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kathyp
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« Reply #40 on: January 01, 2011, 04:54:26 PM » |
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it's very "new agey" but you and i are great examples of how different approaches can still bring (hopefully) good results. i am just as likely to cuss them out and threaten to ventilate the hive with a 12 gauge  , especially if i get stung. in spite of that, most of my decisions come after observation and taking time to "feel the force". |
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"Nay, it [this constitution of government] must perish, if there be not that vital spirit in the people, which alone can nourish, sustain, and direct all its movements. It is in vain, that statesmen shall form plans of government, in which the beauty and harmony of a republic shall be embodied in visible order, shall be built up on solid substructions, and adorned by every useful ornament, if the inhabitants suffer the silent power of time to dilapidate its walls, or crumble its massy supporters into dust; if the assaults from without are never resisted, and the rottenness and mining from within are never guarded against. Who can preserve the rights and liberties of the people, when they shall be abandoned by themselves? Who shall keep watch in the temple, when the watchmen sleep at their posts? Who shall call upon the people to redeem their possessions, and revive the republic, when their own hands have deliberately and corruptly surrendered them to the oppressor, and have built the prisons, or dug the graves of their own friends?
– Justice Joseph Story, "Commentaries on the Constitution of the United States," Volume II, Chapter XIII: Mode of Passing Laws, Sections 900-901, pp. 364 (1833)
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skatesailor
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« Reply #41 on: January 01, 2011, 05:34:12 PM » |
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You really do need to inspect your hive. I'm not saying that you should be on the lookout for disease issues or pest problems...it takes a bit of experience to diagnose many diseases.
You can't gain the needed experience without first understanding what a normal hive should look like. Can you identify the basics of the hive? Queen cells or cups vs drone brood, capped brood vs capped honey? The best way to learn is to actually lay eyes on each.
And pose any questions here or at your bee club.
Scott
Agree with everything said here. Its always important to observe your stock in order to observe their health and needs. With a hive that means opening it occasionally. That's how you gain the experience. You might want to jot some notes down as you do this to reflect upon later for comparison. |
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AllenF
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« Reply #42 on: January 01, 2011, 05:49:53 PM » |
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it's very "new agey" but you and i are great examples of how different approaches can still bring (hopefully) good results. i am just as likely to cuss them out and threaten to ventilate the hive with a 12 gauge , especially if i get stung. in spite of that, most of my decisions come after observation and taking time to "feel the force". Maybe try that new Taurus 1911 out? |
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Acebird
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« Reply #43 on: January 01, 2011, 07:11:43 PM » |
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Hey Annette,
You can’t change who you are. Spending more than 35 years “thinking it to death” you don’t usually adopt a new game plan. I am sure you have read it and maybe you are a part of it but each person has to do what is comfortable for him or her. It really doesn’t matter how you get there it just matters that you get to a point that satisfies yourself in what ever you do.
Bee happy, we all want the same thing in the end.
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Never thought I would do it!
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Acebird
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« Reply #44 on: January 01, 2011, 07:30:47 PM » |
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You can't gain the needed experience without first understanding what a normal hive should look like. I guess I should comment on this because it keeps getting quoted. The power of the Internet allows you to look into hundred’s of normal hives with out ever coming close to one. You can see problem hives and thriving hives, abused hives and pampered hives, and a multitude of different hives in different locations. The biggest experience of opening up your own hive is getting over the fear of the little critters. I believe that experience shouldn’t be forced. Those people that set time tables on their feelings usually get hurt. |
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Never thought I would do it!
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hardwood
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« Reply #45 on: January 01, 2011, 07:55:34 PM » |
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You can also learn a lot about snow skiing from reading and looking at all the pretty pictures out there but you'll never be able to ski for yourself without strapping on a pair of skis and trying it out...PERSONAL experience is the only way to truly learn.
