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Author Topic: Varroa Resistance Question  (Read 3009 times)
annette
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« Reply #20 on: December 23, 2010, 10:25:08 PM »

Be careful about that. I did powder sugar dust them once when it was 50 and they were very lethargic and when the sugar covered them, they just rolled around in it and could not fly to get the sugar off of them. It was horrible to watch and I ended up losing this good hive.

I know that some species of honey bees can fly ok in 50, but not mine.

annette,
Are you sure that white powder was really sugar...  rolleyes

Maybe you got the bags mixed.  shocked
evil evil
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AR Beekeeper
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« Reply #21 on: December 24, 2010, 12:06:32 PM »

Annette, when I was young and living in Souther California my neighbor would tell me stories about his being born and growing up in Hang Town before it changed it's name.  I hope it is not as wild now!
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FRAMEshift
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« Reply #22 on: December 24, 2010, 05:36:27 PM »

It seems that you are saying that small cell will eliminate or reduce the issue of varroa but that people dismiss it in their striving for varroa resistance.  I have started trying to introduce foundationless frames into my hive, but it seems the bees still build pretty big cells in it.  
If you put a foundationless frame in a hive with a bunch of 5.4mm drawn foundation, the bees are going to make pretty large cells to start with.  The bees themselves are large, since they came out of large cell, so they are going to make pretty big cells... maybe 5.1 mm.  And since the foundation has not afforded them an easy opportunity to make drone cells, the first thing they do when they have a chance to make their own comb is to make lots of drone cells.

To get the bees to make natural comb, the bees need to be hatched from smaller than 5.4 mm cells or given lots of encouragement.  One way to encourage them is to put them on Mann Lake PF plastic comb with 4.95 mm cells.  This guides them to draw the smallest cells they are capable of.  Then you can start adding foundationless between the pf frames.

But as long as you leave standard foundation in the hive, you will continue to make big bees.  That's the hardest thing about getting to natural cell or small cell.  You have to get the old comb out of the hive.  That hurts because drawn comb is such a valuable commodity, but it's better to get it out as soon as possible.  You can move it to the sides and up over time, or just trash it.  I would say trash it if you are able.

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annette
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« Reply #23 on: December 24, 2010, 09:58:44 PM »

Annette, when I was young and living in Souther California my neighbor would tell me stories about his being born and growing up in Hang Town before it changed it's name.  I hope it is not as wild now!


Wow, what year was that??  No it is a peaceful, pretty place. No shootings or hangings going on anymore. Except once in a while!! grin
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Brian D. Bray
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« Reply #24 on: December 24, 2010, 10:13:49 PM »

If you want them "mite resistant" you must "stop treating for mites" in order to allow bees to develope such resistance.

thomas

There is much to swallow from all the comments.

What does "stop treatments" mean? What about "Doing nothing"? Not treating with chemicals...what is that? Is it as one person suggested "letting the weak just die"?

I do not treat when someone is talking about mite chemical treatments. But that only goes as far as "not treating" when it comes to applying chemicals. But do I "treat"? Yes. I manage and influence the health of my bees in many ways. And they all would be considered a "treatment".

I influence where they sit (sun versus shade)
I influence what equipment they use (Screened bottom board)
I influence how often they get a new queen (Feral colonies requeen almost EVERY year)
I influence genetics by keeping more bees in some areas that what they would in nature.
I expand, contract, and change the brood chamber to benefit me, effecting the brood cycle and mite production.
I keep bees in weak r-value hives that may need additional management to optimize survival chances.
I effect the bees in how they draw comb.
I keep bees in areas they may not otherwise survive, thrive, select, or prosper.

Very good BjornBee.  Then selecting from those that preform/survive the best to raise your queens from for the remainder of your hives.  Other means of managing for varroa is breaking the brood cycle.  But the use of chemicals is an artificial prop that does more damage to the bees than doing nothing, but some sort of BMP, as you've listed is necessary.

Quote
I do not like when people suggest "No treatments" is little more doing nothing and letting the weak die. I never plan on letting any hives die. I manage my hives and part of my IPM is actively culling out the weak myself, by requeening, combining, etc. Yes, it is easy to manage mite IPM. And much harder to manage viral and other IPM areas.

