lusby working her bees, I knew they were Africanized. Dean Stiglitz seems to be beside himself and Ramona appeared just a bit nervous. It may have happened so gradually, that Dee didn't notice. All the same though, she does a fantastic job with them, so take notes. We may all be working Africanized bees some day.
It's all mind over matter. If you don't mind, it don't matter.
HELP! I accidently used Drone eggs with the Hopkins method and I got Drag Queens!!!

Offline deknow

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Re: Controversial comment by Jennifer Berry
« Reply #104 on: March 04, 2011, 03:45:05 AM »
errrr, ok...i can't argue with how things "seemed like" to you.  but having been there, i'll tell you that my biggest concern while filming was to avoid the teddy bear cholla (a cactus with gazillions of tiny, painful, barbed spines) that is everywhere underfoot and hard to avoid when you are framing video on a screen, going through 100+ hives/day, trying to learn from dee while staying out of her way, trying to get actual work done (none of this was staged or setup....it was filmed during the course of dee's routine spring workup, doing splits without smoke), all the while trying my best to accurately narrate what was happening and why...without a script, and without any foresight as to what will be in the box when they are opened, as this was the first inspection since the fall.

it's worth noting that neither of us are "thrill seekers" by any means (we don't even climb ladders higher than 5 or 6 feet), yet here we are, back at dee's for the 5th time in 4 years.

deknow


Offline rdy-b

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Re: Controversial comment by Jennifer Berry
« Reply #105 on: March 04, 2011, 11:05:25 PM »
First time I watched the videos of Dee Lusby working her bees, I knew they were Africanized. Dean Stiglitz seems to be beside himself and Ramona appeared just a bit nervous. It may have happened so gradually, that Dee didn't notice. All the same though, she does a fantastic job with them, so take notes. We may all be working Africanized bees some day.
It's all mind over matter. If you don't mind, it don't matter.
Do you have a link --i have seen this video sometime ago but cant find a link
 what i saw -might not be what you saw -but those bees wernt that hot and just needed smoke-but you already know not to smoke your nurse bees off of comb you are useing for your splits--RDY-B

Offline Michael Bush

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Re: Controversial comment by Jennifer Berry
« Reply #106 on: March 04, 2011, 11:59:39 PM »
Last time I was in Dee's yards and she was throwing boxes around and slamming them down, one of the other beeks with us asked "I wonder what they would act like if you treated them normally."  I said "let's see".  We walked away from the area where she was working, puffed a couple of puffs of smoke in the entrance of a strong looking hive, poped the top and blow a couple of puffs over the top and proceeded to do a typical inspection without any of them paying any attention...

Dee is often more interested in getting the work done quickly than getting it done gracefully.  She is single handedly managing between 600 and 1000 hives.  She doesn't have time to be graceful.  I've seen a few of her hives that were hotter than I would tolerate, and NONE of them that were as hot as some bees from some queens I got from Texas once... not even in the ballpark.  If the worst I ever had to deal with was the hottest of Dee's hives, I'd keep beekeeping.  If the only bees I could get were like those Texas bees, I would quit beekeeping.  It would take all the fun out it.

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Offline deknow

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Re: Controversial comment by Jennifer Berry
« Reply #107 on: March 05, 2011, 01:15:41 AM »
link here:
http://beeuntoothers.com/index.php/resources

...now that i have a vimeo account, i want to re do these, as the google video resolution is low, and it's hard to even see how many bees are on the topbars.

deknow

Offline BlueBee

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Re: Controversial comment by Jennifer Berry
« Reply #108 on: March 05, 2011, 03:35:36 AM »
Watched your video deknow.  I can sure HEAR a lot of bees.

Wow, does Dee have a lot of bees! 

I’m beginning to think she is a super woman lugging around deeps like that.  And you say she deals with 600+ hives.  That is amazing.

Any rattlers out there?  Might be kind of hard to hear with all those bees.  Watch your step  :)
 

Offline deknow

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Re: Controversial comment by Jennifer Berry
« Reply #109 on: March 05, 2011, 04:04:02 AM »
yes, there are rattlers...and mountain lions, venomous spiders....and drug smugglers.  it is the wild west.

deknow

Offline Acebird

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Re: Controversial comment by Jennifer Berry
« Reply #110 on: March 05, 2011, 11:07:37 AM »
yes, there are rattlers...and mountain lions, venomous spiders....and drug smugglers.  it is the wild west.

deknow

So all the boarder patrol has to do is set up hives on the border and spray the people crossing with pheromones?  Maybe a potato gun loaded with banana paste. :-D

Graceful!  She had to kill more bees than I have in my hive.  I can't imagine any hobbyist adopting her technique.
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Offline FRAMEshift

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Re: Controversial comment by Jennifer Berry
« Reply #111 on: March 05, 2011, 11:20:44 AM »
http://www.ent.uga.edu/bees/documents/m08138.pdf
Definitive works in science are rare, and this is not one of them.  :-D   Notice a few things about these results:

Only one of the three trials went through the winter and 70% of those hives died.  Did they die from mites? 

