feeding honey to bees

[Acebird]

I have read that feeding honey to bees can spread AFB.  Some people do and that is our intention as well but could someone explain how feeding the bees the honey that they would eat themselves spreads AFB?

[bigbearomaha]

eating honey form other hives can do that.  feeding honey back from same hive is usually considered safer.

[Acebird]

OK, I will buy that.

[Michael Bush]

In my opinion the object is to LEAVE them honey, not feed them honey... that said I'm sure honey is better than sugar.  If you know the source of the honey (i.e. it's yours) then I wouldn't worry so much about it, but still the best thing is to LEAVE them enough.

[Acebird]

but still the best thing is to LEAVE them enough.

Yeah, and the question still remains how much is that?  I have seen, heard, read that too much is not good either.  One could say that if you take the honey you can always introduce it as needed.  If you leave it and they don’t need it predators and pest may be attracted to it.

[JP]

I'd rather leave too much than not enough. Ace, if you're worried about pests use mouse guards.


...JP

[Acebird]

JP I made a mouse guard for my hive.  Your winters can't be more than 8 weeks long in Louisiana.  So I am thinking that guessing how much to leave can't be as critical as up north.  Up here in my location it is common to winter over with two deeps.  Some even do it with one but they are taking a chance not knowing how long the winter will be.

[T Beek]

You can take frames of honey from a strong colony and give them to a weak ones, they won't mind a bit, least not so you'd notice. Another good reason for using all or mostly mediums.

thomas

[Acebird]

eating honey form other hives can do that.  feeding honey back from same hive is usually considered safer.

What about this?  Does it make any difference if the honey is in a frame?  Seems to me it would be worse.

[T Beek]

that's the only way I'd feed my bees honey, on a frame from another of my own colonies.

thomas

[Scadsobees]

Too much honey is better than not enough, and just perfect is sure a hard number to hit  .  They use lots in the spring, and if there was too much, then they'll leave it there and you can extract it the next year.

[fat/beeman]

I try to leave lot on hives my self and use for splitting in spring.you can feed honey back =but don't dilute it it can and will ferment. as far as AFB if you feed your own back there's no problems.not sure if a human can or could get AFB because it it a spore found mostly in the brood.
Don

[Michael Bush]

How much depends entirely on your locale.  Ask around.

http://www.bushfarms.com/beeslocality.htm

[deknow]

unfortunately, many (if not most) large commercial operations (where most of the honey available comes from) as well as many, many other operations treat routinely with terramicyn as a prophylactic treatement for AFB...this has at least two effects worth noting:

1.  AFB is not detected by the beekeeper (or if it is, another treatment is administered) yet is present throughout the apiary.  Anyone who says, "I tried not using TM, but got AFB...now I treat routinely" most likely has a "suppressed" AFB infection, and there are probably enough spores throughout the hive to cause a problem if the honey is fed to an untreated colony.

2.  In such a situation, TM is likely used whenever symptoms are seen by the beekeeper.  TM gets into the honey, and if the honey is fed to your hives, you are having some impact on the microflora that provides some defense against...AFB (whos spores are also present in the honey).

Aside from these issues, feeding honey is a not a problem.  If you buy honey from the dollar store to feed your bees, i'd expect problems.  If you buy honey from another beekeeper who does not have AFB, and does not treat with TM, there isn't much risk.  Knowing where the honey actually comes from and under what conditions it is produced is the hard part.

deknow

[Acebird]

I thought if you got AFB you are forced to burn the hive.  Am I wrong?

[Robo]

I thought if you got AFB you are forced to burn the hive.  Am I wrong?

Yes.

Who is going to force you to burn them?  It may be the law in some states,  or the recommended procedure,  but especially here in NY,  there is no one enforcing it.

There are other methods besides burning to rid the spores from your equipment.   There is also claims of shaking the bees onto new foundation as a means to overcome AFB for a colony.

