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Author Topic: Gardening illegal?  (Read 5646 times)
iddee
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« Reply #40 on: December 20, 2010, 03:11:27 PM »

There is no one blinder than those who refuse to see.

No one is going to know how to better themselves if they have everything they are aware of now, and have no idea what having the better things are.

Those who have all the material things they want handed them will never have the satisfaction of self improvement, self accomplishment, pride in their work, ETC. Things lost the the hand fed forever.

And no, the 400 lb. woman with her 6 200 lb. preteens are not starving, I don't care if they haven't eaten today because the microwave oven broke.
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"Listen to the mustn'ts, child. Listen to the don'ts. Listen to the shouldn'ts, the impossibles, the won'ts. Listen to the never haves, then listen close to me . . . Anything can happen, child. Anything can be"

*Shel Silverstein*
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« Reply #41 on: December 20, 2010, 03:14:29 PM »

Well off is when you have an income that will sustain your way of life with no concern of ever loosing it.  Well off is being so arrogant that you can point the finger at someone else for being in an unfortunate situation and thinking it is their fault for being there.

Arrogance is looking at people and assume that they don't have the basic ability to better themselves.

Everybody here would give a person a fish.  But only if that person was willing to learn HOW TO fish.
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Rick
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« Reply #42 on: December 20, 2010, 03:48:48 PM »

http://feedingamerica.org/faces-of-hunger/real-stories.aspx

It is not hard to find especially in these times.

That opportunity of making it out of poverty from nothing with no assistance today is considerably less than it was back then.  Your making an assumption because you know you would never have to prove it.  Your well off.

Tell us now, howd you get there?  There might be some misfortunate people that would like to hear your secrete.
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Never thought I would do it!
kathyp
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« Reply #43 on: December 20, 2010, 04:31:11 PM »

define well off.  the person who makes 300,000 dollars and is in debt, is not better off than i.  they probably have  more stuff, but that is not my definition of well off.

there is no secret.  it is done as Michael describes it.  you live within your means.  no stuff you do not need.  no debt.  every single penny that you can save, you save.  you make a distinction between wants and needs.  then you figure out how to meet your needs at the lowest possible cost.  turn the heat down.  turn the lights off.  walk to the store. take the bus to work.  buy food from the discount stores.  grow your own if you have space. eat a lot of PBJ and chicken soup.
be willing to make changes.  we left active duty military so that my husband could get his degree.  we went from an income that at least put food on the table, to an income of 0.  we had to move, so we had no home and support. we also had two kids.  it was a bit of a leap of faith smiley.  by the time he was done with school, we had massive student loan debt.  it was the only debt other than a house that we have ever had.  we agreed to put most of his early salary toward it so that it could be paid off quickly.   

it's not harder to do now.  it is the same in any time.  i am not that old  evil 

you seem to think there is some magic "well off" number.  i can honestly say that even when we were at our poorest, i did not feel uncomfortable.  i knew that everything we were doing was toward a better life and it would pay off. 
you are correct, though.  i will never have to prove it because i have already proved it can be done.  if i had to do it again, i could.

it's about choices.  if you don't think you can do it, you can't.  if you think you need help to do it, you won't.

the first step might be figuring out what you think you need to be comfortable.  if you are uncomfortable where you are, maybe that needs to  be fixed first. 

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.....The greatest changes occur in their country without their cooperation. They are not even aware of precisely what has taken place. They suspect it; they have heard of the event by chance. More than that, they are unconcerned with the fortunes of their village, the safety of their streets, the fate of their church and its vestry. They think that such things have nothing to do with them, that they belong to a powerful stranger called “the government.” They enjoy these goods as tenants, without a sense of ownership, and never give a thought to how they might be improved.....

 Alexis de Tocqueville
kathyp
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« Reply #44 on: December 20, 2010, 04:32:57 PM »

BTW, look at the picture on the site you just linked.  a little hunger is not always a bad thing.
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.....The greatest changes occur in their country without their cooperation. They are not even aware of precisely what has taken place. They suspect it; they have heard of the event by chance. More than that, they are unconcerned with the fortunes of their village, the safety of their streets, the fate of their church and its vestry. They think that such things have nothing to do with them, that they belong to a powerful stranger called “the government.” They enjoy these goods as tenants, without a sense of ownership, and never give a thought to how they might be improved.....

 Alexis de Tocqueville
iddee
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« Reply #45 on: December 20, 2010, 06:17:05 PM »

WOW, what a link to "prove" your point. 3 females and 1 male, easily grossing over a half ton. REAL STARVATION. Thanks for joining our side and proving it for us.