Bee populations were higher in small cell.  Is that because the large cell hives went though a break in their brood cycles?

Total mite loads in all cases were below actionable levels.  That means that if these trials accurately replicated real-world experience, we should never have to treat for mites.  Since that is not true, it tells me that these trails do not completely mirror actual conditions that affect mite populations.   :?

I know that these comments are off subject for this thread, but unrefuted references to this paper keep popping up and may mislead many beeks.
"You never can tell with bees."  --  Winnie-the-Pooh

Offline Acebird

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Re: Controversial comment by Jennifer Berry
« Reply #112 on: March 05, 2011, 11:44:30 AM »
 
Quote
we should never have to treat for mites.  Since that is not true,


How do you explain the cases where it is true?
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Offline FRAMEshift

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Re: Controversial comment by Jennifer Berry
« Reply #113 on: March 05, 2011, 01:01:23 PM »
Quote
we should never have to treat for mites.  Since that is not true,


How do you explain the cases where it is true?
I mean that most beekeepers who use standard foundation also end up treating for mites.  In the other cases, maybe it's genetics or maybe it's small cell.   My point was that the experimental trials did not document the lethal explosion of mites that is the reason for the research in the first place. 

If we lived in the world of low mite counts that resulted from the experimental conditions, nobody would ever have to treat for mites.  So something about the trials is not reflective of the real world.
"You never can tell with bees."  --  Winnie-the-Pooh

Offline FRAMEshift

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Re: Controversial comment by Jennifer Berry
« Reply #114 on: March 05, 2011, 01:57:23 PM »
yes, there are rattlers...and mountain lions, venomous spiders....and drug smugglers.  it is the wild west.

deknow
Speaking of the wild west, do I hear you saying at  about 47 minutes in the Mendoza Canyon video that you "had Dee ordained as a minister" to marry you and Ramona?  Yes, Arizona must be a wild and crazy place.

The vids are great but it sure would be nice to hear what Dee is saying.  I get the impression she is dropping pearls of wisdom but they are drowned out by the sound of the bees.  :-D

"You never can tell with bees."  --  Winnie-the-Pooh

Offline Acebird

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Re: Controversial comment by Jennifer Berry
« Reply #115 on: March 05, 2011, 03:13:43 PM »
Quote
I get the impression she is dropping pearls of wisdom but they are drowned out by the sound of the bees.
 

This is not intended to make anyone mad but the vids as a learning tool are nearly hopeless.  If it were not for the camera man narrating what was on the frames you could mistake them for furnace filters.  It is nearly impossible to get adequate sound quality from a camera mike especially out doors.  Maybe this would have been an excellent opportunity to do a slide show presentation like what is on Linda's site.

From a newbee's prospective:
What I got from this film is that with a strong hive you can split it with no concerns at all.  Anything will work.
You can be as rough as you want handling bees if you don't mind 20-30 thousand bees flying at your head.

Again, I am not trying to discredit what was done but only give my prospective on what I saw.
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Offline Bee Happy

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Re: Controversial comment by Jennifer Berry
« Reply #116 on: March 05, 2011, 04:13:04 PM »
[...]avoid the teddy bear cholla (a cactus with gazillions of tiny, painful, barbed spines) that is everywhere underfoot and hard to avoid [...]

deknow


I remember when I was 7-ish and we moved from "back east" to Tucson (we already had family there) - and being terrified when on the way out to play with my cousin when my uncle said "Watch out for the 'Jumping Cactus'." I couldn't help but wonder what kind of demented landscape I had been uprooted to.
They don't really jump, but when you come home with six or seven segments on your back and no memory of getting near one.... - it was the teddy bear cholla.
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Offline skflyfish

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Re: Controversial comment by Jennifer Berry
« Reply #117 on: March 09, 2011, 02:26:17 PM »
@deknow,

In the video you talk about the orientation of the foundation-less frame based on the hosel, if I heard right. It was hard to hear with so many bees buzzing. ;-)

The foundation-less orientation is not covered in your book, so could you explain it here?

Thx,

Jay

link here:
http://beeuntoothers.com/index.php/resources

...now that i have a vimeo account, i want to re do these, as the google video resolution is low, and it's hard to even see how many bees are on the topbars.

deknow

Offline deknow

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Re: Controversial comment by Jennifer Berry
« Reply #118 on: March 09, 2011, 03:28:46 PM »
...dee doesn't use foundationless frames (at all), so nothing in the videos were referring to foundationless frames.

deknow

Offline Humanbeeing

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Re: Controversial comment by Jennifer Berry
« Reply #119 on: March 09, 2011, 09:55:20 PM »
I thought Africanized bees were already bred in to the bees in Arizona? That's what Dee Lusby says in the article. So how do you tell for sure, without wing samples? She also said that they are no problem for the beekeeping industry. That led me to assume her bees are too.
http://www.beesource.com/point-of-view/africanized-honey-bees/some-beekeepers-believe-killer-bees-are-fraud/
HELP! I accidently used Drone eggs with the Hopkins method and I got Drag Queens!!!