Scott
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"In the first place, we should insist that if the immigrant who comes here in good faith becomes an American and assimilates himself to us, he shall be treated on an exact equality with everyone else, for it is an outrage to discriminate against any such man because of creed, or birthplace, or origin. But this is predicated upon the person's becoming in every facet an American, and nothing but an American...There can be no divided allegiance here. Any man who says he is an American, but something else also, isn't an American at all. We have room for but one flag, the American flag...We have room for but one language here, and that is the English language...And we have room for but one sole loyalty and that is a loyalty to the American people."
Theodore Roosevelt 1907
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Jim 134
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« Reply #46 on: January 01, 2011, 08:05:29 PM » |
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You can also learn a lot about snow skiing from reading and looking at all the pretty pictures out there but you'll never be able to ski for yourself without strapping on a pair of skis and trying it out...PERSONAL experience is the only way to truly learn.
Scott
hardwood......... I like at BEE HAPPY Jim 134  |
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"Tell me and I'll forget,show me and I may remember,involve me and I'll understand" Chinese Proverb "The farmer is the only man in our economy who buys everything at retail, sells everything at wholesale, and pays the freight both ways." John F. Kennedy Franklin County Beekeepers Association MA. http://www.franklinmabeekeepers.org/ |
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Acebird
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« Reply #47 on: January 01, 2011, 08:09:14 PM » |
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PERSONAL experience is the only way to truly learn. Personal experience is an excellent way to learn but I wouldn't suggest it is the only way to learn. If you needed experience we would have never gotten to the moon. I got a feeling there was a lot more to learn on that endeavor than raising bees. |
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kathyp
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« Reply #48 on: January 01, 2011, 10:17:12 PM » |
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The power of the Internet allows you to look into hundred’s of normal hives with out ever coming close to one. You can see problem hives and thriving hives, abused hives and pampered hives, and a multitude of different hives in different locations. The biggest experience of opening up your own hive is getting over the fear of the little critters nope, sorry. a lot of what you need to see and learn is the behavior of the bees under different circumstances. you can't get that from pictures. in my experience, people who don't force themselves to face and deal with fear, don't ever deal with fear. of course, i never thought there was anything wrong with a stiff shot of liquid courage when facing something scary. as long as you suck it up and face it...... |
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"Nay, it [this constitution of government] must perish, if there be not that vital spirit in the people, which alone can nourish, sustain, and direct all its movements. It is in vain, that statesmen shall form plans of government, in which the beauty and harmony of a republic shall be embodied in visible order, shall be built up on solid substructions, and adorned by every useful ornament, if the inhabitants suffer the silent power of time to dilapidate its walls, or crumble its massy supporters into dust; if the assaults from without are never resisted, and the rottenness and mining from within are never guarded against. Who can preserve the rights and liberties of the people, when they shall be abandoned by themselves? Who shall keep watch in the temple, when the watchmen sleep at their posts? Who shall call upon the people to redeem their possessions, and revive the republic, when their own hands have deliberately and corruptly surrendered them to the oppressor, and have built the prisons, or dug the graves of their own friends?
– Justice Joseph Story, "Commentaries on the Constitution of the United States," Volume II, Chapter XIII: Mode of Passing Laws, Sections 900-901, pp. 364 (1833)
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Acebird
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« Reply #49 on: January 02, 2011, 11:05:00 AM » |
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in my experience, people who don't force themselves to face and deal with fear, don't ever deal with fear. Yes, this is true. Not everyone fairs well after a military approach to solving problems. I prefer to know what I am up against before diving right in armed to the hilt. I think bees are predominately peace loving creatures. I see no logic to ripping their home apart carring a sign saying "I am your friend. I mean you no harm. But I have no darn idea what I am doing". |
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kathyp
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« Reply #50 on: January 02, 2011, 11:25:07 AM » |
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it is a bit ridiculous to assign human feelings and intentions to an insect. they are not peace loving creatures. they are bugs. they are also creatures that you have chosen to take and keep. you have a responsibility to learn about them and care for them to the best of your ability.
fear is the mind killer.....and the bee killer also.
additional thought: maybe if you hold a "we come in peace" sign they'll know that you mean them no harm. you'll have nothing to fear......