>>>>Tell us now, howd you get there? <<<<

By one simple rule. Learning the difference in "want" and "need", then telling myself "NO". I don't take weekend jaunts to the beach when my bills are past due.

My business partner and I made the exact same amount for 20 years. Even split all the way. We both had 2 kids about the same age.

Today I am retired with a comfortable life, he is broke, I will be leaving my kids with a nice size inheritance. He will be leaving his kids with funeral expenses and other debt.  WHHHHHHYYYYYY?Huh?
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"Listen to the mustn'ts, child. Listen to the don'ts. Listen to the shouldn'ts, the impossibles, the won'ts. Listen to the never haves, then listen close to me . . . Anything can happen, child. Anything can be"

*Shel Silverstein*
hardwood
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« Reply #46 on: December 20, 2010, 06:28:49 PM »

I have to take weekend jaunts to the beach when my bills are due...that's where 90% of my work is!

Scott
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"In the first place, we should insist that if the immigrant who comes here in good faith becomes an American and assimilates himself to us, he shall be treated on an exact equality with everyone else, for it is an outrage to discriminate against any such man because of creed, or birthplace, or origin. But this is predicated upon the person's becoming in every facet an American, and nothing but an American...There can be no divided allegiance here. Any man who says he is an American, but something else also, isn't an American at all. We have room for but one flag, the American flag...We have room for but one language here, and that is the English language...And we have room for but one sole loyalty and that is a loyalty to the American people."

Theodore Roosevelt 1907
iddee
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« Reply #47 on: December 20, 2010, 06:34:35 PM »

WOW, Hardwood, I bet a job like that just makes you pull your hair out.....

 evil evil evil lau lau lau
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"Listen to the mustn'ts, child. Listen to the don'ts. Listen to the shouldn'ts, the impossibles, the won'ts. Listen to the never haves, then listen close to me . . . Anything can happen, child. Anything can be"

*Shel Silverstein*
hardwood
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« Reply #48 on: December 20, 2010, 06:36:20 PM »

 lau

Let's just say that for some of us EVERY day is a bad hair day grin

Scott
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"In the first place, we should insist that if the immigrant who comes here in good faith becomes an American and assimilates himself to us, he shall be treated on an exact equality with everyone else, for it is an outrage to discriminate against any such man because of creed, or birthplace, or origin. But this is predicated upon the person's becoming in every facet an American, and nothing but an American...There can be no divided allegiance here. Any man who says he is an American, but something else also, isn't an American at all. We have room for but one flag, the American flag...We have room for but one language here, and that is the English language...And we have room for but one sole loyalty and that is a loyalty to the American people."

Theodore Roosevelt 1907
AllenF
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« Reply #49 on: December 20, 2010, 09:16:12 PM »

 lau lau lau lau
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hardwood
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« Reply #50 on: December 20, 2010, 11:58:33 PM »

Does the government hand out cash to the folically deprived?

Scott
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"In the first place, we should insist that if the immigrant who comes here in good faith becomes an American and assimilates himself to us, he shall be treated on an exact equality with everyone else, for it is an outrage to discriminate against any such man because of creed, or birthplace, or origin. But this is predicated upon the person's becoming in every facet an American, and nothing but an American...There can be no divided allegiance here. Any man who says he is an American, but something else also, isn't an American at all. We have room for but one flag, the American flag...We have room for but one language here, and that is the English language...And we have room for but one sole loyalty and that is a loyalty to the American people."

Theodore Roosevelt 1907
Acebird
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« Reply #51 on: December 21, 2010, 10:48:12 AM »

Quote
I have two farm tractors and two 15 KW PTO driven generators, one 30 KW PTO driven.


Neat toys for someone that has drawn a line between needs and wants. 

Hmmm, very judgmental this group.  Everyone that has suffered a misfortune must have deserved it.  Have I got that right?

Quote
we left active duty military so that my husband could get his degree. we went from an income that at least put food on the table, to an income of 0. we had to move, so we had no home and support. we also had two kids. it was a bit of a leap of faith . by the time he was done with school, we had massive student loan debt. it was the only debt other than a house that we have ever had.

Interesting story Kathy.  How did you leave the military without getting government subsidies and entitlements?  Medical, education grants, living expenses?  Borrowed money with 0 income?  Wow, this is really starting to look like a crap shoot that paid off.  Not everybody that buys a lottery ticket wins.

May I remind you that there are less jobs being created then there are graduates coming out of school.  Those graduates will be competing for jobs with all the unfortunate unemployed (those that are collecting and those that are not) that are forced to take entry level jobs.  That means some of these graduates will be SOL with big student loans.  They lost the crap shoot.  That’s OK it’s there fault.  They must not have learned the difference between needs and wants.