[deknow]

I thought if you got AFB you are forced to burn the hive.

you are required to (you live in NY)
i am allowed to "treat" as long as i keep the infection under control (in massachusetts).

in either case, the routine use of TM will "prevent" breakouts, but will not kill spores...it also negatively affects the microflora (bacillus in the honey stomach specifically) that seems to fight AFB infections.

deknow

[Acebird]

Who is going to force you to burn them?  It may be the law in some states,  or the recommended procedure,  but especially here in NY,  there is no one enforcing it.

This is what I was told, have no idea how true it is.

In the state of New York the only accepted treatment for AFB is burning the hive in the presence of a state inspector.  How is it enforced?  If someone turns you in.  At the present time inspections are voluntary but encouraged.

[Acebird]

 

There is also claims of shaking the bees onto new foundation as a means to overcome AFB for a colony.

Huh    The spores are going to stay with the old foundation? 
Seems to me that is a way to spread it not contain it.

[deknow]

Huh    The spores are going to stay with the old foundation? 
Seems to me that is a way to spread it not contain it.

it seems that way because you don't have even a basic understanding of what you are talking about.  you can learn a lot with a google search.

deknow

[Robo]

In the state of New York the only accepted treatment for AFB is burning the hive in the presence of a state inspector.  How is it enforced?  If someone turns you in.  At the present time inspections are voluntary but encouraged.

Since there is no state inspector for my area anymore,  guess I can't burn it even if I had it......

And I must say I prefer it that way.  Especially after having corrupt inspectors.  It was amazing that only those that where getting big enough to compete with the inspectors honey business would find yards completely burned "due to AFB".

Big government at it's best......

[Michael Bush]

>I thought if you got AFB you are forced to burn the hive.  Am I wrong?

In Nebraska if you find it you are required to treat with Terramycin or burn, your choice.  If you are not treating when the inspector finds it you can be required to burn, his choice.

[Acebird]

It was amazing that only those that where getting big enough to compete with the inspectors honey business would find yards completely burned "due to AFB".

If it were big government the inspector would not be allowed to own or run a business that is competing in the industry he / she is inspecting.  It is because it is small government that this happens.

[Robo]

If it were big government the inspector would not be allowed to own or run a business that is competing in the industry he / she is inspecting.  It is because it is small government that this happens.

Wrong....

New York just went through that the last time around where the inspectors could not own or run a beekeeping business.  So either they couldn't find enough inspectors to cover all areas, you get inspectors that are in it for the power, or you get inspectors that have no practical experience and go by what they read in a book. We all know where that gets us.

I'm not saying there aren't any good inspectors, but there surely isn't enough of them, and a lot of them have their hands tied by the system.

It should not be my responsibility to invest my time in educating a government employee on current methods and then get their permission to do what I have been doing successfully for years.  Now they want you to "voluntarily"  register your hives, why?  Because next there will be a fee for them to collect.

It is very seldom that anything good comes out of regulation,  and it seems that they just want to keep piling on more,  which continually increase the cost.

[fat/beeman]

think we getting off topic.feeding corn syrup one thing I wont do.reason genome altered corn.and raising queens seems to give diarrhea to bees. honey is about best for making splits or overwintering bees.feeding watered down sugar puts too moisture in hives thus killing off bees.
Don

[Acebird]

It is very seldom that anything good comes out of regulation,

You think we should buy prescription drugs on the streets or from the cartels in Mexico?

I think your ego is getting involved here.  You don't need to be a bee keeper to be an inspector.  That is your hang up.  You only need to know what your are looking for to be effective.  99% of all inspections are done by reading documentation (that the manufacturer wrote) and verifying that they actually did it, usually by other supporting documents (again, that the manufacturer wrote).  Very little actually hive inspections need to be done.  If there is a problem it shows up in the documents or the attempted cover up.  Apparently you don't know much about effective inspections.  You are just another bee keeper.

Sorry fat/beeman we did get off topic.

