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Author Topic: Attention beeks in the north read this !!!!!!!!!!!!!!  (Read 9803 times)
Acebird
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« Reply #100 on: January 23, 2011, 11:02:41 AM »

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Honeybees wouldn't be living in either of our parts of the world, if WE didn't bring them here to begin with. 


Do you also believe that if humans did not intervene in the honey bees life that they would go extinct in the north country?  Feral bees as we know them would die off and only live in the south?

How did the Willy mammoth ever make it to the Arctic circle without our help?

It appears that even those that have kept bees for 50 years have colony failures.  Is that because they still have something to learn and won't?  Is it because they have been doing the same thing for 50 years and are resistant to change?

I would like to know more on the subject that bees store food in their hive and then come winter they forgot where they put it.  How would you prove such a thing?
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Finski
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« Reply #101 on: January 23, 2011, 11:09:10 AM »


It appears that even those that have kept bees for 50 years have colony failures.  

And those who have driven car 50 years have collisions.  It happens to those who act...
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Finski
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« Reply #102 on: January 23, 2011, 11:15:29 AM »


I would like to know more on the subject that bees store food in their hive and then come winter they forgot where they put it.  How would you prove such a thing?

I have lost many hives this way. The cluster starts to winter in upper box. They move up and die when food is finish.  They do not know that in the first box they have 20 kg food.
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Acebird
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« Reply #103 on: January 23, 2011, 11:36:30 AM »

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I have lost many hives this way. The cluster starts to winter in upper box. They move up and die when food is finish.  They do not know that in the first box they have 20 kg food.
 
 
Shouldn't the food be in the upper box not the lower box?  Why did you (they) have 20kg of food in the  lower box?  Is it something you did previously that changed their normal habits?
 
 
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slacker361
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« Reply #104 on: January 23, 2011, 11:42:55 AM »

Well if my girls survive I will have three hives come the spring. WOOHOO if not I will have two woohoo
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Finski
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« Reply #105 on: January 23, 2011, 12:36:43 PM »


Shouldn't the food be in the upper box not the lower box?  Why did you (they) have 20kg of food in the  lower box?  Is it something you did previously that changed their normal habits?
 

I have nursed bees 48 years. Many things have happened.  When I have 2 box hive, I put brood frames down before feeding. Bees fill the low box first because they brood are there. They they fill the upper box.

Frames must be full, otherwise bees do not cap the food.

When I say that I feed sugar on average 20 kg per hive, some have less and some more.
Bees have honey too in hives before feeding.

If I say something, it is mostly regular, because hives are quite individual what they do. It is not common that cluster eates  first food from upper box.


My aim is not over winter 100% alive. It is imposible. If some die and I  do not cry for them.
20% losses during winter and spring are normal to me.
So I have 20% spare hives as insuarance.
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backyard warrior
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« Reply #106 on: January 23, 2011, 01:00:54 PM »

The Russian bees do so well with mites because in Russia they didnt have the money or means to give treatments and the strong colonies learned to manage the mites and the weak died. Now the Russian bees are very resistent to mites because of this if we were smart we would let our bees do the same but we have such a shortage nobody wants to do that so the best scenario is to bring the resistant bees here and breed them into our honey bees.
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kathyp
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« Reply #107 on: January 23, 2011, 01:13:28 PM »

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I would like to know more on the subject that bees store food in their hive and then come winter they forgot where they put it.  How would you prove such a thing?

by keeping bees long enough to observe their behavior.  or....you might take the word of those with many years of experience until you have enough of your own. 
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.....The greatest changes occur in their country without their cooperation. They are not even aware of precisely what has taken place. They suspect it; they have heard of the event by chance. More than that, they are unconcerned with the fortunes of their village, the safety of their streets, the fate of their church and its vestry. They think that such things have nothing to do with them, that they belong to a powerful stranger called “the government.” They enjoy these goods as tenants, without a sense of ownership, and never give a thought to how they might be improved.....

 Alexis de Tocqueville
T Beek
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« Reply #108 on: January 23, 2011, 02:19:50 PM »

ditto that kathyp Smiley  It amazes me how many first or second year experts have popped up recently rolleyes

"the only experts are the bees."  If you aren't listening, you aren't learning.

thomas
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Finski
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« Reply #109 on: January 23, 2011, 02:35:00 PM »


"the only experts are the bees."  If you aren't listening, you aren't learning.

thomas

Thomas, don't loose your hope.  Sun will shine some day into branch heap!
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kathyp
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« Reply #110 on: January 23, 2011, 03:09:28 PM »

questions are important.  i hope none of us think we have all the answers.  that's a quick road to failure.  however, it's important for new beekeepers to recognize that they have 100's of years of combined knowledge here and that the knowledge came from doing. 
i would not expect that anyone would take a gospel any answers they get here. 
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.....The greatest changes occur in their country without their cooperation. They are not even aware of precisely what has taken place. They suspect it; they have heard of the event by chance. More than that, they are unconcerned with the fortunes of their village, the safety of their streets, the fate of their church and its vestry. They think that such things have nothing to do with them, that they belong to a powerful stranger called “the government.” They enjoy these goods as tenants, without a sense of ownership, and never give a thought to how they might be improved.....

 Alexis de Tocqueville
Acebird
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« Reply #111 on: January 23, 2011, 03:16:24 PM »

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or....you might take the word of those with many years of experience until you have enough of your own.