The ones at the bottom of the social status milking the system don’t bother me half as much as the ones at the top.  Those at the top must really have their act together when it comes to “needs” and “wants“.

I apologize to the forum for going so far off topic.  I don’t ever see the little guy getting the better end of the deal when it conflicts with the interest of the big guy.  I hope we can at least stop the big guy from destroying our earth that we all share.

Yesterday I got married for the third time.  I left my nest eggs with the other two.  My new wife has shown me so much more about what is important about life.  So I can’t leave my kids a sizeable inheritance but I can do my best to give them a better earth.  All I can do is do what I do.
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iddee
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« Reply #52 on: December 21, 2010, 11:33:54 AM »

Yes, wants can be had, but should come after needs. many folk get the order mixed up and go begging for their needs when the wants overwhelm their budgets.

For every one hard luck story that was non-preventable, there are a hundred preventable. Sure, you can find cases like you mention, but if they were the only ones out there, the local charities would have money left over and the government wouldn't need a welfare program.

Married for the third time? OK.
I will be celebrating my 43rd anniversary in march. Maybe attitude and compatibility with fellow humans have something to do with success, too.
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"Listen to the mustn'ts, child. Listen to the don'ts. Listen to the shouldn'ts, the impossibles, the won'ts. Listen to the never haves, then listen close to me . . . Anything can happen, child. Anything can be"

*Shel Silverstein*
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« Reply #53 on: December 21, 2010, 12:35:56 PM »

crap shoot paid off?  yes.  no crap shoot, no payoff.  it took a lot of time, and it took keeping the goal in mind.  i am neither a little guy nor a big guy.  i am an example of the American dream.  it's not a gift.  it's something you work toward. 

3 generations ago, my great grandmother came here at age 14. she had one suite case and was in search of family that she knew were here somewhere.  we suspect she lied about her age to be able too travel here alone smiley  she was a feisty lady up to her death at 101.  i knew her well.

her generation was poor.  her children did much better, but them came the depression and the war.  they lost everything and they started over.  the next generation, my parents, were ok. we were the last of our friends to get a TV.  it was very exciting, and i'm sure it was a sacrifice to buy it.  they were able to buy their home, and feed their children, but there was nothing left over.  they could not buy us cars or pay for a college education.  my generation has done better, but not because we had it given to us.  one of my brothers lived in his car for awhile.  now he makes a 6 figure income.  another of my brothers didn't get his degree until he was 40, but now he works for google and makes google money. 

it's all about choices.  bad things happen.  sometimes those bad things are not in our control.  how we deal with them is up to us.  if we sit around and whine about what others have, we will have nothing. 

you seem really focused on what others have.  if you continue to worry about the mean old rich, you will never be one. life is no harder than it ever was.  some of the hardships may be different, but i can tell you that it is far better right now than it was in the 70's and 80's.  it was better then, than during any of the depressions that have hit this country. 

you asked how people become successful.  we told you.  if you think that makes us judgmental about peoples choices, so be it.  bad choices will never lead to success.


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.....The greatest changes occur in their country without their cooperation. They are not even aware of precisely what has taken place. They suspect it; they have heard of the event by chance. More than that, they are unconcerned with the fortunes of their village, the safety of their streets, the fate of their church and its vestry. They think that such things have nothing to do with them, that they belong to a powerful stranger called “the government.” They enjoy these goods as tenants, without a sense of ownership, and never give a thought to how they might be improved.....

 Alexis de Tocqueville
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« Reply #54 on: December 21, 2010, 02:53:29 PM »


Tell us now, howd you get there?  There might be some misfortunate people that would like to hear your secrete.

I won't tell you what I secrete.  That's my business!!!   grin

I agree with the others, I didn't see any starving people on the website.  THAT is why I made a distinction between starvation and hunger.  We may have a few hungry people here in America (and with all the dieting going on I'm sure we have lots!) but we don't have starving people here.

My secret? My parents working very hard and teaching me the value of hard work, and me using that learning to go to college (I paid for it) and getting a job.  I starting out washing dishes.

They valued Christian (private) education enough to make huge sacrifices.  That means more to me than any gift they could have given.  My parents being there for me and now me making sure I'm there for my kids.  I did have a wonderful childhood, but didn't have a lot of "stuff" compared to what kids nowadays have.

They gave me boundaries, they said "NO", they spanked when necessary.