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"Nay, it [this constitution of government] must perish, if there be not that vital spirit in the people, which alone can nourish, sustain, and direct all its movements. It is in vain, that statesmen shall form plans of government, in which the beauty and harmony of a republic shall be embodied in visible order, shall be built up on solid substructions, and adorned by every useful ornament, if the inhabitants suffer the silent power of time to dilapidate its walls, or crumble its massy supporters into dust; if the assaults from without are never resisted, and the rottenness and mining from within are never guarded against. Who can preserve the rights and liberties of the people, when they shall be abandoned by themselves? Who shall keep watch in the temple, when the watchmen sleep at their posts? Who shall call upon the people to redeem their possessions, and revive the republic, when their own hands have deliberately and corruptly surrendered them to the oppressor, and have built the prisons, or dug the graves of their own friends?
– Justice Joseph Story, "Commentaries on the Constitution of the United States," Volume II, Chapter XIII: Mode of Passing Laws, Sections 900-901, pp. 364 (1833)
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Acebird
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« Reply #51 on: January 02, 2011, 12:08:42 PM » |
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Kathy, We obviously don't agree on this point. I am sure there will be more times when this occurs. All I have done is give a queen and her entourage a place to live. It is up to them to decide if they like it. The door is open (both of them), they can leave if they want to. you have a responsibility to learn about them and care for them to the best of your ability. They have no feelings but I have a responsibility?  I choose to learn about them but I do not have any responsibility for them. That is your rule book. |
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Never thought I would do it!
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deknow
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« Reply #52 on: January 02, 2011, 12:14:10 PM » |
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The power of the Internet allows you to look into hundred’s of normal hives with out ever coming close to one.
sorry, the above is not true. there are all kinds of different reasons to keep bees, and i don't think that everyone _needs_ to do inspections. but, if you want to learn about bees, you gotta open the box. if you don't want to learn about bees (and just want to install a packages every year to keep your blueberries pollinated, more power to you, and i don't see any reason for you to be asking all the questions you are asking. there are things you can learn by reading and looking at pictures and videos....but you will never "grock" bees (even on a basic level) without hands on experience....it's akin to being raised alone in a box and learning about "people" and "friendship" via the media. ...i'll also comment on something you said earlier. if you don't want to read (books, websites, etc), that is your deal....but it's a lot to expect everyone here to "answer" to your every thought and inquiry when you are not willing to put some time in educating yourself. certainly books have a "perspective", but methods for keeping bees are "systems", and often a practice or technique that works for someone works because of a number of other things they are doing. ...there is something to be said (perhaps everything) to looking at complete systems rather than a random assemblage of individual components (which is what you are getting here). speaking for myself, i'd be happy to answer every question that comes to your mind for a reasonable hourly rate...beyond that, if you don't spend time reading, educating yourself and answering your own questions (especially the basic ones), you will quickly become annoying, and will likely be ignored. books (especially good books) do promote one way of thinking, one way of doing things. would you rather read a book written by a commettee? is such a book likely to lead the way to success? deknow |
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VolunteerK9
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« Reply #53 on: January 02, 2011, 12:21:27 PM » |
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They have no feelings but I have a responsibility? I choose to learn about them but I do not have any responsibility for them. That is your rule book. I think so yeah. You chose to buy either a package or nuc of bees so it is your responsibility to take care of them. And part of taking care of them would be to pop the top, take a look in and see what they may or may not need. I'm guessing that is your garden thats shown in your avatar....you didnt just throw out a few tomato plants in a hole in the ground and if they survived great if not no biggie. You cultivated, maybe watered, prolly slung on some chicken poo whatever to insure that you got what you expected out of your efforts. Keeping a beehive or two is no different. Throw a suit on and dive right in. It was intimidating as hell when i first did it-almost a rush to have all those bees flying around, but I did it and the experience has been great and the education worth every second. |
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deknow
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« Reply #54 on: January 02, 2011, 12:29:50 PM » |
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...why does "buying bees" imply (or impose) some kind of "responsibility for their well being"? why doesn't an anthill on your property (or even termites in your foundation) demand the same responsibility and care?
if it's because the bees are "living", then you have the responsibility to care for other living things that are in your orbit.
if it's because you paid for them, then it's time to bring your pet rock to the geologist for a checkup!
deknow
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VolunteerK9
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Gamecock fan in UT land.
