Need Bees Removed?
International
Beekeeping Forums
November 23, 2014, 09:44:35 AM *
Welcome, Guest. Please login or register.
Did you miss your activation email?

Login with username, password and session length
News: Beemaster's official FACEBOOK page
 
   Home   Help Search Calendar bee removal Login Register Chat  

Pages: 1 2 [3] 4 5   Go Down
  Print  
Author Topic: New Ramblings for 2011  (Read 7156 times)
Acebird
Field Bee
***
Offline Offline

Gender: Male
Posts: 955


Location: Utica, NY

Just getting started


« Reply #40 on: January 05, 2011, 04:39:30 PM »

Quote
There just wouldn't be near as many IMO.


I don't believe that for one minute.  Food source has to have something to do with their survival.  If you stop tearing down the forest, and stop filling in wet lands, and stop planting corn the bees would thrive.  The more we wreck their habitat the less there will be of them no matter how many boxes we build and how many pounds of sweater we feed them.
Logged

Never thought I would do it!
hardwood
Galactic Bee
******
Offline Offline

Gender: Male
Posts: 3482


Location: Osteen, Fl (just south of Daytona)

Alysian Apiaries youtube.com/MrBeedude


« Reply #41 on: January 05, 2011, 04:48:27 PM »

Kinda the same as Farmers assn and garden clubs.

Scott
Logged

"In the first place, we should insist that if the immigrant who comes here in good faith becomes an American and assimilates himself to us, he shall be treated on an exact equality with everyone else, for it is an outrage to discriminate against any such man because of creed, or birthplace, or origin. But this is predicated upon the person's becoming in every facet an American, and nothing but an American...There can be no divided allegiance here. Any man who says he is an American, but something else also, isn't an American at all. We have room for but one flag, the American flag...We have room for but one language here, and that is the English language...And we have room for but one sole loyalty and that is a loyalty to the American people."

Theodore Roosevelt 1907
Acebird
Field Bee
***
Offline Offline

Gender: Male
Posts: 955


Location: Utica, NY

Just getting started


« Reply #42 on: January 05, 2011, 04:49:59 PM »

Quote
then start a new association.

I could be wrong, but it seems to me if you start a new association you are going to have a smaller group who agree on their ideals but have little say.  My vote is to have one association but you duke it out with the big guys.  You have to keep an ear and and an eye to what they are doing because it could affect you.
Logged

Never thought I would do it!
T Beek
Super Bee
*****
Offline Offline

Gender: Male
Posts: 2776


Location: USA, N/W Wisconsin


« Reply #43 on: January 05, 2011, 06:20:53 PM »

I believe that if us humans quit keeping bees that only 0.001% of the bees outside of the range of AHB would survive to a 5 year period.   AHB swarm and move too much for pests to do much harm to the hive.

that's about what I'd expect as well AllenF.  its humans who proliferate the honeybee, the sick ones and the not so sick for all kinds of reasons.

I'd expect those ferrels that currently winter over in "Northern" climes would eventually die out without local beeks assisting with the genetic pool every year Smiley

thomas
Logged

"Trust those who seek the truth, doubt those who say they've found it."
BjornBee
Galactic Bee
******
Offline Offline

Gender: Male
Posts: 3773


Location: Lewisberry, PA


« Reply #44 on: January 05, 2011, 07:14:43 PM »

I believe that if us humans quit keeping bees that only 0.001% of the bees outside of the range of AHB would survive to a 5 year period.   AHB swarm and move too much for pests to do much harm to the hive.

that's about what I'd expect as well AllenF.  its humans who proliferate the honeybee, the sick ones and the not so sick for all kinds of reasons.

I'd expect those ferrels that currently winter over in "Northern" climes would eventually die out without local beeks assisting with the genetic pool every year Smiley

thomas

I agree.

I took part in a three year study of feral bees. One clear thing was seen. the further you got from what some claim as "destruction"...that being farmland and other urban areas, the fewer and fewer bees there were. fact is, deep forest and areas void of human intervention, just does not produce much for bees to survive. After the trees bloom in forest there just isn't much the rest of the year. And while you may get a scattering of one plant or another, you would not get near anything like weeds and meadow plants you get when fields and other areas are left behind after human use.