While I allow mother nature to cull out the weakest in winter, it does mean doing nothing. It means that there are bee issues that I could not control even if I wanted. I think we can select for traits beneficial for regional acclimation, and a hands off approach for these traits is one best taken.
But allowing bees to just die out due to mite issues is for what purpose? I would rather promote the raising of better queens, requeening those hives failing to handle mites, and taking an active role in what continues, what is eliminated, etc.

It's not about just standing back and allowing hives to die.

Do I put chemicals in my hives that do nothing but help perpetuate weak genetics? No. But do I "treat" my bees and take an active approach in IPM to achieve certain goals and allow the bees to survive? You bet.

A neighbor a little over a 1/2 mile down the road from me used to have 9 hives in his pasture 4 years ago.  I have 5 in mine starting 4 years  ago.  Now I have 5 and he has 3, doing nothing with the bees.  You could say what he has now is survivor stock but the reality is that the forage area shared between my hives and his will suppor no more than 9 hives.  Who loses bees in such a situatiion is due to the management practices of the respective beekeepers.
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Joelel
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« Reply #25 on: December 26, 2010, 12:29:01 AM »

All I have to say is, only the strong survive. Keep strong queens and the hive will be strong and survive and overcome.We are treatment free.

 piano
« Last Edit: December 27, 2010, 11:46:00 AM by Joelel » Logged

Acts2:37: Now when they heard this, they were pricked in their heart, and said unto Peter and to the rest of the apostles, Men and brethren, what shall we do?
38: Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.
39: For the promise is unto you, and to your children, and to all that are afar off, even as many as the Lord our God shall call.
40: And with many other words did he testify and exhort, saying, Save yourselves from this untoward generation
rdy-b
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« Reply #26 on: December 26, 2010, 12:45:39 AM »

 delivery  mery xmas JOELEL - cool RDY-B
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VolunteerK9
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« Reply #27 on: December 26, 2010, 11:26:15 AM »




Wow, what year was that??  No it is a peaceful, pretty place. No shootings or hangings going on anymore. Except once in a while!! grin



Until you mess with the umbrella, then you wind up like the poor chap in the picture
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annette
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« Reply #28 on: December 26, 2010, 11:56:44 AM »

 grin grin
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AllenF
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« Reply #29 on: December 26, 2010, 04:16:30 PM »

That pic about blew my mind.   Just something you would not see here in the South (anymore).  Grandpa use to tell us about the lynchings.
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Michael Bush
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« Reply #30 on: December 26, 2010, 10:07:36 PM »

>Do you have a link about transitioning your hive to natural cell?

http://bushfarms.com/beesnaturalcell.htm#HowToRegress
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Michael Bush
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Joelel
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« Reply #31 on: December 27, 2010, 11:42:32 AM »

Remember Jesus at Christmas and every day and Happy Holidays Everyone.
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Acts2:37: Now when they heard this, they were pricked in their heart, and said unto Peter and to the rest of the apostles, Men and brethren, what shall we do?
38: Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.
39: For the promise is unto you, and to your children, and to all that are afar off, even as many as the Lord our God shall call.
40: And with many other words did he testify and exhort, saying, Save yourselves from this untoward generation
sawbrair
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« Reply #32 on: December 27, 2010, 12:42:17 PM »

What time of year is best to start putting in foundationless frames? If my hives make it through the winter can I start doing as M Bush said in his link as soon as it starts to warm?
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Michael Bush
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« Reply #33 on: December 27, 2010, 09:18:13 PM »

I would not put any foundationless frames in until you start seeing some white wax.  Until then they are not building comb and you will just be stressing them by making them work harder at keeping things warm.  As soon as you see white wax, it's a good time to add some.  If you can make a gap in the brood nest and they fill it with festooning bees quikcly you can add them to the middle of the brood nest.
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Michael Bush
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rdy-b
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« Reply #34 on: December 27, 2010, 09:50:44 PM »

wouldn't hurt to give them some thin syrup when this takes place-white wax is a beautiful thing  cool RDY-B
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