[deknow]

You don't need to be a bee keeper to be an inspector.  That is your hang up.  You only need to know what your are looking for to be effective.  99% of all inspections are done by reading documentation (that the manufacturer wrote) and verifying that they actually did it, usually by other supporting documents (again, that the manufacturer wrote). 

...i've got lots of documentation on bees, but none of it is written by "the manufacturer".

this really shows your ignorance.  no further comment is needed, you have said it all yourself.

deknow

[luvin honey]

It is very seldom that anything good comes out of regulation,

You think we should buy prescription drugs on the streets or from the cartels in Mexico?

I think your ego is getting involved here.  You don't need to be a bee keeper to be an inspector.  That is your hang up.  You only need to know what your are looking for to be effective.  99% of all inspections are done by reading documentation (that the manufacturer wrote) and verifying that they actually did it, usually by other supporting documents (again, that the manufacturer wrote).  Very little actually hive inspections need to be done.  If there is a problem it shows up in the documents or the attempted cover up.  Apparently you don't know much about effective inspections.  You are just another bee keeper.

Sorry fat/beeman we did get off topic.

Holy cow, Acebird. Are you a troll? Did you come to this forum to learn anything or just to keep on and keep on and keep on telling us all that you "know?" And speaking of egos and hang-ups...

[T Beek]

 .......Bravo again luvin honey.  

And what does any of the above have to do with the topic; feeding honey to bees?

thomas

[Acebird]

Holy cow, Acebird. Are you a troll?

I came to this site to learn all I can about bee keeping and express my personal views so they can either be rejected or approved by discussion.  If that is a troll then I’m a troll.  Within the first few posts that I made as a newbee I got a few PM’s telling me who’s toes not to step on or I would be beat up on this forum by the gods and their followers.

You notice how it hurts me feelings…

[T Beek]

I learned some time ago that whenever someone speaks with "absolute" conviction (particularly when repeatedly contradicting themselves) it just means they need a bigger toothbrush

thomas

[Acebird]

I learned some time ago that whenever someone speaks with "absolute" conviction (particularly when repeatedly contradicting themselves) it just means they need a bigger toothbrush

And what does any of the above have to do with the topic; feeding honey to bees?

Start brushing...

[T Beek]

Holy cow, Acebird. Are you a troll?

I came to this site to learn all I can about bee keeping and express my personal views so they can either be rejected or approved by discussion.  If that is a troll then I’m a troll.  Within the first few posts that I made as a newbee I got a few PM’s telling me who’s toes not to step on or I would be beat up on this forum by the gods and their followers.

You notice how it hurts me feelings…

Acebird; your quickly proving (to me) that you are here for anything but learning something.  Your posts speak for themselves, unless you've done some editing .  Toxic is toxic, regardless of who, what or why its being spread around.

thomas

[TomP]

As a newbie on the forum and a late comer to this discussion, I cautiously want to add a bit about the original question of feeding honey to your bees.

Here is the response I received from Dianna Sammataro when I asked her the question what is the best thing to feed a beehive:
"Honey is always best as long as you know it has no foulbrood spores (they last 80 years), next is sucrose, in either form since no one has looked at beet vs. cane sugar but sucrose is what is naturally in nectar so they do well on it. Frames of honey are best if you have clean honey stored."

Dianna is a co-author of "The Beekeeper's Handbook Third Edition" and works at the Bee Research Lab in Tuscon, Arizona.  She has done research on the effects of honeybee feeding and the microflora in the honey gullet.  As of a year ago there was research pending publication talking about the changes in microflora

Tom

[Acebird]

next is sucrose, in either form since no one has looked at beet vs. cane sugar but sucrose is what is naturally in nectar so they do well on it.

Until recently I would agree that sugar from cane and sugar from beets would be equal but now that the beets are round up ready GMO I disagree.  I will always choose something non poisoned over poisoned.

[TomP]

Acebird says:

Until recently I would agree that sugar from cane and sugar from beets would be equal but now that the beets are round up ready GMO I disagree.  I will always choose something non poisoned over poisoned

I agree, I just wanted to put the quote from Diana exactly as she told me.