I think bees would survive in warmer climates just fine. Most bees are from very temperate areas. In colder regions, I think you may have some, but nothing what we have today in the wild. I've said it before, if you circle a 10 mile radius around every beeyard in Pennsylvania (or any state), there would be few areas where bees are not being influenced, impacted, and perpetuated by beekeepers and issued swarms.

BTW...not much remains from a genetic pool after AHBs move into an area. While non-AFB bees may provide a wide range of genetics, AFB dominates and pushes out all other genetic material. We may of lost a great variation of  genetics from survivor bees being lost to the spread of AHBs. Those genetic variations lost could of been the answer to problems down the road.
Logged

www.bjornapiaries.com
www.pennapic.org
Please Support "National Honey Bee Day"
Northern States Queen Breeders Assoc.  www.nsqba.com
BjornBee
Galactic Bee
******
Offline Offline

Gender: Male
Posts: 3773


Location: Lewisberry, PA


« Reply #45 on: January 06, 2011, 08:09:31 AM »

I agree with your first statement but what does an association do that would warrent the separation?

If you are a commercial beek and the discussions are all about how to care for a hive and what to do with wax, or if you are a hobby beek and the discussions are about trucking hives, pollination, and types of 80 frame extractors, and you aren't given any say in the topics but have a strong opinion about it, then start a new association.

Here, here!  cheer

There is nothing wrong with any new association. Each can offer different things, different approaches, and different opportunities for the beekeepers. Just as having more than one store to shop, or one business to offer a service, the consumer (this case...the beekeeper) can select, support, and join, the association of their choice.

Logged

www.bjornapiaries.com
www.pennapic.org
Please Support "National Honey Bee Day"
Northern States Queen Breeders Assoc.  www.nsqba.com
Acebird
Field Bee
***
Offline Offline

Gender: Male
Posts: 955


Location: Utica, NY

Just getting started


« Reply #46 on: January 06, 2011, 08:38:31 AM »

Quote
the consumer (this case...the beekeeper) can select, support, and join, the association of their choice.

I thought an association was a collective group (meeting of the minds so to speak) that would act on the behalf of all.  If it is not, how does it differ from any normal club?  If you break up into smaller specialized groups you will be happy with yourselves but you will be powerless to affect the whole.
Logged

Never thought I would do it!
D Coates
Queen Bee
****
Offline Offline

Gender: Male
Posts: 1073


Location: Lee's Summit, MO


« Reply #47 on: January 06, 2011, 11:36:24 AM »

An Association is a fancy name for club in my definition.  When a club or association becomes to large of diverse to act on the behalf of all it splits much like a swarm.  A bunch of hobbyists they can't speak effectively for commercial and visa versa.  Duking it out isn't an option as an agreement will not be reached.  I'm not afraid of conflict but having to listen to some newbee with a hive preach to me on what I'm doing wrong is simply not going to end well.  Likeminded individuals form an association of their own to perpetuate their similar ideas/ideals.  It's also a great way to reduce the 10%.
« Last Edit: January 06, 2011, 01:01:52 PM by D Coates » Logged

Ninja, is not in the dictionary.  Well played Ninja's, well played...
Scadsobees
Galactic Bee
******
Offline Offline

Gender: Male
Posts: 3198


Location: Jenison, MI

Best use of smileys in a post award.


« Reply #48 on: January 06, 2011, 12:43:59 PM »


I thought an association was a collective group (meeting of the minds so to speak) that would act on the behalf of all.  If it is not, how does it differ from any normal club?  If you break up into smaller specialized groups you will be happy with yourselves but you will be powerless to affect the whole.

I think an association and club, association and board, are sometimes interchangeable.

There are boards that are mandatory if you want to sell stuff (there's a cattle board, milk board, some have proposed a honey board) and speak for everybody even if you disagree and you still are forced to pay.  There are homeowner's associates which you must join when moving into certain neighborhoods.

There are american cancer, american diabetes, and national rifle associations which are voluntary but have grown so they can have a large affect.  But you are welcome to set up similar associations.