And who would that be?  It doesn’t take long (just read though this one post) to see conflicting views on almost every subject from people that have many years experience keeping bees.  I can now see where the phrase “this is what I do” is very appropriate when speaking with other beeks.  At first I thought it was a very unusual phrase coming from those that have done it for quite some time.

I want to hear comments like this one because it makes perfect sense to me.  I could care less if the person has two years experience or leaned it on their own or from someone that had 50 years experience.

Quote
The Russian bees do so well with mites because in Russia they didnt have the money or means to give treatments and the strong colonies learned to manage the mites and the weak died. Now the Russian bees are very resistent to mites because of this if we were smart we would let our bees do the same

Finski wrote:
Quote
It is not common that cluster eates first food from upper box.
If it is not common than why would you want to save this hive and propagate its genetics?  It makes more sense to me to propagate the colonies that do well through the winter for what ever reason.  Once they figure it out, I don’t have to.

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kathyp
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« Reply #112 on: January 23, 2011, 03:29:25 PM »

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If it is not common than why would you want to save this hive and propagate its genetics?  It makes more sense to me to propagate the colonies that do well through the winter for what ever reason.  Once they figure it out, I don’t have to.

you are confusing your issues.  the way bees eat in winter has nothing to do with survival genetics.  it has to do with normal behavior.  this is where experience and observation come in.  bees store across the top of the brood for winter.  they eat their way UP over the course of the winter and end up in the top box or top of the box if you only use one.  this is what they do in the wild, or when we keep them.
if your honey is in the bottom because you have done some thing like swapping boxes, the bees will still move up, and they will move away from their food. 

i agree that there are many opinions and often conflicting info.  learning normal behavior helps you weed through info that is either wrong, or of no use to your circumstances.  there is no way to learn, except to do and observe.  it's another one of those things that can't be handed to you.

and guess what?  you will fail from time to time.  that's also normal.
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.....The greatest changes occur in their country without their cooperation. They are not even aware of precisely what has taken place. They suspect it; they have heard of the event by chance. More than that, they are unconcerned with the fortunes of their village, the safety of their streets, the fate of their church and its vestry. They think that such things have nothing to do with them, that they belong to a powerful stranger called “the government.” They enjoy these goods as tenants, without a sense of ownership, and never give a thought to how they might be improved.....

 Alexis de Tocqueville
Finski
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« Reply #113 on: January 23, 2011, 03:34:49 PM »


 I could care less if the person has two years experience or leaned it on their own or from someone that had 50 years experience.


20 years ago I could write with 30 years experience when you just learned to ride with bicycle.


Quote
The Russian bees do so well with mites because in Russia they didnt have the money or means to give treatments and the strong colonies learned to manage the mites and the weak died. Now the Russian bees are very resistent to mites because of this if we were smart we would let our bees do the same


Russian bees die for varroa as others strains. Russian beekeepers themselves use all kind of varroa killing medicines. They do not trust "varroa resistent" bees.

Finski wrote:
Quote
It is not common that cluster eates first food from upper box.
If it is not common than why would you want to save this hive and propagate its genetics? 


I have studied genetics in university. That is why I do not breed dead bees. It is hollywood job to wake up dinosauria.
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Finski
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« Reply #114 on: January 23, 2011, 03:38:32 PM »

you will fail from time to time.  that's also normal.

Failing is the best teacher.

Too much failings is called "a lot of experience".
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Acebird
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« Reply #115 on: January 23, 2011, 04:05:40 PM »

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there is no way to learn, except to do and observe.  it's another one of those things that can't be handed to you.

If this were true this forum would be worthless and any book ever written about bees would be worthless.  There are many ways to learn, observation being only one of the ways.

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they eat their way UP over the course of the winter and end up in the top box or top of the box if you only use one.

I was also told they would move horizontal, hence horizontal hive exist.

Quote
if your honey is in the bottom because you have done some thing like swapping boxes, the bees will still move up, and they will move away from their food.

Didn't I elude to this?  Sometimes it is hard to tell if you are arguing for or against what I say.
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T Beek
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« Reply #116 on: January 23, 2011, 04:13:01 PM »

 beat a dead horse
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Finski
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« Reply #117 on: January 23, 2011, 04:20:50 PM »


If this were true this forum would be worthless and any book ever written about bees would be worthless.  There are many ways to learn, observation being only one of the ways..

I have learned from internet a lot. When I started to surf in internet, I noticed that I have really much wrong information. Beekeeping really goes forward.

One thing is that there is no "worker queen". They are tens or hundreds. That was found in UK over 10 years ago. But still, folks shake that poor worker queen onto lawn and she cannot flye to the hive. Next day the hive has again 254 worker layers. - The old truth works...

60 years it has been known that you cannot build up colony with sugar water, but still today many is going to do it.   - If you do not know what to do to bees, feed them with sugar water!!!
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backyard warrior
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« Reply #118 on: January 23, 2011, 04:29:59 PM »

Finski why cant u use sugar water what does it to Huh
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backyard warrior
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« Reply #119 on: January 23, 2011, 04:36:58 PM »

Finski, why did the U.S. bring bees over from Russia to Baton Rouge Lousiana to the island and isolate the bees and propagate the genetics of the russian be known as the Russian Queen Breading Association run by the U.S. food and drug administration and they have scientific proof that the russian bee is very hygenic and is the most resistant to varroa mites. I dont say things on here that i havent learned from an educated individual or scientific proof i am by no means a know it all at this far into beekeeping but i do read alot and listen to people such as yourself that have years of experience thats how you better yourself in life  no matter what you do you always listen more than you talk thats what i was taught by my parents.  grin
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