Gardening illegal?

[Vibe]

this all brings up another point.  looks like most of us learned our work/success/survival lessons from our families.  what are the children of the welfare class learning?  do we wonder why welfare has become a lifestyle choice for so many?

 Maybe a condition of living on welfare should be compulsary military service, in an actual combat zone.  Am I cruel and heartless?  I guess I am, but I was taught that if you want something, work for it.  If you are in serious need, that's what family is for.  It is NOT the government's job to take care of you.

a similar scenario has been put forth for a path to amnesty for illegal aliens.

Want something bad enough and it's amazing how hard one will WORK for it.

[Scadsobees]

this all brings up another point.  looks like most of us learned our work/success/survival lessons from our families.  what are the children of the welfare class learning?  do we wonder why welfare has become a lifestyle choice for so many?

I have family that milks the system.  They get public assistance, travel the circuit of churches looking for charity, and drive better vehicles than I drive (paid for by welfare, of course).  They laugh about it and say, "Why should we work?  They're paying us to stay home!"  People who make it a point to suckle at the public teat need to be put out in the wilderness and forgotten about.  They will either learn to take care of themselves or die off, a win-win situation for the rest of us.  Maybe a condition of living on welfare should be compulsary military service, in an actual combat zone.  Am I cruel and heartless?  I guess I am, but I was taught that if you want something, work for it.  If you are in serious need, that's what family is for.  It is NOT the government's job to take care of you.

Yeah, but do you know how HARD they need to work to milk the system that much??

[Brian D. Bray]

After spending 4 years overseas in service to Uncle Sam in such places as the Middle East, Far East,  and Southeast Asia, I returned to hear people sing the woes of the starving homeless.  When I pointed out that America's homeless was better off than much of the disadvantaged in foreign countries I was called heartless, cruel, and a liar.  But the fact remains true to this day, America's homeless are much better off than many of the poor people in 3rd world countries.
 
When my oldest daughter had the opportunity to spend a semester as an exchange student in Puebla, Mexico, I told her if she got the chance she should try to visit the people who live on the outskirts of the community.  One of her trips took her to the city dump where she observed and talked to entire families searching the garbage for bottles, metal, or anything that might be sold, traded, or bartered to get something to eat.  She was told that often the families she found searching the thrash heaps went 2-3 days at a time before finding enough materials to buy something to eat.  She also noticed that their homes were made of discarded junk.
Needless to say her eyes were opened once she overcame her shock and revultion.
Homes of discarded junk is the closest that the American homeless come to matching the poverty of the people in 2nd and 3rd world countries.  (I would classify Mexico as a 2nd world country)

I would venture to say, that if the world economy continues on it's present course (insurmountable deficit spending), most of the world middle and under class in 1st world countires will be forced backward into a mid 1800's type of life style.  Better have your shovels ready for digging both a well and a privy.  It will, however cure the obesity problem, hungry people who must spend all of their energy  obtaining their next meal won't have to being fat.

[Vibe]

When I pointed out that America's homeless was better off than much of the disadvantaged in foreign countries I was called heartless, cruel, and a liar.  But the fact remains true to this day, America's homeless are much better off than many of the poor people in 3rd world countries.

Ain't it amazing how facts don't seem to care if people consider them cruel or not.

[don2]

Can't say much for some of the replies on the subject at hand.
As for making it during hard times here is a little bit of my life story.
Although "We" didn't see it as hard times.
 First of all I was born in Atlanta Ga. on Dec 5 1941. Of course we had electricity in the city.
Before my second birthday in 1942 we moved 60 miles east of Atlanta to a farm. No electricity. 
We had an electric wringer type washer, my farther removed the electric moter and it was replaced with a 2&1/2 horse Briggs&Straton gas engine.
It was another 6 years before REA made it to our area. We had a chest type ice box with the sliding lids on top and the ice man came around twice a week. we had a milk cow for milk, butter and butter milk,chickens for for eggs and drum sticks and the rest. Raised our own beef and pork. Wheat for flour and corn for corn meal and live stock feed. Picked out own cotton. cooked with wood stove and heated with a fire place.
My poor Mother didn't get her electric stove for a long-long time. Had to prop the oven door shut with a sawmill slat. She and a couple of the older sisters would help her can in the summer time, over 100 jars of food. I'm not talking half pints and pints, these were nothing smaller than quarts up to one gallon.
There were 5 boys and six girls and 9 are still living. we have lost 2 Brothers.
By the way, the battery for the radio lasted about 6 Months and was larger than the average car battery.

Some people have a house payment that is more than my total income. Now that is really living, till they have to give it up.
don2/aka doak

[gunner7888]

"They used to grow food in Kansas
Now they want to grow it on the moon and eat it raw
I can see the day coming when even your home garden
Is gonna be against the law."  Bob Dylan

[Acebird]

till they have to give it up.

I am reading a book right now and I never ever read books.  It is “The Dirty Life” by Kristin Kimball.  It is about a modern day experience of the author making a go of it in our harsh Upstate similar to the life you described (returning to the old ways).  Of coarse this life isn’t for everyone but I think you will see more of it returning.  We personally are certainly aiming in that direction.  I will say this, back then your biggest concern was how nature was going to treat you and what chances you would have if it didn’t treat you so well.

Today you certainly have all that to worry about but in addition you have fellow man (corporate interest) that are out to squelch you or potentially poison the land that you own.  New York State has now lost most of its industry except agriculture and farming.  It still has predominately fertile soil and a good water supply.  Modern agriculture practices are taking their tole on the rich soil that we have but the newer concepts (which are actually very old) do bring hope for the future.  And then there is Hydrofracture.  This has the potential of destroying thousands upon thousands of acres of good land, such a waste.  Nature can wipe out a crop in a single storm but doesn’t usually destroy the land.  Fellow man can destroy it for darn near eternity.

How dumb does the human race have to get before it realizes the damage it causes?  Welfare will never destroy a country or a continent because it can be turned on and off in an instant.  Corporate greed can easily destroy the world.  In this last economic down turn we have all seen the extent of its sward.

Don2 I guess I am a younen to you.  You are about my brother’s age and I was born in 1953.  The real farmer was your parent’s age.  Don’t you wish you could pick their brain?  It would make it a lot easier.

[Brian D. Bray]

Don2

Yours sound a lot like my experience, I didn't know what inside plumbing was until 5 yrs old, grew up on a farm.  My Grandfather (1873-1957) taught me how to train horses and oxen to pull wagon etc.  I still raise my own chickens, turkeys, rabbits, and sheep for food plus orchard and garden.