The way things are done in the honey hobby versus in the honey industry (defined here as those who's lively hood depends on it and have more than a few hundred hives)  are so different that a) I don't want the industry affecting my hobby and b) I don't think my hobby has any right affecting the industry.
Logged

Rick
VolunteerK9
Super Bee
*****
Offline Offline

Gender: Male
Posts: 1647

Location: Southeast Tennessee

Gamecock fan in UT land.


« Reply #49 on: January 06, 2011, 01:19:20 PM »





The way things are done in the honey hobby versus in the honey industry (defined here as those who's lively hood depends on it and have more than a few hundred hives)  are so different that a) I don't want the industry affecting my hobby and b) I don't think my hobby has any right affecting the industry.

I agree with you, but how can the industry not affect my hobby when the industry has the largest voice?
Logged
D Coates
Queen Bee
****
Offline Offline

Gender: Male
Posts: 1073


Location: Lee's Summit, MO


« Reply #50 on: January 06, 2011, 02:10:46 PM »

It undoubtedly will.  But if your livelyhood was being made with bees what would you think of hobbyists trying to affect your business?  Fare is only in the dictionary, the bigger you are you louder your voice.  I've got only +5 years under my belt, +/- 15 hives, but I know my place in the big picture.
Logged

Ninja, is not in the dictionary.  Well played Ninja's, well played...
HomeBru
House Bee
**
Offline Offline

Gender: Male
Posts: 137

Location: Chesterton, IN


WWW
« Reply #51 on: January 06, 2011, 02:23:03 PM »

Bjorn, do you know which club in Indiana became which group? I went to meetings of both groups last year and they were both pretty heavy on production and making $$$. I wasn't really impressed with either, they took my money, I didn't win the drawing and watched them open up a nuc then everyone sat in small groups just like middle school. Not sure what I expected, but I wasn't really impressed.
Logged
VolunteerK9
Super Bee
*****
Offline Offline

Gender: Male
Posts: 1647

Location: Southeast Tennessee

Gamecock fan in UT land.


« Reply #52 on: January 06, 2011, 02:24:16 PM »

It undoubtedly will.  But if your livelyhood was being made with bees what would you think of hobbyists trying to affect your business?  Fare is only in the dictionary, the bigger you are you louder your voice.  I've got only +5 years under my belt, +/- 15 hives, but I know my place in the big picture.


Yup, if this was my career (hope it will be +/- 12 years when I retire), then my attitude would be different. When something is your bread and butter, you take things far more seriously than as a hobby. We used to have Reserve Police officers before they done away with the program. (gladly so) Reserve officers would get you in far more crap than your daily partner. They had a different look on things because it wasnt their primary source of income.
Logged
T Beek
Super Bee
*****
Offline Offline

Gender: Male
Posts: 2776


Location: USA, N/W Wisconsin


« Reply #53 on: January 06, 2011, 03:00:19 PM »

We can have fragmented parts (individuals, clubs and associations) as needed and a giant whole (Unions and federations) when neccessary. 

Although much of the history has been distorted or completely AWOL from text books we should never forgot the power of unionizing (just gotta keep the Chamber of Commerce out of the meetings somehow grin)

thomas
Logged

"Trust those who seek the truth, doubt those who say they've found it."
BjornBee
Galactic Bee
******
Offline Offline

Gender: Male
Posts: 3773


Location: Lewisberry, PA


« Reply #54 on: January 06, 2011, 03:46:57 PM »

Bjorn, do you know which club in Indiana became which group? I went to meetings of both groups last year and they were both pretty heavy on production and making $$$. I wasn't really impressed with either, they took my money, I didn't win the drawing and watched them open up a nuc then everyone sat in small groups just like middle school. Not sure what I expected, but I wasn't really impressed.

I am very certain that the association using the designation "State" was the first. There can only be one official "state" organization. That is why the other association just simply dropped the term.

I am sorry to hear that about the associations. And I hope you voice your concern. It is almost automatic for some to assume the state associations should ignore the backyard beekeepers, leaving it to the local or county associations to do their bidding. But I am sure most state associations are like Pennsylvania, where 98% of the state membership is comprised of hobbyists. Something a few forget. Making the separation and the alienation between the groups very evident, specially when the 2% rule the roost. It may take enough people banding together to either change the direction, or starting a new association once again. And sometimes, even a majority can not get the necessary change.

