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Author Topic: Controversial comment by Jennifer Berry  (Read 23932 times)

Offline organicfarmer

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Re: Controversial comment by Jennifer Berry
« Reply #80 on: February 21, 2011, 03:14:00 PM »
I have talked to ms. berry after the state bee meeting when she said small cell was bunk. I had offered her chemical free wax to use in here study. to say organic beekeepers would have harsh chemical in there bees wax is bunk======gotta watch who's toes you step on when your receiving millions in grants.

well I am off my soap box now====sorry :mrgreen: :roll: :-D

Don,
May i use your soap box?
do you mean scientists could be influenced by who grant them the monies? I can't believe that. :-D
Actually research (on research) has shown just that: biased results, docted up numbers... to fit the 'donor's' intent. Let's ask for accountability and transparency. Such as source of major funding for U-Penn labs who are doing work on bees and chems.

Offline Countryboy

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Re: Controversial comment by Jennifer Berry
« Reply #81 on: February 21, 2011, 09:00:46 PM »
Quote
Would you care to cite your source of this misinformation?

Maybe I misunderstood this quote.

Quote
COMB
Page 74
The size of the cells in which workers are reared never varies; the saying may substantially be said of the drone - cells, which are much larger; those in which honey is stored very greatly in-depth, while in diameter they are of all sizes, from that of worker to that of drone cells. As 5 worker, or 4 drone cells, will measure about one linear inch, a square inch of comb will contain on each side, 25 worker, were 16 drone cells.


I have no idea where you pulled that quote from, nor do I have any idea why you think it has any relevance to my request for you to cite your source, as that quote says nothing to support your claim that small cell will reduce drone production. 

It is also misinformation that the size of the cell worker are raised in never varies - if that were true, bees would refuse to raise worker brood in any size cell other than the exact 'proper' size.  Next you are going to tell me that drones are never raised in worker cells either...


Offline Acebird

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Re: Controversial comment by Jennifer Berry
« Reply #82 on: February 22, 2011, 09:47:06 AM »
Duke it out with deknow he posted the original quote.
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Offline Countryboy

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Re: Controversial comment by Jennifer Berry
« Reply #83 on: February 22, 2011, 10:55:38 PM »
Duke it out with deknow he posted the original quote.

Please show me where he posted that putting bees on small cell will decrease drone production.

In post #52 he used a quote which said that larger bees had the propensity to raise too many drones, but that is not the same thing that you said in post #58 about forcing bees on small cell decreasing drone production.

Deknow did not make post #58 - Acebird did.

So where do you get the idea that putting bees on small cell will decrease drone production?

Offline Acebird

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Re: Controversial comment by Jennifer Berry
« Reply #84 on: February 23, 2011, 10:19:21 AM »
Quote
The difficulty, at present seems to be the tendency to rearing a greater quantity of useless drones. By having the hive furnished entirely with worker comb, we can so nearly prevent the production of drones that is safe enough to call it a complete remedy.

Reply #52
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Offline VolunteerK9

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Re: Controversial comment by Jennifer Berry
« Reply #85 on: February 23, 2011, 11:05:19 AM »
Although I have absolutely nothing intellectually stimulating to add to this subject, my reasons for using SC are simple. More cells per square inch=potentially more bees per frame. Anything else beneficial is just gravy on the biscuits for me. And I'm not worried about room for drones. Ive got drone cells in burr comb, around the bottoms of frames that weren't completely drawn out plus the foundationless frames dispersed everywhere else but I guess those are a different subject.

Offline deknow

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Re: Controversial comment by Jennifer Berry
« Reply #86 on: February 23, 2011, 11:37:41 AM »
Reply #52
errr, you have to put it in context in order to understand what Root was talking about.  He is talking about using using drone comb for making large workers...which will also lead to a large number of drones.  The remedy he is referring to is using large foundation that isn't so large as to be considered drone comb by the bees....but large enough to make for larger workers.

Quote
Worker bees reared in drone cells are, if I'm correct, sometimes extra-large in size; but as to whether we can make them permanently larger by such a course, I'm inclined to doubt. The difficulty, at present seems to be the tendency to rearing a greater quantity of useless drones. By having the hive furnished entirely with worker comb, we can so nearly prevent the production of drones that is safe enough to call it a complete remedy.

Offline Acebird

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Re: Controversial comment by Jennifer Berry
« Reply #87 on: February 23, 2011, 05:56:59 PM »
I don’t know.  I keep reading it and to me it implies that drone production will decrease if the bees are on all worker cells.  In post #58 I was asking a question because I wasn’t sure what the gist of the whole post was.  I am sure there were other newbies that didn’t grasp everything that was in post #52.

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Online kathyp

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Re: Controversial comment by Jennifer Berry
« Reply #88 on: February 23, 2011, 06:06:00 PM »
a good question would be why do you want reduced drone production? 
.....The greatest changes occur in their country without their cooperation. They are not even aware of precisely what has taken place. They suspect it; they have heard of the event by chance. More than that, they are unconcerned with the fortunes of their village, the safety of their streets, the fate of their church and its vestry. They think that such things have nothing to do with them, that they belong to a powerful stranger called “the government.” They enjoy these goods as tenants, without a sense of ownership, and never give a thought to how they might be improved.....

 Alexis de Tocqueville

Offline Acebird

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Re: Controversial comment by Jennifer Berry
« Reply #89 on: February 23, 2011, 06:14:49 PM »
I don't know you tell me.  I thought some people didn't want drones eating up all the stores.  Didn't the quote say the drones were useless?
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Offline Robo

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Re: Controversial comment by Jennifer Berry
« Reply #90 on: February 23, 2011, 06:16:57 PM »
I don’t know.  I keep reading it and to me it implies that drone production will decrease if the bees are on all worker cells

Ah, but that is not what you said.
Quote
If I understand all this forcing the bees on all small cell will decrease drone production.

