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Author Topic: Two Dead Hives.. Discourged.  (Read 6235 times)
Trot
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« Reply #60 on: January 29, 2011, 11:25:11 AM »

Thomas,
I went back over the posts and did find a Robo, but I don't know if it is the same one.  If it is you would think that he would chime in and help when people asked for it?
I know that there are perhaps two more "Robo's"  around. One is down under in Australia.
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Robo
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« Reply #61 on: January 29, 2011, 11:35:50 AM »

Is that the same robo who's around here all the time?  Didn't know he had his own site, which I've just added to my faves.

Yes.

FYI, if there is a little globe under a member's avatar, it is a link to their website.
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Acebird
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« Reply #62 on: January 29, 2011, 11:51:01 AM »

Hey, thanks for the heads up Robo.  I brushed the mouse over the other icons and found their meaning too.  As an administrator it would be nice if you or someone could place a topic on the main board explaining these navigation tools to the newbees.  All forums have different icons for accomplishing the same task usually.
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kathyp
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« Reply #63 on: January 29, 2011, 12:06:08 PM »

or you could just play with the icons and figure them out?  evil
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.....The greatest changes occur in their country without their cooperation. They are not even aware of precisely what has taken place. They suspect it; they have heard of the event by chance. More than that, they are unconcerned with the fortunes of their village, the safety of their streets, the fate of their church and its vestry. They think that such things have nothing to do with them, that they belong to a powerful stranger called “the government.” They enjoy these goods as tenants, without a sense of ownership, and never give a thought to how they might be improved.....

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« Reply #64 on: January 29, 2011, 12:16:19 PM »

Good point Kathy, but I still have memories of sticking a bobby pin in an electrical outlet as a kid  grin

Maybe that explains a few things...... Smiley
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« Reply #65 on: January 29, 2011, 12:32:16 PM »

There is a decent introduction section that explains a lot about the forum under the HELP function.
« Last Edit: January 29, 2011, 12:43:21 PM by Robo » Logged

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Acebird
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« Reply #66 on: January 29, 2011, 12:39:35 PM »

Quote
or you could just play with the icons and figure them out? 


If you knew they were there.  Once you are on a site for a period of time you stumble across these things.  If all you want is a click of old members it doesn't matter but if you want to attract new members it helps to make the site easy to use.
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Acebird
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« Reply #67 on: January 29, 2011, 01:31:42 PM »

Quote
There is a decent introduction section that explains a lot about the forum under the help function.

When I first came to the site I didn't see anything in there that described the icons or characters.  There is a good library of acronyms that was helpful.  Maybe I missed it somehow.
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T Beek
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« Reply #68 on: January 29, 2011, 02:09:36 PM »

As I say all the time, I'm lucky I can turn the thing on Smiley At least I've graduated a little, I used to say "computers make good door stops."

thomas
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kathyp
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« Reply #69 on: January 29, 2011, 04:51:04 PM »

Quote
Good point Kathy, but I still have memories of sticking a bobby pin in an electrical outlet as a kid 


mine was putting my hand on the iron to see if it was REALLY hot.  some of us are like that  evil
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.....The greatest changes occur in their country without their cooperation. They are not even aware of precisely what has taken place. They suspect it; they have heard of the event by chance. More than that, they are unconcerned with the fortunes of their village, the safety of their streets, the fate of their church and its vestry. They think that such things have nothing to do with them, that they belong to a powerful stranger called “the government.” They enjoy these goods as tenants, without a sense of ownership, and never give a thought to how they might be improved.....

 Alexis de Tocqueville
Brian D. Bray
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« Reply #70 on: February 03, 2011, 02:41:44 PM »

I've read this thread with interest, especially Trot's posts.  He's evidently one of the few that have been keeping bees longer than I have, 53 years.  I agree with most of what he says but on a few things I disagree.
Over the years I've kept bees in just about every imaginable way except extended extreme cold like Finland, Manitoba, Sekatchawn, and the Dakota's but have talked to several beekeepers who have.
Currently I'm keeping my bees in bottomless hives, with slated racks, and solid bottom boards inverted with the entrance reducer installed to 1/2 entrance as my hive tops. That is probably more ventilation per hive than anyone on this board is currently using.  I've actually experienced less hive loss with this method than any other I've tried, but for practical reasons (moveability) I will be going back to SBB in the spring but retain the upside down bottom boards as tops.  The bees will just have to adapt to the new door.
In my experience a lack of an upper vent/entrance will result in a hive that will be found to be damp inside, moldy combs, and lots of dead bees and more likely to be DOA come spring.

To answer an argument Kathyp raised about the snow melt from the top of the hive as proof that the bees heat the hive I must point out that the snow will melt faster from any roof of any size than it does from the ground or vegetation.  If telescopic tops are used the tin skirt will absorb and reflect heat to will melt the snow from the hive top just as fast from a deadout as a live hive.

In my area, I have found that my Russian and Carnolian bees cluster at the top of the brood chamber after the 1st hard frost and seem to break cluster at those times of cleansing flights and will move honey stores from the outer reaches of the hive to the combs within the confines of the cluster.  Italians don't seem to do this same thing (I've reviewed my notes on this subject) which is one of the major reasons I quit using Italian bees, the winter losses are just to high and the likelyhood of a complete apiary wipeout to frequent for the small scale beekeeper to justify keeping Italian bees in colder temperature areas other than personal prejudice of bee type.