« Last Edit: January 06, 2011, 03:57:15 PM by BjornBee » Logged

www.bjornapiaries.com
www.pennapic.org
Please Support "National Honey Bee Day"
Northern States Queen Breeders Assoc.  www.nsqba.com
Acebird
Field Bee
***
Offline Offline

Gender: Male
Posts: 955


Location: Utica, NY

Just getting started


« Reply #55 on: January 06, 2011, 04:23:05 PM »

Quote
are so different that a) I don't want the industry affecting my hobby and b) I don't think my hobby has any right affecting the industry.

I am not so sure that can happen.

Here in the state of New York we lack a definition for "honey".  You can practically drop a teaspoon of honey in a bottle of corn syrup and call it natural honey.  We are seeking the help of the farm beauro because they already have representation in Albany.  We are hopeful something will get through.  I don't see why that would be beneficial to all groups.
Logged

Never thought I would do it!
D Coates
Queen Bee
****
Offline Offline

Gender: Male
Posts: 1073


Location: Lee's Summit, MO


« Reply #56 on: January 06, 2011, 05:18:03 PM »

While getting the definition of "honey" on the books is a step in proper direction in my view but unless there is an organization to police it, it's kinda useless.  There are plenty of rules already on the books for just about everything and crooks and scoundrels get around them all the time.  If there's a financial incentive unscrupulous people will find a way to exploit it.  The definition does at least set the standard by which they can be held accountable if someone calls them on the carpet.
Logged

Ninja, is not in the dictionary.  Well played Ninja's, well played...
T Beek
Super Bee
*****
Offline Offline

Gender: Male
Posts: 2776


Location: USA, N/W Wisconsin


« Reply #57 on: January 06, 2011, 05:37:59 PM »

Now that's what I call "nailin' it."  thanks D Coates

thomas
Logged

"Trust those who seek the truth, doubt those who say they've found it."
Yuleluder
House Bee
**
Offline Offline

Gender: Male
Posts: 50


Location: Schuylkill County, PA


WWW
« Reply #58 on: January 06, 2011, 05:38:17 PM »

fact is, deep forest and areas void of human intervention, just does not produce much for bees to survive. After the trees bloom in forest there just isn't much the rest of the year. And while you may get a scattering of one plant or another, you would not get near anything like weeds and meadow plants you get when fields and other areas are left behind after human use.

You describe an area very similar to where my bees are placed.  The flow is very strong from mid April to early June and then there isn't anything.  I've positioned my hives around a forested park in montogomery county where there are thousands of tulip poplars.  I tell all the new beeks in the area to keep a good eye on their bees in July because the stores can be consumed quickly and they will starve.  There is aster and golden rod along the roads and in open fields in the fall, however it does not produce nearly as much nectar as it does pollen. Any colony that completely shuts down brood rearing during the dearth will not be strong enough to gather the limited fall nectar.  I do have colonies who put up 4 and 5 deeps worth of bees and honey by mid June.  I usually harvest 1 or two deeps and leave the other two or three. They do not need any feed come fall.  I think there would probably be some areas of a forest where bees could survive.  The forest would have to have the right type of nectar producing trees and shrubs along with well adapted bees.

What types of trees dominated the forests you were testing in?  






Logged

Acebird
Field Bee
***
Offline Offline

Gender: Male
Posts: 955


Location: Utica, NY

Just getting started


« Reply #59 on: January 06, 2011, 06:09:36 PM »

Quote
The definition does at least set the standard by which they can be held accountable if someone calls them on the carpet.

That is right.  You have to start with something.  You can't police a law that doesn't exist.
I lot has to do with the consumer.  If there is no definition of honey then you can't get the consumer involved.  the consumer can be the police force.  But you have to have a standard even if it isn't perfect.
Logged

Never thought I would do it!
Pages: 1 2 [3] 4 5   Go Up
  Print  
 
Jump to:  

Beemaster's Beekeeping Ring
Previous | Home | Join | Random | Next
Powered by MySQL Powered by PHP Powered by SMF 1.1.20 | SMF © 2013, Simple Machines | Sitemap Valid XHTML 1.0! Valid CSS!
Page created in 0.456 seconds with 22 queries.

Google visited last this page November 16, 2014, 04:12:08 PM