Small cell has no more of an effect on drone production that 5.2 foundation.
"Opportunity is missed by most people because it comes dressed in overalls and looks like work." - Thomas Edison



Offline Acebird

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Re: Controversial comment by Jennifer Berry
« Reply #91 on: February 23, 2011, 08:22:54 PM »
Super you got a newbie on a technicality.  Give this man a badge.
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Offline Robo

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Re: Controversial comment by Jennifer Berry
« Reply #92 on: February 23, 2011, 09:15:06 PM »
Sorry I tried to point out the root of the confusion/contention.   Now I remember why I went into ignore mode,  I shall now return there...............
"Opportunity is missed by most people because it comes dressed in overalls and looks like work." - Thomas Edison



Offline Countryboy

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Re: Controversial comment by Jennifer Berry
« Reply #93 on: February 23, 2011, 09:31:07 PM »
I'm a firm believer that God gave me 2 ears and 1 mouth for a reason - that I should listen twice as much as I talk, especially if I am new to something.  When you are a beginner at something, it is a time for learning, and not a time for teaching.  It is better to appear an idiot, than to foolishly open ones mouth, and remove all doubt.

Offline deknow

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Re: Controversial comment by Jennifer Berry
« Reply #94 on: February 24, 2011, 12:06:16 AM »
Super you got a newbie on a technicality.  Give this man a badge.
this isn't debate class.  he didn't "get you on a technicality", he pointed out (precisely) where you are (or were) confused/mistaken.  If you are truly here to learn, you should be thanking him for his help instead of lashing out sarcastically.

deknow

Offline Acebird

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Re: Controversial comment by Jennifer Berry
« Reply #95 on: February 24, 2011, 09:25:53 AM »
Quote
When you are a beginner at something, it is a time for learning, and not a time for teaching.  It is better to appear an idiot, than to foolishly open ones mouth, and remove all doubt.

You have your ways and I have mine.  Other newbies learn at my expense along with me.  It is your belief that curtails newbies from learning.  It is called suppression.
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Offline backyard warrior

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Re: Controversial comment by Jennifer Berry
« Reply #96 on: February 24, 2011, 07:03:14 PM »
I really dont think anyone knows how to keep the bees healthy and alive honestly we debate this and that and what works and what doesnt.  In my eyes i dont think anything works we are losing bees and if all these senior beekeepers had it figured out it would be out there and beekeeping clubs and the goverment would make sure we all would be doing the right thing. I never saw anything in my life that has been around for so many years and yet everyone has a different theory to what works and what doesn't, so this tells me that this is a fairly new problem which seemed to start when the mites arrived and the increased use of chemicals in the food industry to produce large amounts of crops to feed the population.  So why is it the goverment pays farmers not to farm fields so they dont flood the market with large amounts of produce and bring down crop prices which will make it so they cant survive which would mean more supply than demand, why not stop pesticides and let the farmers farm all their fields and make an average income off all their land without chemicals and not recieve money to not farm fields apparently they are producing more than they are losing and therefore we dont need all the food we are capable of  providing with chemical control of pests on crops.  Back to the subject   :-X  Years ago when there wasnt any mites when i was in grade school in the 80s people had loads of honey and bees including my brothers ex girlfriends father he stoped keeping bees because of the losses and recently started up again and says its a whole different ball game compared to when he had bees he said " they made lots of honey and bees and i didnt have to do anything to them".  I really dont think the gov or the senior beeks know what to do or what works thats just my opinion.  I think local stock and survivor genetics is a start in the right direction. Mass producing bees and queens on fake pollen patties and dispersing them nationwide is all about money, not the health of the bees but quanity of bees to make up for all our losses.  :roll: The people need to wake up and realize this patch isnt going to work forever we need to get to the bottom of these issues like Bjorn has said and is saying trying to get something going with a petition.  :-\

Offline tillie

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Re: Controversial comment by Jennifer Berry
« Reply #97 on: February 25, 2011, 12:47:53 AM »
I just checked into this thread and had no idea when I started it a month ago that it would still be alive and kicking. 

What is obvious from the discussion is what we all know:  in beekeeping there isn't a right answer.  That's why the ongoing joke is ask 10 beekeepers a question and you'll get at least 10 different answers.

Tossing around ideas on this forum is a gift to all of us because if we can stay open to new ideas when they are presented, we might find that they are interesting ideas we wouldn't have thought of on our own.

At the same time, it is a peaceful place to discuss our differences and learn from each other.

Personally I'm glad for all I've gained from the many members here who have chosen to chime in when I have a worry or a question.

Thank you, Beemaster, for providing all of us with a place to explore our differences and hear the ideas of other beekeepers.

Linda T in Atlanta
http://beekeeperlinda.blogspot.com
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"You never can tell with bees" - Winnie the Pooh


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Offline Acebird

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Re: Controversial comment by Jennifer Berry
« Reply #98 on: February 25, 2011, 09:30:31 AM »
Quote
I never saw anything in my life that has been around for so many years and yet everyone has a different theory to what works and what doesn't,

You see the same thing happening to the polar ice caps.  You can't screw around with mother nature and win in the long run.
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Offline T Beek

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Re: Controversial comment by Jennifer Berry
« Reply #99 on: February 25, 2011, 09:32:37 AM »
 :?

thomas
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