One important factor I've found when examining the benefits/disadvantages of top vents/entrances on hives is that the venting must be designed into the the hive system to be effective, proping tops with sticks, drilling holes, or what ever are 1/2 way measures that produce 1/2 results.  Dedicated top entrances or vents such as I use works well.  Another method that works well for venting is to make the inner top frame out of 3/4X3/4 strips cover it with screen (door screen works) then use screen moulding to secure the screen and leave a gap on each side, this vent allows air flow across the top of the hive under the telescopic or migratory top.

I believe that for the Southeast United States, that have had extremely unusual cold spells and blizzards and where the bees are more than likely to hibernate for brief periods, if at all, that winter losses are going to be high this year because of those extreme cold periods and the fact that many hives are going to be found caught out of cluster when that type of weather occurred.

There's more but that's enough for now.
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Acebird
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« Reply #71 on: February 03, 2011, 04:33:55 PM »

Quote
One important factor I've found when examining the benefits/disadvantages of top vents/entrances on hives is that the venting must be designed into the the hive system to be effective, proping tops with sticks, drilling holes, or what ever are 1/2 way measures that produce 1/2 results.  Dedicated top entrances or vents such as I use works well.


I would have to see a photo to make a judgement call on what is better.  By definition a vent is a hole that releaves pressure.  The only thing that makes sense to me is to not have the cold air pass across the brood.   My problem is how do you know where the cluster will go so you know where the brood is?
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T Beek
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« Reply #72 on: February 03, 2011, 05:00:58 PM »

Brian D Bray: Thanks for your return and the more detailed explanation of your methods.  I'll be looking forward to future postings and would also like to see some pics.  Right now my top entrances are just shimmed, but I'm thinking of using "Trots inner-cover cut out method" as our weather is more similar.  Thanks again.

thomas
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Trot
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« Reply #73 on: February 04, 2011, 02:46:22 PM »

There is nothing complicated about upper entrance.
One simply cuts a notch in the rim of the cover.  Cut it only to the 1/4" ply which is usualy set in a groove in the center, or there abouts, of the frame. 
In old days, there was a smaller rim on one side and about twice as thick-a-rim on the other.  One was for Summer use, other for Winter. 
But, when one would flip it in winter mode, than entrance would be on top - which is wrong! Wrong for the simple reason that the air would than go through centre/feeding hole and out over the top and out.  (Cross-draft)
Nowadays the inner cover is about 3/4" thick (not thick like the old ones) therefore is divided in 3 parts; 1/4" for plywood center and 1/4" for each rim.  Simple.

One does not need to wory about location of the bees. 
There is only one rule to remember. 
Have your notch turned down at all times. 
Have your upper entrance on the same side of hive as is the bottom entrance.  Thus doing, no matter where the cluster locates, the air flow, so called chimney effect is always along the front wall of the hive and no cross-draft or any draft at all can reach your bees no matter what.

Thomas, throw the shims away, they are a pain in the but, more ways than one...
No matter who, what and how famous a beek may use them, they are no good. 
 
For those who would want to get away from them, upper entrances, at other times of the year, (For the life off me I can't see why?)  They can simply turn the cover upside down, or have a stick made, on a pin even, so it can be closed at a moments notice. 
But, so affixed inner cover, closure on a pin is also a magnet for  'neighbouring kids' with ideas to close them and suffocate the hive...  It has happened more than one would think...

 Nation wide, upper entrance saves more hives than we can imagine.  Often beeks don't even know that such a little cut in the top has saved their bacon...  probably more than once a year - GUARANTEED !
Nuff said...

Regards,
Trot
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Brian D. Bray
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« Reply #74 on: February 05, 2011, 01:03:35 AM »

There is nothing complicated about upper entrance.
One simply cuts a notch in the rim of the cover.  Cut it only to the 1/4" ply which is usualy set in a groove in the center, or there abouts, of the frame. 
In old days, there was a smaller rim on one side and about twice as thick-a-rim on the other.  One was for Summer use, other for Winter. 
But, when one would flip it in winter mode, than entrance would be on top - which is wrong! Wrong for the simple reason that the air would than go through centre/feeding hole and out over the top and out.  (Cross-draft)
Nowadays the inner cover is about 3/4" thick (not thick like the old ones) therefore is divided in 3 parts; 1/4" for plywood center and 1/4" for each rim.  Simple.

but a lot of work to change all the bottoms from summer 3/4 inch opening to winter 3/8 inch opening.  I build all of my equipment (tops & bottoms, screened or not) to the 3/4 inch entrance and then adjust that with reducers.

Quote
 
Have your upper entrance on the same side of hive as is the bottom entrance.  Thus doing, no matter where the cluster locates, the air flow, so called chimney effect is always along the front wall of the hive and no cross-draft or any draft at all can reach your bees no matter what.

This is probably the most important part and the one I forgot to add, I thought of it, I just forgot to add it to my post.

Quote
Thomas, throw the shims away, they are a pain in the but, more ways than one...
No matter who, what and how famous a beek may use them, they are no good. 
 
For those who would want to get away from them, upper entrances, at other times of the year, (For the life off me I can't see why?)  They can simply turn the cover upside down, or have a stick made, on a pin even, so it can be closed at a moments notice. 

Nation wide, upper entrance saves more hives than we can imagine.  Often beeks don't even know that such a little cut in the top has saved their bacon...  probably more than once a year - GUARANTEED !
Nuff said...

Regards,
Trot

To which I will add a hearty Amen.
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T Beek
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« Reply #75 on: February 05, 2011, 10:52:29 AM »

Of course you fellas know, I'll be following your advise.  Thanks.

I don't think the conversion will be too problematic, especially once it WARMS UP Wink

thomas
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