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« Reply #55 on: January 02, 2011, 12:54:43 PM » |
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...why does "buying bees" imply (or impose) some kind of "responsibility for their well being"? why doesn't an anthill on your property (or even termites in your foundation) demand the same responsibility and care?
if it's because the bees are "living", then you have the responsibility to care for other living things that are in your orbit.
if it's because you paid for them, then it's time to bring your pet rock to the geologist for a checkup!
deknow
Youve had me up til now deknow. So if I choose to buy something it doesnt denote a responsibility to take care of it? I buy a car, but if I dont take care of it what kind of service can I expect out of it or how long would it last? I built my house....so I take care of it. I feed the bluebirds that are in also in my 'orbit' even though I didnt pay for them. However I gas the legs off of every fire ant hill that pops up in my 'orbit' simply because they are evil and hurt like a dickens. (If you dont have them up there yet, I can mail you some) So yes, I feel like that if a person has went so far as to buy a package of bees, have provided them a place to live and hopefully thrive, then it is their responsibility to take care of them. If it wasnt, then one should just bring them home and scatter them to the wind to fend for themselves. Be a lot less beehavers. What we we talk about on here? Wouldnt be any mite problems, no need for SC foundations or SBB. Shoot, we could even solve CCD that way. |
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Course Bee
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« Reply #56 on: January 02, 2011, 01:27:13 PM » |
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I'm guessing that you will learn one way or the other. If you don't open the hive and do some normal inspections then there is a good chance you will open up a dead hive and then try to learn by going online and looking at pictures of what happened to your bees. I prefer to try to learn from live bees, even if it does disturb them a little. There are many years of experience telling you that regular inspections are the best way to go. I'm going to listen.
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Tim
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kathyp
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« Reply #57 on: January 02, 2011, 01:47:19 PM » |
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deknow, i think that when you choose to keep a thing you have chosen to be responsible for it. i would not feel a responsibility to care for a hive that moved into my wall. i know of no redeeming value in termites, so i don't care for them....and i would not bring them in.  |
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"Nay, it [this constitution of government] must perish, if there be not that vital spirit in the people, which alone can nourish, sustain, and direct all its movements. It is in vain, that statesmen shall form plans of government, in which the beauty and harmony of a republic shall be embodied in visible order, shall be built up on solid substructions, and adorned by every useful ornament, if the inhabitants suffer the silent power of time to dilapidate its walls, or crumble its massy supporters into dust; if the assaults from without are never resisted, and the rottenness and mining from within are never guarded against. Who can preserve the rights and liberties of the people, when they shall be abandoned by themselves? Who shall keep watch in the temple, when the watchmen sleep at their posts? Who shall call upon the people to redeem their possessions, and revive the republic, when their own hands have deliberately and corruptly surrendered them to the oppressor, and have built the prisons, or dug the graves of their own friends?
– Justice Joseph Story, "Commentaries on the Constitution of the United States," Volume II, Chapter XIII: Mode of Passing Laws, Sections 900-901, pp. 364 (1833)
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Acebird
Field Bee
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« Reply #58 on: January 02, 2011, 02:41:42 PM » |
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Never thought I would do it!
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T Beek
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« Reply #59 on: January 02, 2011, 06:10:58 PM » |
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Good discussion with some very relevent information for new and old beeks, sorry I discovered so late. I was reading a couple books thomas |
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"Trust those who seek the truth, doubt those who say they've found it."
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