That is the #1 way to give a kid a future.  Daycare, public (free) school, free lunches will give a kid NOTHING if that child doesn't have a parent or somebody who cares giving them a future.

And it all started with my great grampas coming over from the old country (Netherlands) with nothing and grubbing in the dirt and passing a little more of that future on to their kids.

When kids have problems, it isn't because of lack of money, it is because there is an ADULT doing something wrong.
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Rick
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« Reply #55 on: December 21, 2010, 03:23:34 PM »

Everything Scads said.

 Im not THAT old-just 37 , however as a kid growing up my day started out bottle feeding 40-50 holstein dairy replacement heifers. Then I came home, ate breakfast, showered and got on a school bus at 7:15. I would have sworn then that my parents were slowly trying to kill me, but it taught me the essence of hard work. My dad has really never owed for anything. I can remember him paying the house off when I was very little and the 60 acres it sets on, he had paid for before he built the house. Too many people are trying to compete with the neighbors and live way beyond their means and I do not feel the tiniest bit sorry for them when it all comes crashing down. My wife used to make comments like how do they afford this or that and why cant we go get one until she realized that 99% of her friends were a cats hair from bankruptcy and eyeball deep in credit card debt. There is a ton of things that I would like to have i.e new truck, bigger house, and 100 hives, but what I have now is sufficient. My wife got to quizzing (being nosy) one of her friends when a shopping trip was being planned. Said friend is in 45,000 worth of credit card debt. The thought of it makes me nauseous. My dear old dad is the definition of a simple man and I love him dearly but he will never owe anyone for anything. He recently bought himself a new truck-the previous one he had driven for 15 years. He made one payment on it. Pulled out a check and paid for it on the spot. Is he wealthy by Forbes standards-absolutely not. He is just my definition of common sense. My dad is now 66- he married my mom when he was 18 and they are still together. Sorry...I'm rambling..what were we talking about small cell or something  grin
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kathyp
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« Reply #56 on: December 21, 2010, 04:49:40 PM »

this all brings up another point.  looks like most of us learned our work/success/survival lessons from our families.  what are the children of the welfare class learning?  do we wonder why welfare has become a lifestyle choice for so many?
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.....The greatest changes occur in their country without their cooperation. They are not even aware of precisely what has taken place. They suspect it; they have heard of the event by chance. More than that, they are unconcerned with the fortunes of their village, the safety of their streets, the fate of their church and its vestry. They think that such things have nothing to do with them, that they belong to a powerful stranger called “the government.” They enjoy these goods as tenants, without a sense of ownership, and never give a thought to how they might be improved.....

 Alexis de Tocqueville
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« Reply #57 on: December 21, 2010, 05:07:22 PM »

Their parents have taught them that anything is available by a handout. Cable TV, food, housing, medical care, everything..Forge this paper and get this, falsify this malady and obtain that. I arrested a guy one time for 4th offense DUI-the arrest report asks for place of employment and his answer was that he was on disability. So after I had already had to beat the brakes off of him to get him in cuffs and nursed my broken nose back into position I was kinda curious as to what his disability might be. You guessed it, he was drawing a check for being an alcoholic. We as taxpayers were paying this guy to get drunk every freaking weekend.
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lenape13
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« Reply #58 on: December 22, 2010, 07:22:48 AM »

this all brings up another point.  looks like most of us learned our work/success/survival lessons from our families.  what are the children of the welfare class learning?  do we wonder why welfare has become a lifestyle choice for so many?

I have family that milks the system.  They get public assistance, travel the circuit of churches looking for charity, and drive better vehicles than I drive (paid for by welfare, of course).  They laugh about it and say, "Why should we work?  They're paying us to stay home!"  People who make it a point to suckle at the public teat need to be put out in the wilderness and forgotten about.  They will either learn to take care of themselves or die off, a win-win situation for the rest of us.  Maybe a condition of living on welfare should be compulsary military service, in an actual combat zone.  Am I cruel and heartless?  I guess I am, but I was taught that if you want something, work for it.  If you are in serious need, that's what family is for.  It is NOT the government's job to take care of you.
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kathyp
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« Reply #59 on: December 22, 2010, 09:57:40 AM »

and all the people said?

 applause
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.....The greatest changes occur in their country without their cooperation. They are not even aware of precisely what has taken place. They suspect it; they have heard of the event by chance. More than that, they are unconcerned with the fortunes of their village, the safety of their streets, the fate of their church and its vestry. They think that such things have nothing to do with them, that they belong to a powerful stranger called “the government.” They enjoy these goods as tenants, without a sense of ownership, and never give a thought to how they might be improved.....

 Alexis de Tocqueville
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